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Raintree21

Types of Downtown Retail

Will new downtown retail be able to survive as only high end clothing or will it need to be a multi-item store (i.e. Target/Sears/Walmart- but not necessary those stores)  

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  1. 1. Will new downtown retail be able to survive as only high end clothing or will it need to be a multi-item store (i.e. Target/Sears/Walmart- but not necessary those stores)

    • Yes, high end clothing only will generate enough revenue
      3
    • No, the stores need diversity to survive
      25
    • There will be enough of both and they will all complement each other
      41


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Everyone keeps talking about how we're going to be getting lots of downtown retail, especially since all of these projects are being announced. I'm not really sure if there will be enough demand both in number of people shopping and number of people who can afford for clothing for "luxury" stores to open up like Ralph Lauren, Louis Vuitton, Prada, Gucci, Chanel, Armani, etc. I think there needs to be a mix of stores so that everyone can shop and support the area.

Read this article for an example of why I think there needs to be mixed stores.

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CC needs everything from Saks to Family Dollar IMO. It CANNOT be all high-end and be an interesting place to be. Thats what I loved about Philly. So much diversity in shopping options.

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Thats what I loved about Philly. So much diversity in shopping options.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here, here! That's one of the reasons I, too, loved Philadelphia (and, in fact, almost moved there). I was enamored enough with Wannamaker's/Lord & Taylor, but then I went across the street to Strawbridge's. Sigh..........we'll never see one of those again in the south. How I miss the downtown Atlanta Rich's and Davison's/Macy's...

Speaking of downtown retail, has anyone perchance been to Ottawa, Ontario, Canada? I went there on vacation last September, and one of the coolest parts was their downtown shopping mall, Rideau Centre. It has a Sears (former Eaton's) which is similar to your typical American mall Sears, and then it has The Hudson's Bay Company (referred to as "The Bay"), which reminded me a lot of the downtown Philly Strawbridge's. In fact, the whole mall reminded me of a 10- or 15-year newer version of The Gallery in Philly.

Then, if you go down the street a few blocks, you run into Zeller's, which is sort of like a Canadian K-Mart...well, maybe a bit smaller, but the same sort of discount theme. Naturally, there are other specialty shops down the street between Rideau and Zeller's as well (can't remember the name of the street, though......).

The city of Ottawa and Philadelphia have, in my view, what I would consider a fairly ideal retail situation downtown: You have higher-end specialty shops, mid-range department stores, and discount stores, all within a few blocks of each other.

Has anyone else noticed that the farther south you go, the more this ideal vision falls apart? The Hecht's in downtown DC - and whatever mall/center it's a part of -is the southernmost retail establishment of its type I can think of in a major city. In Atlanta, where I grew up, we now have.........not much. Peachtree Center, yes, but nothing I would go to *on purpose* to shop.

Unfortunatey, I don't think that the trend will ever be reversed. And perhaps trend is not the correct word to use here -- perhaps mindset is more appropriate. Why did I visit the Rich's and Davison's in downtown Atlanta only once? Because 1) my father hated going downtown, so we never went; and 2) there was a perfectly nice Rich's and Davison's 6 miles from our house versus 20.

Also unfortunately, as much as I'd like to see some major retail happenings in downtown Charlotte, I won't be holding my breath. Now, the redevelopment of Midtown Square is great, and when (if) it's finally built, I'll most likely stop in the Target there on the way home from work if I need something. But with 277 casting its shadow down, nobody really considers it part of center city anymore.

Attention, city of Charlotte: I think it would be a fairly smart idea to route the red or blue line trolley to Midtown Square once complete. Just a thought.

Well, I've rambled on more than enough for now. I never realized how strongly I could type about this subject! Please, please, please, let me be wrong about the retail revival in downtown Charlotte.

Matt

P.S. I just realized I've called it "downtown" Charlotte throughout my post.....please don't burn me at the stake! :whistling:

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An abbreviated summary of what's already inside of 277 for residents to use.

From what I can remember or am aware of, there are only 3 "convenience stores" inside of 277. There is one on College St. in between The Comedy Club and Bar Charlotte then two more on Graham St, one at Graham and 10th and another around Graham and 8th.

There is the new CVS and the old CVS in the 200 block of N. Tryon. An Eckerds in the 300 block of S. Tryon.

Harris Teeter has a small store at Fifth and Poplar.

Barber Shops: Fourth Ward Barber & Styling Millennium (516 N Graham St), Gene's Master Cuts (222 E 3rd St), Gentleman's Quarters Ymca Barbering & Hairstyling (400 E Morehead St), Kiser's Barber Shop (410 S Church St.)

Kostas International Hairstyling Salon, (100 N Tryon St), Sealey's Sanitary Barber Shop (113 S Brevard St), Superior Barber Shop (816 E 7th St)

Main Library: 310 N. Tryon St.

Churches: 1st Baptist (301 S. Davidson), 1st Presbyterian (200 W. Trade St), 1st United Presbyterian (201 E. 7th St), Cambodian Mission Church Of Charlotte (501 N. Tryon St), All Nations Church (301 S. Davidson St)

Post Office: McDowell St.

Sports Complexes: Bank of America Stadium (Panthers), Charlotte Arena (Bobcats)

Restaurants: too many to count

Bars and Clubs: too many to count

So in summary:

3 convenience stores

3 drug stores

1 grocery store

7 Barbershops

0 Beauty shops

1 Library

5 Churches

1 Post Office

2 Sports complexes

multiple bars, clubs, and restaurants

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there is also a convenience store on N Davidson in first ward, and a new one on Tryon across from Odell. There are also a few in Gateway and Overstreet.

I think Target will count as downtown retail when it comes. Although not technically in the downtown grid, it is close enough for government work.

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I went to Northlake Mall yesterday for a quick drive-by-- it's so close to uptown (12 minutes for me, door to door) that it'll make it a lot harder to get mall-type retailers uptown; they'll head to Northlake instead.

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What do you think will come first? With the growing population of residents, seems the first boom in retail would be service and convenience retail (dry cleaners, nail salons, express mail stores, pharmacy and the like) as opposed to true "destination" shopping. Won't people looking for destination shopping will still be pulled to the concentrations in SouthPark and other malls?

I figure if you live uptown, you'd be more than happy to shop locally for convenience and necessity items that will save you a trip outside the loop, but not necessarily for big-time shopping? I see something like a catch 22 - retailers want a concentration of residents to make their stores worth their time; but as a shopper, I want a concentration of retail to make a visit there worth my time.

I think it will take more than even a Saks and a few tag-a-longs to make uptown a shopping destination to rival what's available elsewhere. Or, their offerings need to be really unique.

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What do you think will come first? With the growing population of residents, seems the first boom in retail would be service and convenience retail (dry cleaners, nail salons, express mail stores, pharmacy and the like) as opposed to true "destination" shopping. Won't people looking for destination shopping will still be pulled to the concentrations in SouthPark and other malls?

I figure if you live uptown, you'd be more than happy to shop locally for convenience and necessity items that will save you a trip outside the loop, but not necessarily for big-time shopping? I see something like a catch 22 - retailers want a concentration of residents to make their stores worth their time; but as a shopper, I want a concentration of retail to make a visit there worth my time.

I think it will take more than even a Saks and a few tag-a-longs to make uptown a shopping destination to rival what's available elsewhere. Or, their offerings need to be really unique.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it will definately be convenience related stores such as CVS. Dry cleaners etc. Would be nice to see some locals open some "corner stores". For example pizza joints, hoagie shops, or maybe a flower shop.

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I'd really like to see a Border's or Barnes and Noble open shop in Uptown. That would give UT a boost. Of course you have to learn to crawl before you learn to walk, to start off I think maybe an ice cream shop would go great down there independent or chain, some pizza shops as mentioned above like NY style pizza, and your typical stores....wireless stores, shoe stores, clothing stores, and your typical DT eateries. Does uptown have a Starbucks perhaps?

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There are 2 Starbucks downtown already. One on Tryon near Trade and one at Gateway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's at least two more - inside B of A plaza lobby and Charlotte Plaza lobby.

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Ottawa, yes! What a great city, I never knew until I went there a couple of weeks ago. I actually have some pics from Ottawa to share, although they are kinda low-quality. But I think Charlotte could learn so many good things from that city. I hope that the Brevard Street corridor follows a plan like DT Ottawa with it's 10-20 story buildings and maybe a plaza similar to a central walkway plaza type thing in Ottawa. Here they are:

Overlooking Ottawa across the river:

004_NR.jpg

005_NR.jpg

Parliament Building:

006_NR.jpg

Nice church and some structure, maybe a museum:

007_NR.jpg

Looking down street in front of Parliament: Westin, Chateau Hotel, other Canadian governmental buildings:

008_NR.jpg

Chateau and WW1 memorial:

009_NR.jpg

And this is that plaza I was talking about, it is kind of a pedestrian walkway, this is what I would like along the trolley tracks and then the same thing except at street level along Brevard:

010_NR.jpg

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Well I'll be......someone else from around here has been to Ottawa! I loved it too. Did you happen to go up in the Parliament bell tower? Nice views.

And indeed, I agree with what you've said -- I'm a big fan of their development there. The plaza is nice.

Matt

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Yeah I though it was a museum, looks very nice. We went to the Canadian Museum of History across the river in Hull/Gatineau. It had a great design. Here is a pic:

Hull-1.jpg

The museum is the one on the left, I think the building on the right may be and auxiliary museum area or something.

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well, this is a good change. i think it would benefit charlotte tremendously to compare or "look up to" the likes of an ottawa versus...say, atlanta. ottawa looks beautiful, thanks for the input. now, if we could just get charlotte's planners and developers on this kind of track.

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wouldn't it be nice if there was a boutique Saks Fifth Avenue like the one's in Portland and Charleston, then maybe a Barney's Co-op, something like Gucci or Armani Xchange, then maybe some nice sit-down local restaurants, and nice local upscale stores much like there is at North Hills in Raleigh. It would combine some local flavor with upscale retail and middle-class retail. It would be modeled like Seattle or San Francisco's downtown retail center. Only this may never become reality. Sad aint it?

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Wait, one minute I'm reading about types of retail in downtown Charlotte and then the next I'm reading about Ottawa.  :blink:

Did two threads get combined by mistake?  :unsure:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I just showed some pics of my recent trip to Ottawa to compare the 2 cities and show certain types of planning I would like to see in Charlotte in the future along Brevard and the trolley line.

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