Medical Mile/Michigan Street Developments

[GR8scott]

haha elitists.....28th is necessary in fact its part of being a "big" city, theres going to be sprawl, suburbs, big highways, small roads, high density and 1 acre lots and everything in between. Not everyone wants to be a part of the high density city or the older suburbs. The fact that the "Medical Mile" has a vision and enforces building codes has nothing to do with being an elitist. The Mc Donalds is a great example of how something gets grandfathered in and now can not be repeated in that area. Its not like they are all of the sudden saying "we dont want to be a 28th street so lets mow down buildings on both sides of the road and only replace them with 3+ stories and street front entrances". Its called continuous improvement. 

[RegalTDP]

A .24-acre parcel is only too small if you're trying to place a drive-thru in it.  It isn't too small for most kinds of retail, and It certainly isn't too small for a normal Starbucks (i.e. sans drive-thru).  The Starbucks in Gaslight Village is on a .17-acre lot, and it has plenty of room for seating.  There's just no drive-thru.  Why try to squeeze one on Michigan Street?  It's hard to claim this will "fit in with neighborhood" when you have to request so many variances.

 

Now I don't speak for everyone, but I'm a Starbucks fiend and unapologetically 100% pro-Starbucks in most cases.  Not that I'm here to tell people how to run their business or anything, but If you just build a normal Starbucks cafe-style, with indoor seating, than conforms to land use and zoning, then you will have a neighborhood draw.  You will have an actual place.  You don't need a drive-thru to keep it viable and you can't convince me that you do.

 

A drive-thru only Starbucks won't be a place.  All this project would do is siphon traffic from McDonalds, which I don't think is a winning model in the long run.  And if Starbucks does leave, now we're left with another empty drive-thru.  Isn't that great… As soon as we don't have to look at the old Hot 'n' Now anymore, now we get another one!

 

Small parcels are not uncommon on Michigan Street.  There are plenty of possibilities here, including a full Starbucks cafe.  I see no reason why the city should have approved these variances.

Edited October 11, 2013 by RegalTDP

[droonus2000]

What about Celedon style row houses? They might fit. Garage on the ground floor, living space above. It's not ideal, but it would seem to be closer to zoning. The garages may have to face Sinclair, not sure if that would get pass the Planning Comission.

I hate suburban residential developments, but Celdons pretty nice.

[GRDadof3]

like I had said in an earlier post (copied below) it seems like there'd be room for a "real" coffee shop if you didn't have to do that extra drive along the East side of the parcel. What's that all about Eric? Can't people just access the back and drive through via the side-street? Urban Mill has a set up like that, and you'd hardly notice it has a drive through (I actually forgot until just now). Built to the street, indoor seating.

 

I will say there's probably a market for a Starbucks there. Big Apple Bagel is pretty weak in the coffee department and it's so small there's never anywhere decent to sit (and nowhere to plug in a laptop if you need it). The drive through is precarious at best.The coffee shop in the credit union? Yeah, a latte and a free checking account please. The coffee shop in the ground floor of the Health Sciences building primarily serves the students there. Biggby at Michigan and Fuller serves an entirely different geographical area (in my opinion), and their coffee is mediocre.

 

Eric, I seriously think if you built a 3 story building with apartments above, you'd fill the apartments before they were finished. You could even do it sans any parking and I still believe you'd have them rented in no time. Starbucks on the ground floor with a drive through, skip the loop drive back around so you can build out to both streets.

 

You bought the property back in 2008 (?) betting big on Michigan St. You knew what a risk it was being a small parcel. It's not like you're a distressed property owner.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know, shipping containers on Michigan St? Here are the plans. I don't understand the need for a turnaround drive though. You forget your change, jump out and run back.

 

The plan needs a lot of work...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[wingbert]

Just look a quarter of mile west of the McDonalds and imagine it had been assumed that the old Burger King would always be there and therefore a bunch of small drive through coffee shops, etc. had been allowed to sprout up there.  Tear down the Towers building and replace it with a Baskin Robbins/Dunkin Donuts combo drive through.

[Jippy]

I love how you guys dis 28th St.   If it didn't exist, chances are this urban 'let it rot til hopefully something better comes along in a decade' experiment on Michigan would be dead in its tracks or in far worse shape today.  As someone who lives near 28th I'm seriously considering saying enough is enough and try to convince developers to move some of their bad ideas to Michigan St and shake up some of the elitists up there.  The people near 28th have been dumped on enough.  Maybe it's time other neighborhoods share some of the load.

 

I think the proposed Starbucks, would be a good interim model for 28th street. Non-standard architecture, buildings pushed closer up to the street but still allows auto uses in front of the building. 

 

Realistically, 28th Street will not urbanize until the Division has substantially undergone an redevelopment transformation. The one exception may be more of a life-style center redevelopment in the 28th and East Beltline area.

[Jippy]

I wish no ill will on anyone, and I appreciate the developer engaging on this forum.

 

IMO, the take away from this process, is that Grand Rapids is still a very pro-development community, with limits. It indicates that when the community develops a vision, they will make great attempts to fulfill it. In the end, the rejection of this proposal actually makes the development process more predictable.  

 

There is no doubt that this is a difficult site to develop without aggregating with additional land.  There really needs to be a buffer with the McDonald's if it is going to have office/residential on top. And office isn't going to work unless there is access to more parking.  Long-run, it would best be sold and developed in collaboration with MSU who owns nearly everything else in the two blocks adjacent to the site. And the McD's franchise owners will sell out eventually when land values escalate enough. 

Edited October 11, 2013 by Jippy

[terra firma]

 

  There really needs to be a buffer with the McDonald's i

 

been there, tried that

 

Long-run, it would best be sold and developed in collaboration with MSU

 

been there, tried that

 

who owns nearly everything else in the two blocks adjacent to the site. And the McD's franchise owners will sell out eventually

 

been there, tried that-- not for sale at any price, corporate owned store not a franchise and the numbers apparetnly look pretty good to the accounting dept at mcDonalds..

 

all nice thoughts--- just cant force it to happen.  Bummer.

[terra firma]

@GR_Urbanist  Enough said? Last time I counted, I have managed, planned, financed or developed over $750 million in projects, so I would hardly disqualify my input as lacking skin. Your pedestrian insults=

 

 

Pedestrian insults ?  $750 million in projects ?   Donald Trump himself isn't even this important.

[egrguy]

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/10/drive-thru_starbucks_on_medica.html#incart_river

Just read where it was unanimous to not approve the project. I'm grateful it was that obvious to not grant the variances needed for this project.

I'm a proponent of what a nice Starbucks store can do (Gaslight Village), but I just would like to see all stand alone chains not exist in an emerging area of the city where there will be further growth.

The BK sold for $6M, I'm confident corporate will eventually get an offer to move off of that site.

[GRDadof3]

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2013/10/drive-thru_starbucks_on_medica.html#incart_river

Just read where it was unanimous to not approve the project. I'm grateful it was that obvious to not grant the variances needed for this project.

I'm a proponent of what a nice Starbucks store can do (Gaslight Village), but I just would like to see all stand alone chains not exist in an emerging area of the city where there will be further growth.

The BK sold for $6M, I'm confident corporate will eventually get an offer to move off of that site.

 

 

I don't know jdkacz. It sounds like MSU is going West of where they are now, not East. Maybe in 20 - 30 years McDonalds will get bought out.

[jas49503]

I'm Glad that that turd of a building isn't going to be built.  it is very reminiscent of the bunker at cherry and diamond that finally is being remodeled.  What I'd like to see if they are really committed to a drive through is to strike a deal with McDonalds to use the back of their lot for the egress. If they could then purchase get rid of Sinclair, they could easily do a real development with multiple stories and street frontage, while still fulfilling their suburban, car oriented development fantasy.  

 

on a side note, I would say that the people with the most "skin in the game" are the ones that live and work nearby, like myself.  I would rather have the decrepiet buildings that are there now than the proposed starbucks.

 

 I am also a developer with almost 75 thousand dollars worth of projects underway on michigan( ), so I have some financial skin in addition to social skin in the game. (hopefully GRdad, seeing my small d**k doesn't make you throw up.)

[MJLO]

I don't know jdkacz. It sounds like MSU is going West of where they are now, not East. Maybe in 20 - 30 years McDonalds will get bought out.

 

 

That Mcdonalds is one of the busiest and most profitable in Michigan.   It is also owned by corporate McDonalds which is far more aggressive and organized than Burger King at every level.  While there is a price for everything, Mcdonalds is not going to give up such a high profile revenue center without maintaining a presence elsewhere in the neighborhood.   I wouldn't hold my breath.

[Jippy]

 

 I am also a developer with almost 75 thousand dollars worth of projects underway on michigan( ), so I have some financial skin in addition to social skin in the game. (hopefully GRdad, seeing my small d**k doesn't make you throw up.)

 

Love it!

[GRDadof3]

I'm Glad that that turd of a building isn't going to be built.  it is very reminiscent of the bunker at cherry and diamond that finally is being remodeled.  What I'd like to see if they are really committed to a drive through is to strike a deal with McDonalds to use the back of their lot for the egress. If they could then purchase get rid of Sinclair, they could easily do a real development with multiple stories and street frontage, while still fulfilling their suburban, car oriented development fantasy.  

 

on a side note, I would say that the people with the most "skin in the game" are the ones that live and work nearby, like myself.  I would rather have the decrepiet buildings that are there now than the proposed starbucks.

 

 I am also a developer with almost 75 thousand dollars worth of projects underway on michigan( ), so I have some financial skin in addition to social skin in the game. (hopefully GRdad, seeing my small d**k doesn't make you throw up.)

 

 

Touche'. I actually deleted my post to keep it PG rated around here.

[terra firma]

I think this writer from Calvin College did an excellent job representing both sides of the discussion.  Fun little slam in there about "not expecting the developer to know anything about good urban planning":

 

http://www.calvin.edu/chimes/2013/10/17/city-votes-against-building-new-starbucks/

[GRDadof3]

Not really sure if this is the right place for this, but rumor has it Spectrum picked up two properties next to the old Rite Aid/Red Geranium building (the two old houses at 400 and 406 Michigan. Each property was listed at $1.2 Million each. Probably went for $1 Million each, if I were a betting man.

 

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.970214,-85.6592447,3a,75y,189.2h,90t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sJGjxgl7hUhM51kTIPSO7jg!2e0

 

Let the speculation begin! Probably looking to add more parking.

[Allison Slater]

I'll be a little sad to see 400 go but considering the location and their environment, new development here on that land will be a good thing.  Parking, not quite so much.

[MJLO]

It's crazy that those properties went for that much, but I guess that speaks to what the area has become.    I'd love to see Spectrum develop those lots.

[GRDadof3]

It's crazy that those properties went for that much, but I guess that speaks to what the area has become.    I'd love to see Spectrum develop those lots.

 

Well combined with the old Rite Aid, there may be development potential. They're growing pretty fast. From talking with someone who was recently hired into the Spectrum network, even the orientation process is pretty elaborate, with bus tours and big presentations, speakers, etc.. Almost Disney'esque.

[GRDadof3]

The two homes on Michigan St mentioned earlier are slated for a surface parking lot. But apparently GVSU is voting today to do a land swap with Spectrum.

 

Earl said Spectrum plans to sell a parking lot on the north side of Michigan to Grand Valley State University, which would erect a new building east of its Cook-DeVos Center for Health Sciences. Spectrum also would buy the GVSU-owned parking lot near the former Bethlehem Lutheran Church, she said.

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2014/12/where_spectrum_health_wants_to.html

 

Wonder what they're looking to erect?

 

Here's all the land in the mix.

 

 

 

 

[GR_Urbanist]

I'd say ok to the demolition only when dirt is being turned for the new GUVS building, assuming it is the blue square fronting Michigan that is where it will go.

[MJLO]

Would this be in addition to the "plans" for all the property GVSU bought on the north side of the freeway?  Or in place of them?

[GRDadof3]

Would this be in addition to the "plans" for all the property GVSU bought on the north side of the freeway?  Or in place of them?

 

GVSU closed on all that land North of I-196, so they'll do something with it. Not sure if these two are related or not. Supposed to hear more after GVSU Board meeting after 4:00 today.

[GRDadof3]

The official word. No designs yet that I've seen.

 

This property deal is a key part in our plan to expand our Center for Health Sciences building on Michigan and admit more students to our high-demand programs. The action by our board allows us to move to the next level in planning for additional classrooms and laboratories downtown.”

 

Grand Valley has submitted the project to state policy makers and the Legislature for review. It, along with other projects, has been advanced by the Joint Capital Outlay subcommittee for planning authority; approval by the House and Senate is also required.

 

The university also owns property on the north side of the I-196 expressway, which is planned for additional health campus expansion over the next 25 years.

 

Sounds like we'll see something soon.

 

And it's this whole 1.4 acre chunk.

 

 

 

 

The entire release is up on GVSU's site:

 

http://www.gvsu.edu/gvnow/index.htm?articleId=DB3ED958-9585-D423-0C67756CA7329F85