PROPOSED: Utopia Project

[Cotuit]

I HAD TO START A NEW THREAD WITH A NEW HEADLINE. SORRY.

Yes, this is great news for the entire region, but it's better to keep everything in one thread. Having two splits the discussion and causes confusion when people go to look back for previous posts and can't remember which thread they were in.

Now, who's going to find us a better rendering, and some site plans, and some transit info for Recchia?

[HartfordTycoon]

Yes, this is great news for the entire region, but it's better to keep everything in one thread. Having two splits the discussion and causes confusion when people go to look back for previous posts and can't remember which thread they were in.

Now, who's going to find us a better rendering, and some site plans, and some transit info for Recchia?

Preston

[Cotuit]

So is it on this map where routes 12 and 2A meet?

Mohegan Sun would be willing to consider collaborative transportation efforts if Utopia is developed, he said. Shuttles could move visitors between the facilities. A ferry could potentially taxi people across the Thames River that separates the properties. But so far, he said, there has been no dialogue.

I wonder if a ferry could run all the way up from New London? I imagine the river is navigable that far up. You could have rail passengers from Boston, Providence, and New York switch to the ferry in New London.

I just looked at the map, I never realized how far south Mohegan Sun was, for some reason I thought it was way up in the northeast corner of the state. Ferries from New London should work fine, and be rather timely. You can also catch passengers from the Orient Point ferry.

[HartfordTycoon]

So is it on this map where routes 12 and 2A meet?

I wonder if a ferry could run all the way up from New London? I imagine the river is navigable that far up. You could have rail passengers from Boston, Providence, and New York switch to the ferry in New London.

Yes it's on that map. Zoom out and follow it. Rt. 2 also is called Military Highway

[Recchia]

So hotels, a movie theater, marina, what else?

[ctman987]

SE CT Develomment

UTOPIA

4200 Hotel Rooms

Theme Parks

Film Studio

Performing Arts Schools

6000 Construction jobs

20,000+ permanent jobs

In Plainfield:

A developer has proposed a: 340 million dollar race track with 140,000 seats with associated development to include hotels, campgrounds and stores.

Foxwoods

Building a fourth hotel: 26 stories, 825 rooms, 4000 seat theater, 115000 square feet of meeting and convention space

2300 more jobs

Theres also Mohegan Sun, New London (sub base, coast guard acadamy, Pfizer Global Research Center), Norwich, Mystic Seaport, Mystic Acquarium and Providence and Hartford within short drives

[Germaine]

SE CT Develomment

UTOPIA

4200 Hotel Rooms

Theme Parks

Film Studio

Performing Arts Schools

6000 Construction jobs

20,000+ permanent jobs

In Plainfield:

A developer has proposed a: 340 million dollar race track with 140,000 seats with associated development to include hotels, campgrounds and stores.

Foxwoods

Building a fourth hotel: 26 stories, 825 rooms, 4000 seat theater, 115000 square feet of meeting and convention space

2300 more jobs

Theres also Mohegan Sun, New London (sub base, coast guard acadamy, Pfizer Global Research Center), Norwich, Mystic Seaport, Mystic Acquarium and Providence and Hartford within short drives

The potential is epic. Imagine being able to get people from Bradley and Hartford; New York-New Haven and Providence to SE CT by high speed rail. (They rent cars when they arrive there...).

[Recchia]

What size theme park are we talking here? Disney-World big or Six Flags big?

[HartfordTycoon]

What size theme park are we talking here? Disney-World big or Six Flags big?

I'm honestly thinking more like Disney World big. It's hard to imagine Disney World indoors though. But I think they are going for a national scale like Disney or Universal and not a local scale like Six Flags.

[GregV]

I can only imagine how much this project will increase traffic in the area. Having some sort of rapid transit from Hartford and other area cities is crucial.

[Recchia]

I can only imagine how much this project will increase traffic in the area. Having some sort of rapid transit from Hartford and other area cities is crucial.

Yes. I say extend the Shore Line East up to the site, and then either implement the Hartford/New Haven commuter rail or use a direct Hartford rail connection. Then I'd like to see RIDOT extend our proposed Commuter Rail service all the way to New London.

[HartfordTycoon]

Yes. I say extend the Shore Line East up to the site, and then either implement the Hartford/New Haven commuter rail or use a direct Hartford rail connection. Then I'd like to see RIDOT extend our proposed Commuter Rail service all the way to New London.

OK. Now we are thinking like a region. On another note I personally wish there was an easier way to get to PVD from Hartford, but we can solve that issue when both cities finally realize how beneficial a direct link would be connecting both of New England's supporting cities.

[Recchia]

OK. Now we are thinking like a region. On another note I personally wish there was an easier way to get to PVD from Hartford, but we can solve that issue when both cities finally realize how beneficial a direct link would be connecting both of New England's supporting cities.

More connections to anywhere is good for all cities. We had discussed the I-84 highway connection between Hartford and Providence, but I think the general consensus was that nobody wanted it. A commuter rail connection through the new Utopia area from Providence and Hartford could create that connection, although I doubt the state of RI would support a connection to attractions in another state where they won't be seeing any of the tax revenue from it. RIDOT has already entertained the idea of extending the Shore Line East into the state, however, so at least the thinking is there.

[Germaine]

OK. Now we are thinking like a region. On another note I personally wish there was an easier way to get to PVD from Hartford, but we can solve that issue when both cities finally realize how beneficial a direct link would be connecting both of New England's supporting cities.

Agreed, Tycoon. This is the way to compete with the "bigger" players.

[HartfordTycoon]

More connections to anywhere is good for all cities. We had discussed the I-84 highway connection between Hartford and Providence, but I think the general consensus was that nobody wanted it. A commuter rail connection through the new Utopia area from Providence and Hartford could create that connection, although I doubt the state of RI would support a connection to attractions in another state where they won't be seeing any of the tax revenue from it. RIDOT has already entertained the idea of extending the Shore Line East into the state, however, so at least the thinking is there.

I actually would be all for extending the interstate, but everyone can't agree on everything.

[SOCOM]

Has there been any mention of the Utopia project in the Courant the last week or so? I checked online and didn't see one word about it. Seems kind of weird to me that such a masive project hasn't been covered recently by New England's second largest newspaper.

[HartfordTycoon]

No, I didn't see it in the courant and the announcement was made from the capitol, strange....

I did see some articles in the New London Day about the announcement and also one about the other studio development, North Stonington Studios, which will be on Pequot land with the tribe owning a 40% interest. If only I was a Mashentuckett Pequot......

[ctman987]

This will be a great way for many people to cash in. I know there are many (1) many people who own parcels of land around Utopia that are waiting for a reason to build something on there land. (2) I can also see the fact of hotels and restaurants opening in other areas after Utopia is built because after the casinos were built many people bought, built or converted buildings into hotels that are being marketed as cheaper hotels to the ones at the casino. They are smaller and so not as hectic and offer transportation to and from the casinos. Yes there will be 4500 or whatver rooms at Utopia but if they are all very expensive then people will look for cheaper opportunities and if the same goes for restaurants also.

[virgo20]

I don't want to sound like a pessimist here, but I'm not really enthusiastic about this project. It is a sprawl disaster and encourages development in an area that is predominantly rural. The Pawcatuck Borderlands is the largest area of untamed wilderness in Southern New England that straddles the R.I. and Conn. borders. I'm a firm advocate of keeping rural areas natural and urban areas livable. This project encourages sprawl and will eventually accomplish just that if this is ever built. This will not be a boon for Hartford or New Haven in any such light.While this may help the state of Connecticut in terms of tax revenue, lght rail transit to and fro Hartford, New Haven, or even Providence will never be built. They might have bus trips like Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun , but when attractions are built farther and farther from urban cores, they limit the reasons to stay in the city when everything is happening outside the cores. This project is far enough away( over 50 miles) from any large city to have an economic effect that's beneficial.

The economic benefits that are envisioned are eerily similar to a casino's misguided benefits. Yes, it produces a lot of revenue for the state....but when it sucks $$ from its own residents, or in this case( from its cities) ....what net tangible benefit will the cities se? Why couldn't this be proposed for New London, Bridgeport, or even Hartford? There's plenty of land near the Meadows, near the Army base in N.L., and by that baseball park in Bdgpt. If you don't want to be there,why not in the inner ring burbs like Manchester, Bloomfield, Stratford, or even Groton? It's easier to build fresh and new in an area that doesn't have strict zoning and will accomodate ANY new tax revenue. These projects should be organized where whole communities will benefit, and in the case of Connecticut, its cities.

Most , if not all Connecticut cities, have suffered more because of massive sprawl and the colonization of Southwestern CT as a NYC suburb. Identifying w/ NYC as being in close proximity is a great marketing initiative to encourage development. but it does next to nothing to establish its own identity. Marketing southeastern Connecticut as the premier destination for entertainment in the state does NOTHING for the cities within their borders. It encourages sprawl and that is a FACT!

[HartfordTycoon]

I don't want to sound like a pessimist here, but I'm not really enthusiastic about this project. It is a sprawl disaster and encourages development in an area that is predominantly rural. The Pawcatuck Borderlands is the largest area of untamed wilderness in Southern New England that straddles the R.I. and Conn. borders. I'm a firm advocate of keeping rural areas natural and urban areas livable. This project encourages sprawl and will eventually accomplish just that if this is ever built. This will not be a boon for Hartford or New Haven in any such light.While this may help the state of Connecticut in terms of tax revenue, lght rail transit to and fro Hartford, New Haven, or even Providence will never be built. They might have bus trips like Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun , but when attractions are built farther and farther from urban cores, they limit the reasons to stay in the city when everything is happening outside the cores. This project is far enough away( over 50 miles) from any large city to have an economic effect that's beneficial.

The economic benefits that are envisioned are eerily similar to a casino's misguided benefits. Yes, it produces a lot of revenue for the state....but when it sucks $$ from its own residents, or in this case( from its cities) ....what net tangible benefit will the cities se? Why couldn't this be proposed for New London, Bridgeport, or even Hartford? There's plenty of land near the Meadows, near the Army base in N.L., and by that baseball park in Bdgpt. If you don't want to be there,why not in the inner ring burbs like Manchester, Bloomfield, Stratford, or even Groton? It's easier to build fresh and new in an area that doesn't have strict zoning and will accomodate ANY new tax revenue. These projects should be organized where whole communities will benefit, and in the case of Connecticut, its cities.

Most , if not all Connecticut cities, have suffered more because of massive sprawl and the colonization of Southwestern CT as a NYC suburb. Identifying w/ NYC as being in close proximity is a great marketing initiative to encourage development. but it does next to nothing to establish its own identity. Marketing southeastern Connecticut as the premier destination for entertainment in the state does NOTHING for the cities within their borders. It encourages sprawl and that is a FACT!

Well you do sound like a pessimist, but to each his own. I am admittedly a wanna be business man and in that light this is a great project. SE CT is the best place for an attraction this large because tourism already is an established industry in the area. This in no way could be accomodated anywhere near Hartford or any other large CT city. Something this huge warrants it's own space. It is inviting sprawl, but hey, the vegatation aint paying the bills. I hate to say it that way, but it's true. The abandoned hospital property is already an industrial area anyway. I think that this will solidly place the entertainment industry in CT and Southern New England, a good thing in my opinion.

I would like to see light rail, but really it doesn't matter. The project will benefit New London and Norwich, both of which are CT cities. It will indirectly benefit Hartford and everywhere else in CT by increasing traffic to Bradley, providing tax revenue to the state, and bringing tourist to CT. Many tourists will come here to go to Utopia and the Casinos and end up visiting Hartford for the CT Center for Science and Exploration, the Wadsworth Museum of Art , the Mark Twain House, or the Coltsville National Park (if approved). Many will visit Yale and patronize Downtown New Haven. Many, if not most, will visit Mystic Aquarium and Seaport, The National Coast Gaurd Museum, and whatever other attractions are to come in the New London area. Many will visit Providence while they are here. And many will visit the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield.

To me, the bottom line is that states need to grow and expand their industry base to remain competive. No state in New England is doing that at this point. CT may change that in the very near future and may have the brightest future of all New England states, I personally believe it does, but I am biased. Anything that is good for CT is good for CT, period. The more amenities we have here the better, almost nothing in CT is over an hour away from anything else in CT, let's keep that in perspective. Our entire state would be a metro area in TX. If you could have everything you ever needed or wanted in one state all within an hour of wherever you are, why would you ever leave? Especially when almost everything else you would like to visit is less than 4 hours away, NYC, Boston, Philly, Northern New England or 6 hours away, Baltimore-DC. I mean just do the addition. CT is setting itself up to be a winner. I mean CT is already a winner, but this is a definate improvement and boone for the state.

PS what business use doesn't suck money from the state's own residents usually for a coroporation that is not headquartered and therefore doesn't pay taxes to the state in which it's in? That's the idea of capitalism, to get people to give you their money. Importing dollars from other states and places is one of the keys to a state's financial well being. We have no choice but to find a way to get hard earned MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, VT, NH, ME, MD, and DE dollars onto the CT tax rolls. This is one of the best ways I can think of, if they really make movies and shows there we will be getting money from accross the globe and bringing it home to CT.

[virgo20]

Well you do sound like a pessimist, but to each his own. I am admittedly a wanna be business man and in that light this is a great project. SE CT is the best place for an attraction this large because tourism already is an established industry in the area. This in no way could be accomodated anywhere near Hartford or any other large CT city. Something this huge warrants it's own space. It is inviting sprawl, but hey, the vegatation aint paying the bills. I hate to say it that way, but it's true. The abandoned hospital property is already an industrial area anyway. I think that this will solidly place the entertainment industry in CT and Southern New England, a good thing in my opinion.

I would like to see light rail, but really it doesn't matter. The project will benefit New London and Norwich, both of which are CT cities. It will indirectly benefit Hartford and everywhere else in CT by increasing traffic to Bradley, providing tax revenue to the state, and bringing tourist to CT. Many tourists will come here to go to Utopia and the Casinos and end up visiting Hartford for the CT Center for Science and Exploration, the Wadsworth Museum of Art , the Mark Twain House, or the Coltsville National Park (if approved). Many will visit Yale and patronize Downtown New Haven. Many, if not most, will visit Mystic Aquarium and Seaport, The National Coast Gaurd Museum, and whatever other attractions are to come in the New London area. Many will visit Providence while they are here. And many will visit the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield.

To me, the bottom line is that states need to grow and expand their industry base to remain competive. No state in New England is doing that at this point. CT may change that in the very near future and may have the brightest future of all New England states, I personally believe it does, but I am biased. Anything that is good for CT is good for CT, period. The more amenities we have here the better, almost nothing in CT is over an hour away from anything else in CT, let's keep that in perspective. Our entire state would be a metro area in TX. If you could have everything you ever needed or wanted in one state all within an hour of wherever you are, why would you ever leave? Especially when almost everything else you would like to visit is less than 4 hours away, NYC, Boston, Philly, Northern New England or 6 hours away, Baltimore-DC. I mean just do the addition. CT is setting itself up to be a winner. I mean CT is already a winner, but this is a definate improvement and boone for the state.

PS what business use doesn't suck money from the state's own residents usually for a coroporation that is not headquartered and therefore doesn't pay taxes to the state in which it's in? That's the idea of capitalism, to get people to give you their money. Importing dollars from other states and places is one of the keys to a state's financial well being. We have no choice but to find a way to get hard earned MA, RI, NY, NJ, PA, VT, NH, ME, MD, and DE dollars onto the CT tax rolls. This is one of the best ways I can think of, if they really make movies and shows there we will be getting money from accross the globe and bringing it home to CT.

You know what, vegetation sure isn't paying the bills, but it sure didn't help New Orleans when Katrina hit. People ignored Mother Nature for years and never allocated $$ to stabilize wetlands around a city that was well below sea level..

The mentality of bulldozing rural areas, drilling the Arctic refuge for oil, and allowing development in national parks is shortsighted.....I could go on and on with this , but as this is UP and not Hardball Live, I will not go any further. I think that sprawl affects the U.S. more than any nation on Earth and it takes away from the quality of life that we expect our grandchildren to have. I was so happy ( elated) when R.I. firmly denounced plans to build state police hdq. in the Big River Management Area. It sends a message to people that character and quality of life come before business decisions.

Furthermore, casinos are not forms of economic development. They suck everything out from underneath them. Go into Foxwoods @ 2 Am on a Wednesday. Look at all the desperate addicted people sittting at the machines blowing their paycheck. I saw a woman with 2 young children @ 3am once on a Thursday blowing her mortgage payment on a slot machine. They might draw people down to play and have a little fun, but many people end up like the lady I saw....(mesmerized "by the wonder of it all")

[HartfordTycoon]

Furthermore, casinos are not forms of economic development. They suck everything out from underneath them. Go into Foxwoods @ 2 Am on a Wednesday. Look at all the desperate addicted people sittting at the machines blowing their paycheck. I saw a woman with 2 young children @ 3am once on a Thursday blowing her mortgage payment on a slot machine. They might draw people down to play and have a little fun, but many people end up like the lady I saw....(mesmerized "by the wonder of it all")

I am not an advocate of casino gambling, especially not for those who are addicted to such things. Utopia is a family friendly, smart development project that will bring a new industry to our great state. I applaud that. I don't think it could be built elsewhere. The casinos are here to stay whether you or I want them to, in my opinion Utopia is a far superior development that is not a vice the way gambling is.

[virgo20]

I am not an advocate of casino gambling, especially not for those who are addicted to such things. Utopia is a family friendly, smart development project that will bring a new industry to our great state. I applaud that. I don't think it could be built elsewhere. The casinos are here to stay whether you or I want them to, in my opinion Utopia is a far superior development that is not a vice the way gambling is.

It's not a bad development at all...I think it's great! However, I think there are enough industrialized areas prime for development in the Conn. cities and their outer=ring suburbs without locating large scale developments in small towns. I'm all for it 100%.......but put it somewhere closer to the urban centers...

[Recchia]

I tend to agree with you on this one Virgo, but isn't this proposed site directly adjacent to Norwich (which is a city, albeit small) and on an abandoned industrial site anyway? Couldn't it, if planned properly, be built as part of the city of Norwich, rather than as a sprawling development far outside of it?

[SOCOM]

I don't want to sound like a pessimist here, but I'm not really enthusiastic about this project.

Big surprise.

Anyway, virgo, I do agree with many of your points...but it's also important to acknowledge that Tycoon presents some valid points as well, and you can't just look at the negative side of everything. I'm sort of 50/50 on this project as it stands now. As more details come out on how (and if) it will be integrated within the city of Norwich and what sort of public transportation will serve the studios/theme park, then I'll make a more informed decision. Right now we're all doing a lot of speculating.