Types of Downtown Retail

[dubone]

Well, it's targetted in this case at a temporary population for an event. I agree though, it'd be great to have a permanent store. But to me, I don't begrudge them from trying to create a concept between spending tens of millions on a store that can't survive and not being there at all.

[CLTfanatic]

Any chance of say another apple store opening in the downtown area? You walk into the store at southpark and its ALWAYS packed to the point where you can't move.

[DigitalSky]

Probably not.. I think Apple stores only really favor malls in most cases in cities Charlotte's size.

[Charlotte_native]

Pop up retail has been going on for years. Two or three years ago Target opened up a temporary store in Rockefeller Center to celebrate Mizrahi's new women's clothing line. Numerous other stores have done this as well. It's just one way of testing a market.

Charlotte did this a few years back, I can't remember what year in the 90's, when the NCAA Basketball tournament was here. Downtown/uptown had no real bar or restaurant scene, so S. Tryon buildings that were then boarded up and other in the area were converted to temporary clubs, bars, restaurants. Lots of the places were a bit too "themed" and were definitely a bit cheezy (and made fun of for that fact) but the overall effect was pretty immediate. Restaurants and bars began to open downtown soon after. My guess was they saw how much money potentially could be made.

Lets hope some temporary retail will do the same.

[lupitachica]

I'd like to see your basic bodega - a place to get your newspaper, a pack of gum, a cup of coffee that doesn't cost 5 dollars and a bagel w/butter real quick before you step into your office to work. From the street there aren't any of these kinds of stores (or newstands). Storefronts would be nice (like how you can walk into Starbucks on Tryon from the street...except it needs to be like Aldos & 9 West, etc. Sometimes you want to shop for a quick pair of shoes or a cute top afterwork without having to go to a mall to do it.

[nyxmike]

I think if they build something like The Plaze in Kansas City (basically an outdoor mall with buildings/stores that front an existing street - not like Atlantic Station), it could work.

[Charlotte_native]

I'd like to see your basic bodega - a place to get your newspaper, a pack of gum, a cup of coffee that doesn't cost 5 dollars and a bagel w/butter real quick before you step into your office to work. From the street there aren't any of these kinds of stores (or newstands). Storefronts would be nice (like how you can walk into Starbucks on Tryon from the street...except it needs to be like Aldos & 9 West, etc. Sometimes you want to shop for a quick pair of shoes or a cute top afterwork without having to go to a mall to do it.

Center City Partners are currently working on trying to get newstands out on the streets. I hope it goes well also -- we need lots of street level stuff. Most of the lower level of the towers going up are pretty particular about what they allow in their retail space also, with just this kind of thing in mind. Spectrum, with 230 S. Tryon, is working on getting a bagel shop in one spot and a small sundries/wine shop in the other -- please please please!!!

[appatone]

I know that something like Pike's Market is way out of reach right now but I wouldn't mind seeing something that works similar to an Atherton Mill/ Black Lion concept where retailers can lease an indoor booth for a minimal cost in order to test the uptown market for a period of time, build a customer following of people that know the retailer is uptown and then transition into a full scale street facing retail space. However I wouldn't want it to be all home decor and antiques like Atherton or Black Lion. Also, I would like for the city to actively target local retailers and some how give them some sort of incentive to locate uptown. People like the Sloan shoes stores and Lotus would do well as I feel that female Uptown workers are more likely to make impulse purchases based on window displays spotted on a lunch break.

I didn't say this earlier when we were talking about Saks Uptown but I think Saks would do well Uptown. Many upscale clothiers, especially those selling upscale men's suits would do well with a small Uptown location because the men buying designer suits aren't buying them in the store in many cases, instead they have a fitter come to their office, measure them and then pick the suit up or have it delivered later. ALso, with all of the upscale condos going in Uptown a retailer like saks would offer the same services for condo dwellers and even business travelers at the Ritz and Westin.

[nyxmike]

Under the Epicentre post, someone found an article with more retailers mentioned, including "fashion-forward, Charlotte-based Monet Shoes," which is a start. I agree, I would like to see Lotus and Sloan Uptown.

[dubone]

I think a perfect place for that kind of semi-pernanent kiosk retail would be on Trade Street in front of the Omni. The side walk is extremely wide, but the foot traffic isn't as much. It would be right near the Square, and would soften the cold solid walls of the buildings.

With local news hinting that department stores might come downtown, and with Brevard Street set to receive Tryon-style pedestrian infrastructure in conjunction with the new Nascar Hall of Fame, I am definitely hoping that Saks and Belk will be building downtown soon.

It is one thing if people weren't optimistic about the arena, but the reality is it has has 1 million visitors in half a year. The Nascar Hall of Fame will probably be between .5 and 1 million visitors a year. Then tie in the new LRT stations that will likely have 10k-20k riders per day to stations. I have written it in other threads, but I really think that that the best location for department stores would be on the NCRR/CSX block between the BellSouth office building and the Charlotte Transit Center. http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=...9&scene=1905461

The location has a significant number of positives. It is:

- Along the new Brevard Street pedestrian corridor

- Across the street from historic store fronts

- Next to 3rd Street LRT station

- Next to the bus station

- Next to Epicenter entertainment retail

- Halfblock from the Overstreet Mall in Charlotte Plaza, with potential for a connection

- 1 block from the NHOF

- 1 block from the Arena

- 1 block from Wachovia HQ

- 1 block from the Ritz

- 2 blocks from the Square

- 2 blocks from Tryon

- 2 blocks from the government center

Here is a variation on what could be done. Atlrvr suggests a walkway with small stored through the center of the site. The floorplates would be roughly half the size of Belk South Park, which is roughly the same size footprint as a downtown block.

[DigitalSky]

i thought Saks would work best in the old Montaldo's

[dubone]

Yeah, maybe so, but there are also some constraints to that site, including ease of deliveries. My thinking is that they'd probably want to be near Belk, so that they can feed off eachother. You guys would know better than I would, though, on whether that really happens.

Who knows, though, maybe Saks could go to the Old Montaldos and Belk could take up the whole block. That way they could have floorplates just like most of their other floors. Belk just made all that money from their land sold to the city for the arena. They could very readily buy that block of land and build their own store there. They could potentially even build it to grow, such only building a floor now, but have structural support to add stories later as the uptown retail market grows.

I just cannot imagine how Belk is NOT downtown. They could easily make more money than they do at Eastland and other small towns.

[StevenRocks]

I just cannot imagine how Belk is NOT downtown. They could easily make more money than they do at Eastland and other small towns.

I havent hard of a new downtown Belk strore anywhere since the 1960s.

[DigitalSky]

I havent hard of a new downtown Belk strore anywhere since the 1960s.

Well Charlotte's Belk was downtown until what... 1988 or 1989? And i think Hudson-Belk in Raleigh was downtown into the mid 90s. And I know that the Matthews Belk in downtown Belmont, NC was there way into the late 90s if not the early 00s.

[NCMike1981]

I believe the Raleigh one closed in either Jan of '95 or '96...closed right after x-mas...shame it couldn't have held on for another 10 yrs....

[atlrvr]

Did the downtown Charlotte Belk store close on its own accord or did it close because BofA wanted the site for their tower?

[dubone]

I havent hard of a new downtown Belk strore anywhere since the 1960s.

Yeah, I'm sure that is the case. My point in that quote was that I believe there is more money to be made by Belk in downtown Charlotte than in many malls and stripmalls where they are currently located in small towns and smaller cities throughout the state. There is definitely more money to be made in the next 20 years in downtown Charlotte than in Eastland Mall.

It might be that they wouldn't accept the return on investment that an old store is current making in their decisions for a new store.

[StevenRocks]

I think Belk will eventually do a store Uptown. My rationale for saying what I said was that Belk has not erected a new downtown store anywhere since the '60s.

[DigitalSky]

oh.. erected... ok makes sense.

[mallguy]

No new downtown Belk stores built since the 1960s? Perhaps no new full-line Belk stores since then, but the uptown Belk Express in BofA Plaza opened in '93; it's not a full-line store but at least it's a Belk.

[DigitalSky]

yeah.. Belk express doesn't really count. lol

[NCMike1981]

Is a Belk Express kinda like a Roses Express but dept store style?

[StevenRocks]

Is a Belk Express kinda like a Roses Express but dept store style?

Seriously, Belk Express is pretty much just cosmetics, fragrances and accessories. Cameron Village in Raleigh has one as well.

[mallguy]

Belk Express is handy for gift certificates on days when you have to bring a gift to work!

Downtown department stores just don't do well in most cities, which is disappointing to me since I like them. The small one in Greenville, SC seems to do very well because downtown as a whole attracts plenty of people who come for shopping and entertainment and because it's an interesting place to shop that doesn't have comparable competition in malls; office workers there seem to be only a small part of the pool of shoppers. Thus in Charlotte, where very few people shop downtown other than office workers, I don't see a department store working, especially one that is also in a mall, unless its a Saks or something very high-end that appeals to center-city office workers, who seem to be pretty affluent.

[StevenRocks]

The key to downtown department stores suviving is having the right merchandise mix. Suburban style assortments don't work downtown, but yet most department stores want to offer them because they don't like thinking outside the mall.