Why don't more people use RIPTA?

[Recchia]

Commuter rails going into south county help to make ever sprawling suburban development more feasible.  And we'll pay millions to build that for all the rich people running as fast as they can as far away as they can from poor people in the inner city.  But god forbid we should increase funding to make RIPTA more viable for the poor people that depend on it every day to get around. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the other hand, if you can focus the growth that will occur in those towns anyway around the new commuter rail stops, then you can create town centers that can become urban in time and densify existing sprawl to make it more urban. It's not like the areas it is going to are in the middle of nowhere, they have all already sprawled, and commuter rail can help to densify them to acceptable urban levels. Warwick is almost completely built out, so now the only way it can grow is through infill and densification. Eastern Cranston is the same (and in fact much more so) as is eastern East Greenwich and most of northern North Kingstown. All these areas are the ones that will be getting commuter rail stops.

There seems to be a misconception that poor people in this state only live in Providence (or Pawtucket, CF too). There are poor people all over the state. As I said before, drive through Yorktown in North Kingstown and neighborhoods in West Warwick, Warwick and Newport. There are poor there too. And the areas around the proposed commuter rail stops are in now way wealthy, minus East Greenwich. Park Ave and Wellington in Cranston, TF Green in Warwick, and even parts around Wickford Junction in NK, none of these are anywhere near wealthy.

[runturtlerun]

I

[Recchia]

I

[runawayjim]

at one time, i believe people moved away from the city because there was a train line. in the case of a city like providence, i don't think that holds true. it's still a very small, easily driveable city. people don't mind sitting in traffic everyday because they get to drive their cars. you're not going to urbanize any part of south county by putting in train stations. you might end up making parts of cranston and warwick nicer around the train stations (see the metro north stations in CT, although it didn't make bridgeport or new haven better, at least not around the station itself).

most of south county is pretty rural. the area around URI especially. while there's parts that have some density, most is very rural.

on the subject of east greenwich... i would not call it a rural town, it's suburban, a suburb of warwick (yes, warwick is a city... the second largest city in the state).

[Recchia]

at one time, i believe people moved away from the city because there was a train line.  in the case of a city like providence, i don't think that holds true.  it's still a very small, easily driveable city.  people don't mind sitting in traffic everyday because they get to drive their cars.  you're not going to urbanize any part of south county by putting in train stations.  you might end up making parts of cranston and warwick nicer around the train stations (see the metro north stations in CT, although it didn't make bridgeport or new haven better, at least not around the station itself).

most of south county is pretty rural.  the area around URI especially.  while there's parts that have some density, most is very rural.

on the subject of east greenwich... i would not call it a rural town, it's suburban, a suburb of warwick (yes, warwick is a city... the second largest city in the state).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The only part of South County that could stand some urbanization would be northern North Kingstown, since there are some pocket urban streets (there really are). EG, Warwick and Cranston though could and will be made nicer, and denser. Kingston needs to stay rural, and I beleive it will. Areas south of Wickford Junction are largely protected by groundwater overlay districts and land trusts, so they should do fine as well. Later on I'm gonna draw up a map...

[Garris]

On the other hand, if you can focus the growth that will occur in those towns anyway around the new commuter rail stops, then you can create town centers that can become urban in time and densify existing sprawl to make it more urban.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This will only happen if the planning is excellent. As was pointed out, these stations usually have huge parking lots, and if those parking lots are just plopped next to the station, nothing will "urbanize" around these areas.

One town near where I grew up was wishing for a downtown renaissance with more MetroNorth station use, and all that happened is that people parked in the lot, went to their train, and never saw or passed the downtown at all.

One town planner later said they should have had parking garages located in the downtown itself, so that commuters had to walk past one or two blocks of retail frontage to and from their parking and the station. Now that would have been smart, and would have spurred development (those garages could have been mixed use). As it is, another half-century planning mistake made, and their downtown will still be depressed for another 50 years...

Will we make the same mistake? Probably. To be honest, I've never seen a train station alone turn around anything in a municipality. How much has grown up around Providence Station or Union Station in New Haven?

- Garris

[Recchia]

Will we make the same mistake?  Probably.  To be honest, I've never seen a train station alone turn around anything in a municipality.  How much has grown up around Providence Station or Union Station in New Haven? 

- Garris

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm, the station in Providence spurred Avalon, and it can be argued Jefferson too, since every morning there is a steady stream of workers walking to the station through the mall underpass. And how about Waterplace? Proximity to the station is undoubtedly a thing to advertise with that.

Undoubtedly, the stations in Wickford Junction and possibly Warwick (judging from whats gone up so far around the Warwick site) will be very park and ride-ish. The East Greenwich and Cranston ones have potential though. EG already did a TOD planning study for its site, and it includes mixed uses and townhouse/condo development all around the station. Cranston is looking to redevelop its entire potential station area with TOD as well. It would work well in both places too, since there is adjacent urban development in both.

[Cotuit]

Commuter rail has turned around Brockton, that's why New Bedford and Fall River are so eager for it.

[Recchia]

Well I'm back at school now, and I've been riding around the CDTA (Albany, NY) buses everywhere, and I must say I am quite impressed with all of them. Reasons why they are better than RIPTA:

1) They all are "kneeling" buses with wide front doors and rear exit doors so handicapped accessiblity is very good and very quick.

2)They must have GPS or something, because theres a ticker at the front of every bus that every passenger can see that shows the name of each intersection a few hundred feet before it, so you can see your stop and pull the cord in time. Very cool.

3)They have a "downtown circulator" route.

4) The bus stops list the route numbers of the buses that serve them.

5) 15 minute headways on many routes

6)They are habitually on time, and I mean I've never ever waited more than four or five minutes for a late one.

7)The fare is only a dollar, and students ride free on any route, so I get free transportation all around the Capital District. No more driving my car anywhere but back to RI.

8) One of the many buses that serves my school runs til 1:30am, so I can take it down to the bar and take it back when I'm drunk and not ever have to worry about drunk driving

All simple things that many people have already mentioned RIPTA would do.

[runturtlerun]

Interesting stuff about Albany. I looked up a couple of quick facts to try to assess the Albany vs. Rhode Island systems. Here are the stats I've come up with: Albany has a fleet of 275 buses (vs. RIPTA's 240, that number may be outdated); the CDTA's budget is $56.7 million (vs. RIPTA's $82.6 million), and the 2000 census population of Albany is 95,658 (vs. Providence

[Recchia]

Interesting stuff about Albany.  I looked up a couple of quick facts to try to assess the Albany vs. Rhode Island systems.  Here are the stats I've come up with: Albany has a fleet of 275 buses (vs. RIPTA's 240, that number may be outdated); the CDTA's budget is $56.7 million (vs. RIPTA's $82.6 million), and the 2000 census population of Albany is 95,658 (vs. Providence

[Frankie811]

http://rhodeisland.cox.net/cci/newslocal/l...rticleId=918230

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/opinion/editorials/co...a.17f488a3.html

[mr2448]

So CDTA has more buses operating on a much smaller budget than RIPTA?  And they seem (although this is just my opinion based on my experiences) to operate much more efficiently....  I wonder what their secret is...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The CDTA does something I have never seen anywhere before, except in WW 2 photos; at 4 pm there is a bus for each route lined up around the downtown state office buildings. This allows state workers a direct ride home without the normal transferring or walking to the downtown bus interchange area(like Kennedy Plaza). These buses are well used and quickly gets one home after work. A great idea not being used to its full extent around R.I. Hospital. This could also be done at the Cranston state office complex. It is too bad state offices are now decentralized.

One thing that separates Providence's bus usage, or lack of, from other metros is the fact the metro area crosses state lines. Amtrak, MBTA and Peter Pan are the only cross border transportation commuters can use. I think Gatra has a thru line from Taunton to Providence, but that is it! RI and MA should discuss more thru local service to Fall River, Seekonk-Rehobeth, the Attleboros-Plainville and even north to Blackstone and Bellingham. Only one half of the metro area is being served by thru public transportation.

As a RR lover, I would enjoy seeing frequent Budd car (do we really need 8 car train sets)service between Attleboro(maybe extended to Taunton) and Wickford-Quonset. Would 20 minute headways make this route popular?

Mark

[Recchia]

Very interesting...I've been clamoring about RIPTA's horrible service to RI state offices for a while now. There is absolutely nothing to coax RI state employees to get onto the bus, since parking is plentiful, free and expected. And why on earth the DOT can't offer its own employees Express Travel discounted RIPTIKs or rideshare, etc. is beyond me, since the DOT FUNDS the program in the first place...

I am continually becoming more impressed with the CDTA, as they do simple things to make their service better. Now they're even studying a possible BRT line on the route 5 (Central Avenue) corridor. This street is almost exactly like RI's Route 2, very dense and urban at is beginning, but then becoming more "big boxy" the farther out you get. Hopefully RIPTA will look into this possibility...

[Cotuit]

The thing I took from looking at your Empire State Plaza pics was the lack of surface parking. The Capitol Area in Providence should put it's parking underground and centralize state office from Cranston and elsewhere into new buildings on top of the below ground parking. State Employees should also have to pay for parking (the rest of the employees in Providence have to pay for parking, why am I paying the state employees to park, it's not like they need it as an incentive to get people to work for the state), and obviously DOT should be working hard to get state workers to use RIPTA. One of RIPTAs problems is that it is not seen as a valid option for white collar workers (typical classism and racism), the state should be doing more to make it's employees an example of how RIPTA can and should be an option for all Rhode Islanders.

[Frankie811]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gatra gets a subsidy from the State of Massachusetts to provide service to Providence, otherwise we would never have it since almost no one uses it. The buses are always empty. Rehobeth is to large an rural area to serve other than Rt 44. GATRA serves the Tauton - Attleboro area with local service. RIPTA of course cannot serve MA because of some state regulations ( MA? RI?). GATRA service has approval though. Fare - $ 3.00 one way http://www.gatra.org/

[Recchia]

The thing I took from looking at your Empire State Plaza pics was the lack of surface parking. The Capitol Area in Providence should put it's parking underground and centralize state office from Cranston and elsewhere into new buildings on top of the below ground parking. State Employees should also have to pay for parking (the rest of the employees in Providence have to pay for parking, why am I paying the state employees to park, it's not like they need it as an incentive to get people to work for the state), and obviously DOT should be working hard to get state workers to use RIPTA. One of RIPTAs problems is that it is not seen as a valid option for white collar workers (typical classism and racism), the state should be doing more to make it's employees an example of how RIPTA can and should be an option for all Rhode Islanders.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, yes, and yes. It's ridiculous. Anybody, including interns, can park for free if they want on Capitol Hill. There is an underground garage that you can pay 15 dollars every two weeks to park in every day, but that's it. Not to mention that the parking lots are all overcrowded by the end of the day, with people parked on the sidewalk, people blocking others in, along curbs, on grass, etc., its ugly. Transit isn't even looked at as an option one bit for any state employee...

[Frankie811]

Student's causing trouble in Kennedy Plaza. Please be careful down there everyone. There's suppose to be a lot of cops down there today.

http://www.projo.com/metro/content/projo_2...t8.316d4a3.html

[Frankie811]

http://www.projo.com/metro/content/projo_2...s9.82b2d55.html

[mr2448]

http://www.projo.com/metro/content/projo_2...s9.82b2d55.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have never been a supporter of Kennedy Plaza being used as the total transfer point for RIPTA. It is counter productive to rapid through service in downtown Providence and does not allow a transfer pax a chance to walk through city to CATCH A BUS. I have always felt lines should be matched up and through service should be provided. They now do that with Douglas-Hartford, Eddy-Hope-Benefit, Smith-Cranston, etc. Great idea, but there is no need for a multi-minute stop over at Kennedy Plaza for all routes. It allows students to congregate for all schools in one area. Bad idea.

Years ago Hope students went to the Hope bus at Westminster and Dorrance. Mt. Pleasant under the old parking lot in front of Union Station(skating rink). Classical and Central at Weybosset or Washington. These students were separated from each other and the same type of friction was possible then(50's &60's) as it is now. Teenagers have the same type hormones now as they had then and if you think the 30's and 40's were different, dream on. There were, have been and will always be rivalries. Enough of that.

Get rid of Kennedy Plaza as a transfer point, disperse the students throughout the city. Let the layovers go back to the end of the route and get the commuters quickly out of the city.

Mark

[pdxstreetcar]

I went to Albany in June and actually thought the bus system was terrible. I was waiting at a bus stop by a major hospital about a mile north of downtown served by 3 bus lines and the next bus to come by was in 50 minutes so I walked.

Today at Kennedy Plaza I saw at least 10 police cars, 2 mounted police and tons of police officers..hopefully this will cut down on the fighting at KP. Also the trolley stop at KP is very poorly designed since most trolleys have to loop around the block and backtrack.

[Recchia]

RIPTA to hold public meetings about increasing trolley headways from 15 to 20 minutes, thus making them even more useless.... Wasn't the original point of the trolleys to be frequent service lines, you know, ones where you don't really have to look up the schedule cause it would be there soon no matter when you arrived?

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...20.dddf4df.html

[mr2448]

RIPTA to hold public meetings about increasing trolley headways from 15 to 20 minutes, thus making them even more useless....  Wasn't the original point of the trolleys to be frequent service lines, you know, ones where you don't really have to look up the schedule cause it would be there soon no matter when you arrived?

http://www.projo.com/news/content/projo_20...20.dddf4df.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These meetings will take place Oct 4th and I will definitely be there, probably in the evening. You are correct that frequent 12-15 minute service was to be the available. It will be interesting to see if business people get involved. I loved the director's quote " passengers would STAND a 5 minute increase". And stand, and stand, if you get what I mean? Now amn extra 5 minutes, tomorrow ???

Mark

[Recchia]

Wait a minute, this is on RIPTA's website:

SCHEDULE & SERVICE

The Providence LINK Green Line runs every 20 minutes during the following hours:

Monday - Friday 6:30am - 9:00pm

Saturday 8:00am - 11:00pm

Sunday 11:00am - 6:30pm

The Providence LINK Gold Line runs every 20 minutes during the following hours:

Monday - Friday 6:30am - 7:00pm

Saturday 8:30am - 6:30pm

Sunday 11:00am - 6:30pm

So what's the deal here?? They gonna be every 25 minutes now, or did RIPTA prematurely update their website?