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joeDowntown

Medical Mile/Michigan Street Developments

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Good bye old friend!

We will replace you with a bigger, better ...... parking.

Just a quick update on Michigan Street Bridge widening. After looking at traffic counts, < 30,000 trips, there is no justification for expanding the street. The evidence is showing that it will contribute to Michigan becoming a slowly moving parking lot. The RFP also has no questions regarding how the reconstruction will figure in non-motorized traffic. Basically, it just asks how a contractor will replace a sidewalk.

I also talked with a member of Immanuel Lutheran church who said they actually bus kids over from the local elementary school (5 blocks away) for programming because they feel the Freeway crossing and Michigan are not safe.

Is Michigan Street proposed to be widened to 6 lanes, or Division (or both)?

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Is Michigan Street proposed to be widened to 6 lanes, or Division (or both)?

If they are going 6 lanes, somebody please tell me that they are at least giving it a boulevard treatment with trees and lots of well-defined crosswalks so it can have some connection the the city. The last thing we need is a huge 6-lane concrete mega-slab down Michigan St so cars can go a zillion miles per hour. ugghh...

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If they are going 6 lanes, somebody please tell me that they are at least giving it a boulevard treatment with trees and lots of well-defined crosswalks so it can have some connection the the city. The last thing we need is a huge 6-lane concrete mega-slab down Michigan St so cars can go a zillion miles per hour. ugghh...

that would be AWESOME... b/c you're correct, the last thing we need is a 28th street replica...

Edited by PBJ

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I think that is what hilltopper and bwindi are concerned about. It seems that RDV and Christman are only thinking of people moving within the complex and over Bridge Street, getting cars to the parking ramps, and not how people in the surrounding area are affected. And I'm afraid that the City just has dollar signs in their head due to their budget problems, and will fast-track anything that is proposed. MDOT has just gotten approval to do a $300,000 study of that area to determine what will work for the medical complex.

Everyone should be letting the city planning commission know:

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?page_id=2629

As well as our elected officials (even if you don't reside in the city):

http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?page_id=42

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I think that is what hilltopper and bwindi are concerned about. It seems that RDV and Christman are only thinking of people moving within the complex and over Bridge Street, getting cars to the parking ramps, and not how people in the surrounding area are affected. And I'm afraid that the City just has dollar signs in their head due to their budget problems, and will fast-track anything that is proposed. MDOT has just gotten approval to do a $300,000 study of that area to determine what will work for the medical complex.

Everyone should be letting the city planning commission know:

http://www.ci.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?page_id=2629

As well as our elected officials (even if you don't reside in the city):

http://www.grand-rapids.mi.us/index.pl?page_id=42

What worries me about this is that the decision-makers will sacrifice EVERYTHING to the fact that its a hospital, and put EVERYTHING not related to ambulance/health convenience on the back burner. So if a boulevard would make it a slight inconvenience for an ambulance driver to get to the emergency room, then they would axe the idea. Obvously, it has to be taken into consideration, but I don't think we need to wreck half of town because if it, ya know?

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I think the towers/cancer center developments should have a web cam. What do you folks think about that? :thumbsup:

Yes, make it happen realadvanced! ;)

andy, don't all of the emergency vehicles enter the emergency room on Barclay? An ambulance approaching from the West can just make a right turn down Barclay, and an ambulance entering from the East already has a left turn lane on Michigan. I think the emergency vehicle argument is bunk (not slamming you, of course).

Edited by GRDadof3

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Yes, make it happen realadvanced! ;)

andy, don't all of the emergency vehicles enter the emergency room on Barclay? An ambulance approaching from the West can just make a right turn down Barclay, and an ambulance entering from the East already has a left turn lane on Michigan. I think the emergency vehicle argument is bunk (not slamming you, of course).

I dont know for sure...haven't been to the emergency room in a long time (knock on wood :P )and you may be right. But Michigan would still be the "arterial" street that gets that traffic too, even if the emergency room is off of Barclay. I am interested to see what this study turns up.

If they did a boulevard, I would be happier with that, even if it did have 6 lanes plus a center turn lane. it would still be better than what is there now

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What we really need to be six lanes is I-96 and also we need to think of way to address traffic concerns in our city. Because road expansion is only one element of the problem. B)

I'm guessing you mean I-196 in downtown GR. MDOT is studying this issue right now. The study area Includes I-196 (Ford Fwy) in Downtown to where the freeway turns into I-96 at the Beltline. I think plans call for widening of the freeway, WB access from the Ford to I-96 and WB access from I-96 to the Ford.

I-196 Study

Edited by mpchicago

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I'm guessing you mean I-196 in downtown GR. MDOT is studying this issue right now. The study area Includes I-196 Ford Fwy) in Downtown to where the freeway turns into I-96 at the Beltline. I think plans call for widening of the freeway, WB access from the Ford to I-96 and WB access from I-96 to the Ford.

I-196 Study

Remind me to avoid that mess when it starts :wacko::blink:

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Looking at those illustrations brings up a funny topic (maybe its own thread). Why is it that if you are coming from Lansing on I-96, you cannot get off at Fulton Street? And why is it, if you are coming from the Plainfield area heading East, you cannot go downtown on I-196 :blink: Why if you are coming from the Plainfield area heading East and want to get off at the Beltline, you have to pull a Dukes of Hazard across three lanes of highway :huh: Same with coming from the Beltline headed to downtown, you have to cross traffic that may be headed toward Plainfield area on I-96 going 75 - 80 mph.

Instead of adding this spaghetti mess http://www.michigan.gov/documents/MDOT_i19...ne_105399_7.pdf

Why don't they just make on and off ramps right down the middle of the I-196 from the Beltline bridge to handle Beltline/I-96/I-196 traffic separately, similar to Alpine/I-96? Although that intersection at I-96/131 and Alpine looks like a mess, it moves pretty smoothly. It's only when you go North on Alpine that it becomes a frenzied abomination :w00t:

Wow, that conceptual drawing shows an 8 lane highway going through the Beltline/I-96/I-196 area!

Edited by GRDadof3

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Looking at those illustrations brings up a funny topic (maybe its own thread). Why is it that if you are coming from Lansing on I-96, you cannot get off at Fulton Street? And why is it, if you are coming from the Plainfield area heading East, you cannot go downtown on I-196 :blink: Why if you are coming from the Plainfield area heading East and want to get off at the Beltline, you have to pull a Dukes of Hazard across three lanes of highway :huh: Same with coming from the Beltline headed to downtown, you have to cross traffic that may be headed toward Plainfield area on I-96 going 75 - 80 mph.

Wow, that conceptual drawing shows an 8 lane highway going through the Beltline/I-96/I-196 area!

I don't know, but I agree with you jeff. I have always hated that interchange. Getting downtown from beltline isn't so bad because you only have to get over once, to the middle lane. But getting from EB 96 to beltline awful. Sometimes I wonder what in the world these people where thinking when they designed what is currently there :wacko:

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Part of the study is to also expand College Ave overpass to 7 lanes and expand the onramps. What's critical for Belknap Lookout neighborhood is that Coit and College Overpasses and Lafayette Ave. Underpass are done in a way that remove barriers, not creates them.

Here is what our award winning Master Plan says:

Objective BT 4: Reduce the extent to which highways create barriers to movement between neighborhoods, business areas and the Grand River

c) seek opportunities for improving street connectivity and pedestrian/bicycle access as highway improvements are planned, for example on I-196

The other interesting thing that the Master Plan highlights is that the intersection of Leonard, Division and Plainfield is a Transit Node. How does intense infrastructure investment in Michigan Ave and I-196 do to undermine this area's potential?

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There is no reason why 196 needs to be expanded. After looking over the proposed MDOT plans, can't you see the damage this highway has done to the connectivity of the city. All those blocks USED to connect.

Hmmm... Was that semi-truck going too fast that fell off the ramp at the 196 & 131 interchange?

Why do hundreds of people get off 196 at College and Fuller and think that they can still go 40-70 mph down Michigan, Fuller, Diamond, and College?

Our city was built on grid system, which provides options.

It would be a waste of money to increase the lanes on 196 or 131 near the core of GR.

From Wood TV 8:

"(UPDATE- Grand Rapids, October 1, 2005, 10:30 p.m.) A truck driver from Ohio is lucky to be alive after driving his semi truck off a bridge and onto the freeway ramp 100 feet below.

The truck was traveling northbound on U.S. 131 around 5:30 p.m. Saturday when the driver lost control. The truck hit the guard rail on the ramp leading to westbound I-196 and flipped over. It landed on the ramp leading from eastbound I-196 to southbound U.S. 131, 100 feet below. The cab landed on it's wheels. The driver walked away with only minor injuries. He was not wearing his seatbelt.

Michigan State Police closed the ramp for several hours."

Not wearing a seatbelt??? Thankfully no one else was hurt.

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Welcome to the boards GR Walker.

Why do hundreds of people get off 196 at College and Fuller and think that they can still go 40-70 mph down Michigan, Fuller, Diamond, and College?

for that, I have no answer, but it is pretty dangerous to cross michigan during busy hours

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The core of the city, is where the most traffic sits. Why would it be a waste of money to widen them? What do you propose is done about our freeways being at capacity? You're never going to get suburbanites off them in their commute from 44th to Alpine. It makes the city look just as bad to have an old outdated infrastructure, namely the freeways running thru town. Even the nicest, most advanced, progressive cities have them everywhere, not to mention they are built wide enough to handle the traffic flow.

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The core of the city, is where the most traffic sits. Why would it be a waste of money to widen them? What do you propose is done about our freeways being at capacity? You're never going to get suburbanites off them in their commute from 44th to Alpine. It makes the city look just as bad to have an old outdated infrastructure, namely the freeways running thru town. Even the nicest, most advanced, progressive cities have them everywhere, not to mention they are built wide enough to handle the traffic flow.

I agree, the highways need to be greatly improved, as well as other transit solutions. People and businesses moving into any area judge the area by its infrastructure. Crumbling highways do not make prospective companies think "Wow, what a great place to be, everyone must walk and not drive cars on these 18th century highways!" What good is a walkable city if there is no one here to walk it.

Thanks for checking in GR Walker, but is your beef that he wasn't wearing a seatbelt? or that he was driving a truck on the highway which should have never been built? From what I hear, he had a tire blowout. If he wasn't wearing a seatbelt, it would have been his own neck.

I thought this was the Medical Mile Construction update thread? :huh:

Edited by GRDadof3

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The core of the city, is where the most traffic sits. Why would it be a waste of money to widen them? What do you propose is done about our freeways being at capacity?

You can fix the highways without adding more lanes. Increasing 196 thru the Downtown area is a big waste of MDOT dollars. You can update the infrastructure while saving monies and time. Great urban centers do not revolve around highways or cars, they revolve around density. Density is not calculated by the amount of cars that sit in a parking ramp or surface lot for 6-12 hours.

With the current energy crisis we are all in, we should be working on initiatives that encourage walkability.

I thought this was the Medical Mile Construction update thread? :huh:

Health Hill is a major stakeholder and developer in the Michigan Street area. They have a responsibility to make sure that their developments have a low impact on the neighborhoods they are in.

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Wow, $190 Million! Nice model:

3973552_BG2.jpg

And 12 stories ON TOP of the parking deck there! Sweet!

Edited by GRDadof3

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Check out the Spectrum website...great renderings.

Doesn't look as tall as I thought it would be, but I like it!

http://spectrum-health.org/?s=11&nid=3FDDD...78684F6600864E9

Now I better actually get some work done...this is exciting, though!

WOW!!! I can't believe you didn't post this photo mgreven :D

New%20DeVos%20Childrens_Exterior.jpg

Anyone know how to shrink that puppy down. Here's a link to the jpg file:

http://spectrum-health.org/ContentStore/Ne...ns_Exterior.jpg

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