Medical Mile/Michigan Street Developments

[GRFuture]

And I'm guessing RDV and Christman probably would have been happier with the look, especially since I believe they still have an entire tower to still lease out (?)

I am not positive about this but I believe that the majority of the space has been spoken for in all of the towers. With the majority of the old Towers bldg tenants moving into these spaces, the hotel, and many new tenants they are well on their way to being full.

[beergeek]

But people working here should definitely be encouraged to use public transit, live downtown, or find some other way to get to work thereby reducing the number of parking spaces required.

As I just said in another thread, most employees do NOT park on-site. Two questions for you:

1 - Why should SH employees not be "allowed" to park on-site whereas all the other businesses downtown have their own garage (or an agreement with a nearby garage)? What about St. Mary's? Bridgewater? The 5/3 building (whatever it's called)? Because it's a business that supports a large number of visitors, the employees have to find a way to get to work?

2 - It's a recruitment/retainment issue as well. Selfishly, SH would like to steal all the best nurses from Metro, St Mary's, etc. A lot of people are put off instantly by the off-site parking. Even if it's not in competition with the other GR hospitals, but say with Muskegon, or Holland. In a country already short 1mil nurses, it's a double-edged sword to do something good for the environment/city while also hurting your ability to acquire top-notch talent (or any talent with a license as the case may be).

[Rizzo]

I don't understand why there is a sense of entitlement to parking. I think you should be allowed to be able to find a space, but that's as far as it should go. If you base your decision on where to work on parking what can you say to those folks -- its downtown? If space and parking are premiums that inhibit your ability to attract quality talent -- why build downtown?

Edited April 9, 2007 by Rizzo

[GRDadof3]

And I'm guessing RDV and Christman probably would have been happier with the look, especially since I believe they still have an entire tower to still lease out (?)

I am not positive about this but I believe that the majority of the space has been spoken for in all of the towers. With the majority of the old Towers bldg tenants moving into these spaces, the hotel, and many new tenants they are well on their way to being full.

I didn't think the hotel had been confirmed yet, only rumored.

Anyway, here's where I stand:

- The parking level should have looked more like the rest of the building, giving the impression that it is part of the building more (using glass, fewer metal louvers, more three dimensional features, whatever). Right now it obviously looks like parking, and will look that way for the rest of most of our lives

- The ground floor of every new structure in downtown (yes including the hill) should be covered under this, either retail uses on the ground floor or pedestrian friendly features on the "front and side" of the structure. If parking is on the ground floor, it should look like a building not like a parking deck, and the "screening" section in the code should be changed accordingly. I don't see too many arguments changing my opinion on this.

- I don't believe retail on the ground floor would have worked on that hillside

- I really don't see how they could have reduced the parking, and if they had, they probably would have just dug shallower into the ground and the parking deck would have still looked the same at ground floor

- I think it's difficult to factor in a transit stop when you don't know what kind of transit system might be in place in 10 - 20 years. If we already had a transit system with particular vehicles running (other than buses), then it's much easier to design in transit-oriented features. Perhaps they should have built a special bus stop lane?

- Strictly adhering to "Form following function" should be reserved for structures outside of the city center, in industrial parks

- A better mass transit system then shuttle buses from remote parking lots in strange neighborhoods might help with the employee parking issues, but there seems to be very little momentum for mass transit at the city level currently.

[designcritic]

Changing subjects, do we know where the tunnel from Lemmen Holton is connecting to the main hospital? What building & at what level?

The tunnel is three parking levels below the Cancer Pavilion (about the midpoint of the building in the east/west direction) and will connect to the Children's Hospital. It will not be for public use.

[beergeek]

I don't understand why there is a sense of entitlement to parking. I think you should be allowed to be able to find a space, but that's as far as it should go. If you base your decision on where to work on parking what can you say to those folks -- its downtown? If space and parking are premiums that inhibit your ability to attract quality talent -- why build downtown?

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? ;-) The original site was built in the late 1800s IIRC - parking wasn't an issue then. And if SH up and left like Metro, this forum would be on fire with "why ditch downtown" complaints. >14000 employees...all paying city taxes...you want to loose that? You can't have it both ways. And if you think SH should have just left it up to employees to fight with GRCC/GVSU/etc for parking in the area...well, we never would be having this discussion, because it never would have grown to the size it is now. People are the scarcest resource in healthcare right now...not CT scanners or PET machines. If you can't attract top-notch talent, you don't have a destination hospital, which in turn means you don't have a new cancer center/towers complex/children's hospital. I'm not saying I agree with it all, and I agree that the exterior c/should have been done better...but thinking that all those employees are just going to "find" a parking space is naive.

[FilmMaker]

- I think it's difficult to factor in a transit stop when you don't know what kind of transit system might be in place in 10 - 20 years. If we already had a transit system with particular vehicles running (other than buses), then it's much easier to design in transit-oriented features. Perhaps they should have built a special bus stop lane?

- A better mass transit system then shuttle buses from remote parking lots in strange neighborhoods might help with the employee parking issues, but there seems to be very little momentum for mass transit at the city level currently.

Designing to accommodate future transit would have been as simple as leaving some sort of space for it: could have been as easy as an extra lane on Michigan or a small open space (greenery for now, transit stop in the future). The fact that this site now has absolutely NO easy way to accommodate any sort of transit is an abomination in my humble opinion.

As for shuttle busses from remote lots, I agree it is probably an employee recruitment and retention issue - but I honestly don't think it will take that long for skyrocketing gas prices and the lack of convenient parking to change public perceptions and habits - or at least the habits of the 15,000 workers on the hill.

[Rizzo]

^I'm not sure who it was, but someone remarked that ITP approached the stake holders on the Hill about transit and they were less than thrilled...

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? ;-) The original site was built in the late 1800s IIRC - parking wasn't an issue then. And if SH up and left like Metro, this forum would be on fire with "why ditch downtown" complaints. >14000 employees...all paying city taxes...you want to loose that? You can't have it both ways. And if you think SH should have just left it up to employees to fight with GRCC/GVSU/etc for parking in the area...well, we never would be having this discussion, because it never would have grown to the size it is now. People are the scarcest resource in healthcare right now...not CT scanners or PET machines. If you can't attract top-notch talent, you don't have a destination hospital, which in turn means you don't have a new cancer center/towers complex/children's hospital. I'm not saying I agree with it all, and I agree that the exterior c/should have been done better...but thinking that all those employees are just going to "find" a parking space is naive.

I don't understand, are you trying to make this conversation into a beggars can't be choosers argument? Don't mistake my pedestal talk for being unappreciative, though. I'm not exactly begging for anything. I simply am speaking on the notion that everyone deserves vehicle space downtown. Although, I could have said initially that I don't really blame folks for wanting the space to park their vehicles -- The Rapid isn't exactly great for commuting (that needs to change.) If there was a system of moving people into downtown from points outside the core (that appealed to the commuter) I could see parking becoming less of an issue. I could have been less polarized.

Edited April 9, 2007 by Rizzo

[Veloise]

The RenCen in Detroit was constructed in the late 70's with a concrete bunker appearance. 25 years later that was modified to be more street-level-friendly and welcoming.

I'm sure there's a price tag on a website somewhere.

[beergeek]

If there was a system of moving people into downtown from points outside the core (that appealed to the commuter) I could see parking becoming less of an issue.

Absolutely. But what until then? And therein lies the crux of our problem...

[AlexPKeaton]

1 - Why should SH employees not be "allowed" to park on-site whereas all the other businesses downtown have their own garage (or an agreement with a nearby garage)? What about St. Mary's? Bridgewater? The 5/3 building (whatever it's called)? Because it's a business that supports a large number of visitors, the employees have to find a way to get to work?

It's not so much a matter of being allowed to park there, but whether there is enough space, and if so at what cost. Many employers will subsidize the cost of downtown parking for employees, but would also subsidize the cost of mass transit. Does Spectrum do this or is parking just factored into your salary? What about car pooling?

My brother works for the IRS and they give him a transit allowance of some sort. I think it's around $150/month. Of course Washington has a much more extensive transit system than we have.

2 - It's a recruitment/retainment issue as well. Selfishly, SH would like to steal all the best nurses from Metro, St Mary's, etc. A lot of people are put off instantly by the off-site parking. Even if it's not in competition with the other GR hospitals, but say with Muskegon, or Holland. In a country already short 1mil nurses, it's a double-edged sword to do something good for the environment/city while also hurting your ability to acquire top-notch talent (or any talent with a license as the case may be).

How's the pay? I'm sure money is a much greater motivator than parking in attracting talent.

As for the future transit plan, I wouldn't be too worried that the project doesn't include any dedicated space to it. Being right next to the freeway I'm sure some sort of transit stop could be worked in either elevated over the freeway or right beside it.

[GRDadof3]

Is it lonely up there on your pedestal? ;-) The original site was built in the late 1800s IIRC - parking wasn't an issue then. And if SH up and left like Metro, this forum would be on fire with "why ditch downtown" complaints. >14000 employees...all paying city taxes...you want to loose that? You can't have it both ways. And if you think SH should have just left it up to employees to fight with GRCC/GVSU/etc for parking in the area...well, we never would be having this discussion, because it never would have grown to the size it is now. People are the scarcest resource in healthcare right now...not CT scanners or PET machines. If you can't attract top-notch talent, you don't have a destination hospital, which in turn means you don't have a new cancer center/towers complex/children's hospital. I'm not saying I agree with it all, and I agree that the exterior c/should have been done better...but thinking that all those employees are just going to "find" a parking space is naive.

Let's try to keep this civil. Even with "wink wink nod nod" thrown in, statements can be misconstrued. I've already edited comments in this thread based on complaints.

So far I'd say the medical towers project has had it pretty easy. No complaints about the design, sidewalks, or street level facades from any of the media, including the Press, the business journal, any of the TV stations, any of the alternative media outlets, anyone but us here. I'm sure they can take a few digs from us.

The RenCen in Detroit was constructed in the late 70's with a concrete bunker appearance. 25 years later that was modified to be more street-level-friendly and welcoming.

I'm sure there's a price tag on a website somewhere.

Veloise, wasn't it something like $250 Million to take the "Portman" ground floor bunker feel out of the Ren Center. I think SOM did the redesign.

http://www.som.com/resources/projects/1/5/...h_entry_324.jpg

[dtown]

Absolutely. But what until then? And therein lies the crux of our problem...

If it was harder to find a place to park, then maybe more people would push for mass transit.

[Rizzo]

If they have to provide parking in order to attract top talent, what kind of sense does that make? I would expect that in a non core environment. Now downtown needs to provide parking in order to spur growth... how can that be sustainable?

[Veloise]

...

Veloise, wasn't it something like $250 Million to take the "Portman" ground floor bunker feel out of the Ren Center. I think SOM did the redesign. ...

Hah! Wikepedia is my friend:

"In 2003, General Motors completed a $500 million renovation of the Renaissance Center for its world headquarters which it had purchased in 1996. Skidmore, Owings & Merrill, Gensler, the Smith Group, and Ghafari Associates were among the architects for the renovation. The majority of the construction operations were led by Turner Construction Company. The renovation included the addition of a five-story Wintergarden which provides access to the Detroit International Riverfront. [2] Work continued in and around the complex until 2005. The Renaissance Center totals 5.5 million square feet (511,000 m

[GRDadof3]

VAI has their new "gateway", ahem I mean parking lot almost finished:

I'm sure once it's "park-able", we'll really see them go to town on the current lot:

http://vai.oxblue.com/vari/

[sparky05]

Thanks for those pics, GRDad. Or as I like to call you, THUNDER-STEALER.

Site overview:

And the nice new rendering on the sign by Division:

My dream finally came true - I made it onto the VAI Construction cam! 100 bonus UP points to the first one to find me:

[GRDadof3]

Sorry sparky.

How about here?

How do you know when it takes the shot? It just takes one image per day, doesn't it?

[sparky05]

How about here?

NO! Sorry, but thanks for playing!

How do you know when it takes the shot? It just takes one image per day, doesn't it?

Actually, it's every 11 minutes. this particular shot was taken at 3:01, I think...

[torgo]

NO! Sorry, but thanks for playing!

The only other people I see are the group of 4 in the bottim-left (ish) part of the pic.

[sparky05]

The only other people I see are the group of 4 in the bottim-left (ish) part of the pic.

I'm right on the corner...

Edited April 10, 2007 by sparky05

[Grand Rapidian]

I'm right on the corner...

in this

its Where's Waldo on crack lol

Edited April 10, 2007 by Grand Rapidian

[grrwymg]

<snippage>

its Where's Waldo on crack lol

I <3 this forum....

[PBJ]

in this

its Where's Waldo on crack lol

If you click on the link to the original posting with the pic in it, he's highlighted.. sheesh..

how exactly you know it's you is beyond me...

[sparky05]

If you click on the link to the original posting with the pic in it, he's highlighted.. sheesh..

how exactly you know it's you is beyond me...

A) I can make out my camera bag

b) I was wearing a long black coat

C) I walked past the three women chatting at the top of the steps about 1 minute later

I've sort of been trying to get on that camera for a while, so I always note the time when i walk through that area. Today was my lucky day.