Medical Mile/Michigan Street Developments

[dtown]

I got the same shot yesterday, except PANORAMIC!

This may have been already asked, but what is that building going to look like?

[GRDadof3]

This may have been already asked, but what is that building going to look like?

Like this Big d:

[joeDowntown]

Looking at the way the parking structure is built, is the MSU building going to have fully utilized space at about the fourth floor with the first three being a lot smaller?

Joe

[dtown]

Like this Big d:

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Ah, ok. Thanks Dad.

[GRDadof3]

Looking at the way the parking structure is built, is the MSU building going to have fully utilized space at about the fourth floor with the first three being a lot smaller?

Joe

Nope Joe. I thought it would, but the first four floors of the med school is ALL parking. It's just a glass facade on the West side of the parking ramp:

[joeDowntown]

Interesting. So would the MSU building have an entrance from street level, or would it be only through the parking ramp?

I hope the "main" entrance (even if it wasn't used as much as the parking entrance) would sit street-side and Division.

Joe

Nope Joe. I thought it would, but the first four floors of the med school is ALL parking. It's just a glass facade on the West side of the parking ramp:

[GRDadof3]

No, it's pretty much going to be cut off from the rest of downtown. That area near Division and Michigan will very much resemble (and may even be worse than) the big stone walls that separate Vandenberg/Calder Plaza from Monroe Ave (without the decorative stone). Because Calder Plaza is a semi-underground parking ramp capped with a big plaza. There will be several parking ramp entrances, a very tiny exterior stairwell, and 1 or 2 doors for pedestrians to enter the parking ramp. The main entrance points are up top in the vehicle turnaround (and by skywalk). Think of the 2300 car parking ramp as a giant base for a "cake", and the three towers will be rectangle cakes sitting on top of it (just like Calder Plaza). It's a prime example of how NOT to do urban design, which should have gone out with the international movement.

But hey, think of all the jobs being created downtown. Think of the jobs........ think of the jobs......think of the money.....pay no attention to the big blank walls and concrete bunkers.......you're getting very sleepy........................

[torgo]

What a disaster. It seems like hospitals and medical buildings get a pass for their crappy design just because they are medical buildings.

[GRDadof3]

What a disaster. It seems like hospitals and medical buildings get a pass for their crappy design just because they are medical buildings.

Well, we also have the Marriott bunker, the big wall around the Children's Hospital, and this Taj MaWall. What do they all have in common?

[Prankster]

No, it's pretty much going to be cut off from the rest of downtown. That area near Division and Michigan will very much resemble (and may even be worse than) the big stone walls that separate Vandenberg/Calder Plaza from Monroe Ave (without the decorative stone). Because Calder Plaza is a semi-underground parking ramp capped with a big plaza. There will be several parking ramp entrances, a very tiny exterior stairwell, and 1 or 2 doors for pedestrians to enter the parking ramp. The main entrance points are up top in the vehicle turnaround (and by skywalk). Think of the 2300 car parking ramp as a giant base for a "cake", and the three towers will be rectangle cakes sitting on top of it (just like Calder Plaza). It's a prime example of how NOT to do urban design, which should have gone out with the international movement.

I couldn't have said it any better myself, in regards to the urban design developed/developing downtown. Why do we need to create "monuments", as opposed to buildings that fit into the urban fabric? This is not the suburbs, where you plop a building into a sea of parking, so everyone can clearly see what a great building was designed. Great downtowns are not made up of buildings that are either put on pedastels, or have attached parking lots for their customers. Cherry street landing is guilty of the latter example.

[NorthEnder]

Well, we also have the Marriott bunker, the big wall around the Children's Hospital, and this Taj MaWall. What do they all have in common?

Don't forget the iconicwall on bond.

[GRDadof3]

Don't forget the iconicwall on bond.

Yes, but that isn't being developed by the "Big Familes", which seem to be dictating quite a bit of design standards to the city. Oh, I forgot the big blank wall along Division for the Van Andel Arena. It's better than a TriFecta, it's a Quadra-cepta!

[torgo]

Yes, but that isn't being developed by the "Big Familes", which seem to be dictating quite a bit of design standards to the city. Oh, I forgot the big blank wall along Division for the Van Andel Arena. It's better than a TriFecta, it's a Quadra-cepta!

Huh? Do you mean VAI?

[GRDadof3]

Huh? Do you mean VAI?

Duh. You know that's the third or fourth time I've said "arena" instead of "institute". Yes, the institute's ground floor on both Bostwick and on Division are completely blank walls. How was a variance granted for these?

[beergeek]

What a disaster. It seems like hospitals and medical buildings get a pass for their crappy design just because they are medical buildings.

If I was designing the new Cancer Center & Children's Hospital, I would have made them a big concrete box (a la GRCC) and saved a ton of $$$, and in turn provided more care to underserved populations. I think hospitals should get a pass on design if they're trying to save money (you don't need me to tell you how outrageous health care costs are nowdays). Personally, I don't think these designs are all that bad. Could they have been better? Absolutely. But they could have been a lot worse, or a lot more expensive. You can't have affordable medical care and iconic buildings with invisible parking garages, 100% street-level transparency, walkability, etc. Which is more important for the community?

Can anybody out there guesstimate how much $$ would be saved if the HDVCH skipped the spire and the fancy exterior work and just built a concrete box? Are we talking $1-2M? $10M?!?

[GRDadof3]

If I was designing the new Cancer Center & Children's Hospital, I would have made them a big concrete box (a la GRCC) and saved a ton of $$$, and in turn provided more care to underserved populations. I think hospitals should get a pass on design if they're trying to save money (you don't need me to tell you how outrageous health care costs are nowdays). Personally, I don't think these designs are all that bad. Could they have been better? Absolutely. But they could have been a lot worse, or a lot more expensive. You can't have affordable medical care and iconic buildings with invisible parking garages, 100% street-level transparency, walkability, etc. Which is more important for the community?

Can anybody out there guesstimate how much $$ would be saved if the HDVCH skipped the spire and the fancy exterior work and just built a concrete box? Are we talking $1-2M? $10M?!?

I agree, and they should have built out in the suburbs for that very reason. What is the benefit of having your office or hospital downtown if it's not a PART of downtown? Land costs more, parking costs more, site costs are higher, then why do it? Merely for the prestige? How many of the people in all of health hill are going to spill out into downtown and help the downtown economy with the way it is designed? McDonalds and Bagel Beanery might pick up some business, will anyone else? The way it all is designed, it's done so that people can get to it quickly in their car, pull into the parking garage, enter the building, use the service, exit the building right back to their car, get back on the highway quickly. That's both for visitors and employees. Why would anyone looking to work there want to live downtown? You can't walk to it very easily. The development screams, "do not enter without your vehicle".

[tamias6]

Granted I would be all for losing the Giga-Parking Ramp of Hell that the towers will sit on and yes the urban fabric of Health Hill needs improvement. But I'd rather see a billion + dollars worth of investment be funneled into DT than out in the burbs any day.

Edited March 26, 2007 by tamias6

[designcritic]

Duh. You know that's the third or fourth time I've said "arena" instead of "institute". Yes, the institute's ground floor on both Bostwick and on Division are completely blank walls. How was a variance granted for these?

Per code anyone can build a blank wall without a variance. Ground floor uses are "encouraged" but that's it. In fact, per the code, if you have parking you pretty much have to build a blank wall in order to screen it. The only way it's ever going to change is to change the code to "require" ground floor uses but then the developers will scream that they can't fill the spaces.

[torgo]

That's not entirely true. In many areas of the CBD, the front facade of a building has to be at least 60% transparent, and the back has to be at least 40 percent transparent. The code does not dictate what should go on on the ground floor of anything.

The JW meets the requirements, and I'd bet that the zoning standards are different on the hill. And contrary to popular belief, you CAN build a nice looking hospital that isn't a bunker. Look at the way the Heart Center meets the street. Why can't everyone do that?

Sure, its not retail, but no one expects to see a Whole Foods or a GAP on the ground floor of a hospital. All we're asking for are some G.D. windows!

Edited March 26, 2007 by torgo

[GRDadof3]

That's not entirely true. In many areas of the CBD, the front facade of a building has to be at least 60% transparent, and the back has to be at least 40 percent transparent. The code does not dictate what should go on on the ground floor of anything.

The JW meets the requirements, and I'd bet that the zoning standards are different on the hill. And contrary to popular belief, you CAN build a nice looking hospital that isn't a bunker. Look at the way the Heart Center meets the street. Why can't everyone do that?

Sure, its not retail, but no one expects to see a Whole Foods or a GAP on the ground floor of a hospital. All we're asking for are some G.D. windows!

Thank you torgo! Even if it is a parking ramp and cars inside those windows, it's a much better experience for pedestrians than a wall.

[Grandrapidsne]

The whole Michigan corridor over by the hospital i think will end up being unpedstrian friendly with a series of tubes connecting one building to another. That along with Michigan being widened by the bridge will make the area seem kinda distant and cold.

[sparky05]

Welcome to the MSU Med School thread!

[tamias6]

Has construction started on it already? If so, does anybody has images of any final renderings as the last rendering I saw was the preliminary one with the typographical error shown in the GR Press a while back.

[superNOVA]

That is not the med school. The med school with be the building on the West end of the development.

[DwntwnGeo]

That is not the med school. The med school with be the building on the West end of the development.

Correct me if I am wrong Sparky, but I think this is the building on the West end of the developement. They are just that high with the parking garage levels already.