Could Cecil Field reopen as a Navy Air Station?

[vicupstate]

The base was 30,000 acres and after closure, 17,000 acres were given to the private sector.  640 acres equals one square mile so they have almost 27 square miles to play with without touching the land the Navy would need...airstrips aside.

Langley Air Force Base here where I am is joint used by NASA.  Granted that is another government division but it proves dual usage is possible with no incident.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cool, thanks for the info. Viper.

Does anyone have a map of the base, something that would show the runway, the equestrian center, the Industrial park in relation to each other?

[Viper]

Add some area North of I-10 and you've got it.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?ovi=1...iy%2bmpY8dJrSli

[asonj23]

Maybe this will help everyone

From Google Maps - Its the large grey area..

Satellite Image

[FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER]

Does anyone have an idea what the wage level would be if the base is moved to Cecil?  The city is trying to raise per capita income and I would hope that this would. But, I really have no idea what a Navy Fighter pilot and the ancilliary staff make. 

The Aerospace industry is just now discovering Cecil, and it is an industry that has been targeted by the Econ. Dev. folks and pays well.  I hope that Jax will not have to forgo potential expansion of the Aerospace industry if the Navy returns. 

Also, Cecil was a finalist for two Mega industry deals, the Daimler-Chrysler plant (which was cancelled) and the EADS  project that went to Mobile.  Obviously the site has tremendous potential for a huge project.  Would a New Cecil Navy base be the equivalent, if the two are not compatible (which is highly likely IMO)?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Remember, if the Navy is again relocated/rebased at Cecil, it will bring millions or even billions of dollars into the economy. But also keep in mind, you not only have fighter/attack pilots in the Navy, but also lower waged people in the enlisted sector. The Pilots are officers and their pay range ranges from about 3,000 per month to the Captain who can make as much as 5,000 per month; so this would be huge. But you also have the blue collar staff, that is, the enlisted sector from E-1 to E-9 who can make as low as 1,100 per month and as high as careerists who might make an average of 3,000 or more per month.

To get an idea of what the various ranks/rates, etc. are making in the military click here to view a military payscale; remember, you have enlisted personnel E-1 through E-9 who are the workers; mid-grade officers of warrant rank; and the Commissioned Officers who are the college and academy graduates:

http://www.militarypay.info/army-pay-table.html

It says army in the URL, but when one branch of military gets a raise they all get a raise, that is, it is a MILITARY pay raise!

Hope this helps. If you have any more questions, just ask the 20 year naval veteran!

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

[rusthebuss]

Its not going to happen fellas. The jets need to be next to the WORLD's largest naval base for the carriers. You also forget that we have Warner in our corner too. All I have to say is good luck.

[Viper]

Its not going to happen fellas. The jets need to be next to the WORLD's largest naval base for the carriers. You also forget that we have Warner in our corner too. All I have to say is good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You also forget 2 things.

1. Where do those jets train? Yep, Florida.

2. Norfolk looks to be losing a carrier to Mayport soon and more than likey it will be in conjunction with the jets from Oceana.

We have Bush in our corner. Brother to the Commander-in-Chief.

[FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER]

Its not going to happen fellas. The jets need to be next to the WORLD's largest naval base for the carriers. You also forget that we have Warner in our corner too. All I have to say is good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe there is a "small" probability that it won't happen; but I also believe, if BRAC puts forth a persuasive effort in promoting their presentation, there's a huge possibility that it can and will happen!

There used to be two and at times three carriers at Mayport; and we never had problems getting our aircraft out to the carriers though we were 500+ miles from the largest carrier base. This is not a problem. There is no firm "need" for the jets to be next to the world's largest Naval Carrier Base (Norfolk Naval Base). I staunchly disagree!

FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER

[bobliocatt]

BRAC members to visit Cecil Friday

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/st.../15/daily2.html

[Viper]

This now their second visit and it wsn't originally planned. I think that shows just how serious BRAC is about the offer.

[thehappysmith]

I was surprised at first when I read about this in the paper, but considering what the Navy has meant to Jax in the past I'm no longer surprised they'd make the offer. What does surprise me now is that they continue to take the prospect seriously. The BRAC Commission is not the Batimore Colts; I don't think they'd be dropping by for visits and such if they weren't serious about moving the team.

BRAC is such a muddled, politicized mess, though, it's hard to guess what will ultimately happen.

1. John Warner is probably in his last term in the Senate; keeping the master jet base at Oceana would at least for a few years seem like a wonderful parting gift to the state. He's going to fight to his last breath to keep those jets.

2. The Navy will not be happy if BRAC tells them to move the jets to Cecil, and then the city announces that, oh by the way, you guys have to share space with Honda or whoever wants to build a big plant there. I do not imagine the BRAC commissioners would make the recommendation if they did not think the Navy would have control of the vast majority of the old base property. If the city is serious about bringing the master jet base here, then they have to accept the fact that it's going to be the master jet base and not much else.

Ultimately, no matter how hard Warner wants to fight for Oceana, I think Virginia Beach would be glad to see it go. So much the better, then, if the base lands in Jacksonville, which would be thrilled to have it. But Jacksonville--and the state, since ol' Jebby's involved--should make a few promises before this comes to pass, lest we end up with the same problems as Virginia Beach.

1. The state should expand Jennings State Forest right up to the border of the base and as far east toward Oakleaf and Brannan Field as they can find landowners willing to sell.

2. The city needs to make sure OLF Whitehouse is included in the deal.

3. The city should give serious consideration to buying a corridor between Whitehouse and Cecil and setting it aside to keep the airway clear of development.

4. People will build and buy homes directly under the flight path of an airport, and then later complain about how loud the airplanes are. This is what happened in Virginia Beach, and has already happened in Jax around Craig Muni. Jacksonville should prove it's serious about keeping the master jet base for the long term by accreting land around Cecil Field (and Whitehouse) and setting it aside for conservation so that development does not put Cecil in 20 years where Oceana is today. If the city does nothing (or, as is much more likely, if Clay County does nothing), the base is going to have to move again before the first Ensign to arrive at Cecil makes Captain.

[BosTech]

They should open Racetrack on Cecil Field,but use millitary equipment.Race down with tanks or Humvees,stuff like that.

I would go and watch that.

Imagine 10-15 tanks rumbling down field trying to win race. :-)

[asonj23]

I would watch too! Maybe they could be racing through mine fields!

Back to topic.

4. People will build and buy homes directly under the flight path of an airport, and then later complain about how loud the airplanes are. This is what happened in Virginia Beach, and has already happened in Jax around Craig Muni. Jacksonville should prove it's serious about keeping the master jet base for the long term by accreting land around Cecil Field (and Whitehouse) and setting it aside for conservation so that development does not put Cecil in 20 years where Oceana is today. If the city does nothing (or, as is much more likely, if Clay County does nothing), the base is going to have to move again before the first Ensign to arrive at Cecil makes Captain.

Another high point of setting aside surrounding land for conservation is that is sucks up more land on the westside cutting back on the rescent sprawl.

I just hope that if this were to come to fruition, the city will make sure that the current buisnesses will be able to comfortably share the land.

[vicupstate]

City Council & JAA pass resolutions

Sounds like ducks are getting put in a row.....

[jeafl]

With the Jaguars threatening to leave town, its only natural that the City of Jacksonville play the hooker with the Pentagon.

[rusthebuss]

With the Jaguars threatening to leave town, its only natural that the City of Jacksonville play the hooker with the Pentagon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why would the Jaguars leave town???? Maybe we could get them and you take Oceana!

[jeafl]

Why would the Jaguars leave town???? Maybe we could get them and you take Oceana!  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Since the Jaguars are not a winning team and not a profitable team and have taken millions upon millions upon millions of dolars at the public teat and still want to take more, now that the city's budget is so tight, why would the team not want to leave?

[Viper]

Because it is a winning team (9-7 last year), makes more money than most other teams (losses recently were pre tax and do not counterbalance the profits made the first 5 years), and Wayne has a vested interest in keeping them here.

[jeafl]

Because it is a winning team (9-7 last year), makes more money than most other teams (losses recently were pre tax and do not counterbalance the profits made the first 5 years), and Wayne has a vested interest in keeping them here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can't fill the Gator Bowl enough to avoid TV blackouts without covering up thousands of seats;

Had, what, 2 winning seasons in the 10+ years they've been here?

If the Jaguars are so profitable, why do they keep asking for the taxpayers to pay for upgrades to the stadium they use? The Jaguars want the property where the fairgrounds are. They want the city to take the property and force the fair to move. If the Jags are so profitable, why can they not buy land themselves at fair market value?

Almost 10 years ago Cecil Field was a master jet base in a location that had large quantities of excellent flying/training weather. But, yet the Pentagon closed the base. If the jets return now, what is to keep them from leaving again in the future? So why should the city spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get the jets backs?

[Viper]

Can't fill the Gator Bowl enough to avoid TV blackouts without covering up thousands of seats;

2nd smallest NFL market with one of the largest stadium capacities. Even larger cities have black out problems with smaller stadiums.

Had, what, 2 winning seasons in the 10+ years they've been here?

6 winning season, thank you, in 10 years.

If the Jaguars are so profitable, why do they keep asking for the taxpayers to pay for upgrades to the stadium they use?  The Jaguars want the property where the fairgrounds are.  They want the city to take the property and force the fair to move.  If the Jags are so profitable, why can they not buy land themselves at fair market value?

Stadium upgrades were for the SuperBowl. What are you talking about? The Jags want the fairgrounds property?

Almost 10 years ago Cecil Field was a master jet base in a location that had large quantities of excellent flying/training weather. But, yet the Pentagon closed the base.  If the jets return now, what is to keep them from leaving again in the future? So why should the city spend hundreds of millions of dollars to get the jets backs?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because an $850 million annual impact is worth a few hundred million to start with.

[vicupstate]

Former City Councilwoman questions value of Cecil returning

I have to say that I concur with the councilwoman's points. There seems to be a rush to judgement on this. Why didn't the state put up this kind of money for EADS and other major projects that have looked at Cecil.

I thought the city was trying to raise the per capita income. Will bring in a huge Navy contingent do that? It might be better to hold out for high-paying private sector jobs, from companies that will pay property taxes.

[jeafl]

2nd smallest NFL market with one of the largest stadium capacities.  Even larger cities have black out problems with smaller stadiums.

As often as the Jaguars do?

6 winning season, thank you, in 10 years.

And they

[Viper]

As often as the Jaguars do?

Some of they, yes. Look at Pheonix. Closing in on 3 million but packs in fewer than 40k sometimes. last year, we had an average of 69k.

And they

[scongro]

I know this is out of place, but I just couldn't help jumping in...

Many cities, especially Phoenix, Miami and Atlanta (Pre-Michael Vick) have had consistent problems with selling out their stadiums.

To be honest, I'd like to see more corporate sponsorship of the team. Last game, for example the turnout was quite good, especially for a preseason game. However the club seats were pretty empty. These aren't really designed for the average citizen, especially at $2000 per season.

It is all part of a cycle - If we get more companies to open up shop here in town, it could help out other aspects of the city, such as the Jaguars.

Oh, and by the way, Viper's stats are basically correct - we have actually been to the playoffs 4 times:

'96 - Beat Buffalo, Beat Denver, Lost to New England

'97 - Lost to Denver

'98 - Beat New England, lost to New York Jets

'99 - Beat Miami, lost to Tennessee

Nevertheless, the point has been made. Let's not forget that the Jaguars are by far, the most successful expansion team in NFL history - look at Tampa Bay:

1976: 0-14

1977: 2-12 (Won last two games of season)

1978: 5-11

1979: 10-6

Would you rather this? Personally, I think fans here would appreciate a 9-7 season a little more if it took us almost 2 years to win a game.

[asonj23]

^ Thanks for the info guys! This really puts things into perspecitve. I wonder why the city/Jags don't boast stats like this to everyone. Hearing your team is good only fuels the drive to support them.

BTW, shouldn't this be in the Jags thread?

[Viper]

It's kinda off topic but relating to the topic by way of a poster questioning our ability to keep major instituions.