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PROPOSED: Utopia Project


Frankie811

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Okay. HartfordTycoon, a statement like "the vegatation ain't paying the bills" should never even accidentaly come out of your mouth because it's horribly redundant (really?), nevermind starting your post with dismissing Virgo as a pessimist (he/she probably only made that statement so as not to bring anyone down, which was needlessly shot down) and identifying yourself with the desire to be a "businessman" as if that validates your points. You've posted some strong points in the past, I appreciate them and maybe that's why I'm being hard on you for this one (take that as a compliment, please) but you should know better. Virgo20, I agree with you almost whole-heartedly, but your reaction to Tycoon's post blurred your ability to be coherent in your next one. I can see what you were getting at but you were hitting AROUND the mark for most of it. Do keep composure.

Honestly, the projects DO encourage sprawl. These projects SHOULD be closer to any nearby city. Connecticut DOES drop all of it's tourist spots in the no-man's land outside of Rhode Island's border so as to capture our and Mass's markets without having to compete with anybody or bother their residents.

BUT

These projects DO strengthen and diversify the region's economy, create jobs, and add to the tax base. They ARE (for the most part, I believe) on already used land or near already developed land which I suppose will do more to change the economies of the exsisting towns nearby than to blow them up into much larger suburban areas (although, I could be horribly wrong). Connecticut DOES drop all of it's tourist spots in the no-man's land outside of Rhode Island's border but who says we can't somehow work that to our advantage with some very clever thinking.

The fact is, these projects are exciting but they aren't perfect. Nobody in this forum is blind to the benefits and costs of these projects no matter what your priorities are. Play nice.

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I tend to agree with you on this one Virgo, but isn't this proposed site directly adjacent to Norwich (which is a city, albeit small) and on an abandoned industrial site anyway? Couldn't it, if planned properly, be built as part of the city of Norwich, rather than as a sprawling development far outside of it?

Norwich is very similar to Woonsocket in terms of size, population, and historic character. Each have small , struggling, but beautiful downtowns. If you put a Disney -sized attraction in No. Smithfield, Blackstone MA, or Cumberland, it would destroy the rural character that each of those town possesses. Norwich is a great little city, but is surrounded by rural areas much like Woonsocket. It doesn't matter if the site is on an unused vacant property or if it is even in a brownfield designated area. This project , in that location, sucks. That's my opinion and I'm entitled to one. That's what UP is about...opinions, discussions, and information from people all over that share interests in our cities.

New England built its industries many many years ago around its cities ...and that goes for every N.E. state. Big investments like this should be focused in urban centers around New England. Many places of rapid growth in the Southern U.S. don't even have centers of activity or urban cores. Development is built in clusters with no plan at all because of the affordability, lax zoning, and no one complaining. Many N.E. cities are just starting to come back and I think this project doesn't help. You're probably right when you say that traffic will increase @ Bradley, but I don't really see much of anything else happening with Hartford? Hartford is 1 hour away and if this "Utopia" builds convention centers, hotels, and huge attractions, whose to say that Hartford will just be a smudge on the way to "Utopia?" (referring to someone's comments about Prov. in the N.Y. Times many years ago explaining the trip to Cape Cod) I like to think of myself as an optimist and I'm certainly a man of business, but I try to look at the much bigger picture when analyzing a situation.

If I were governor of CT, I'd make a C4 campaign. (Connecticut Cities Connected Campaign) ALL the cities in CT are neglected and have been beaten up for years. ( Bridgeport, Waterbury, New Britain, Hartford, New Haven, New London...etc..etc..)They've all been branded with a second class status since at least the 60's...Fairfield County? Rocky Hill? CT casinos? Utopia? Development has sprawled out of control in some places where it should have never happened in the 1st place! While no one can change the past, the future is in everybody's hands. We live in a democracy where people should be able to voice their opinion and this project is $$ driven and consequences forgiven.....

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The encouragement of sprawl is one of Connecticut's gravest historical errors, Virgo, and I think you hit the nail on the head with this post. This project, though positive for Connecticut from a business/tax perspective, will only hurt Hartford (and Providence, for that matter), as job creation, resources, and even convention center demand head to the south of the state. The right hand never seems to know what the left is up to here, and we need to start working together, if not as a region, at least as a state.

But that's CT (and Northeast) politics for you. This project or any similar in scale could never gain approval in Bridgeport's blighted warehouse quarters or Hartford's North End because the communities that would benefit most would throw up too many road blocks. Just look at how long Adriaen's Landing took to gain steam, and it will have been over a decade in the making before its completion.

What this state needs is to stop cannibalizing itself. IMO, the state should put a moratorium on suburban sprawl and truly focus on improving the standard of living in CT, and the focus must be on the cities. No more highways, no more strip malls.

Just last night, as I sat in a bus from Manhattan to Hartford, I witnessed the great masses crawling home along congested highways to their beloved suburbs, and I wanted to jump out and take a quick poll of how many would rather walk to work and back, how many would rather be with their children an extra hour and a half a day, how many would prefer Bushnell Park to .2 acres as their backyard. I certainly would.

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I agree with everyone here to an extent and do not encourage sprawl. But let's face the fact that industries tend to cluster in any state, or region or whatever. In our state tourism, entertainment, gambling, and defense have found a home in SE CT. I say keep those things in that region in order to make that one region as strong as possible on those fronts.

I have to disagree that this project or any of the projects will be bad for Hartford, because I can attest that the casinos are good corporate neighbors to Hartford, they sponsor many if not most of Hartford's events. I believe that Utopia will be a good corporate citizen for the state as well. I did not mean to sound too defensive by calling virgo a pessimist, but we just have a slightly different view on this thing.

The Hartford area will always draw business people and sports fans, now alot of them while in Hartford choose to visit the tourism areas of SE CT and vice versa. It just gives people visiting CT more options. I really don't feel like that region is really competing with Hartford, and I live in the North End and we damn sure don't want this behemoth in an already congested urban area, I think where they're putting it is perfect, It's Utopian actually. I like the ring that Preston has as an East Coast alternative to Hollywood, that's just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree, I encourage debate.

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I agree with everyone here to an extent and do not encourage sprawl. But let's face the fact that industries tend to cluster in any state, or region or whatever. In our state tourism, entertainment, gambling, and defense have found a home in SE CT. I say keep those things in that region in order to make that one region as strong as possible on those fronts.

I have to disagree that this project or any of the projects will be bad for Hartford, because I can attest that the casinos are good corporate neighbors to Hartford, they sponsor many if not most of Hartford's events. I believe that Utopia will be a good corporate citizen for the state as well. I did not mean to sound too defensive by calling virgo a pessimist, but we just have a slightly different view on this thing.

The Hartford area will always draw business people and sports fans, now alot of them while in Hartford choose to visit the tourism areas of SE CT and vice versa. It just gives people visiting CT more options. I really don't feel like that region is really competing with Hartford, and I live in the North End and we damn sure don't want this behemoth in an already congested urban area, I think where they're putting it is perfect, It's Utopian actually. I like the ring that Preston has as an East Coast alternative to Hollywood, that's just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree, I encourage debate.

You know what...I'm not going to start some meaningless debate on this going back and forth like the convention thread. Convention centers suck $$ and almost never break even anywhere. There whole purpose is to bring people into the city and spend their $$ at other places to have some spinoff development. The Hartford CC is great for businesses AROUND the city. (arts, entertainment, restaurants, hotels etc. )Hartford is a great city that has built momentum and starting to gather attention with all the development in recent years. This is after the state of Connecticut has ignored its cities for years, encouraged sprawl, and never ever stepped to the city's aide when middle-class people were leaving in droves. That's right! They've shoved the social service sector down its own capital citys' throat. ..and now Hartford is full of social service agencies...poor, drug addicted, and diseased. Hartford has one of the highest HIV infections per capita and size than anywhere in N.E. (right along with Springfield...MA social service dumping ground) People like that idiot in one of those posts discouraging development along Farmington Ave. because she didn't want people from the suburbs(white people) moving in was the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. She would like the neighborhood to be overrun with crackheads, wanna-be gangstas, and ghetto people just like its been for years.

Hartford IS turning a corner and it can't be manipulated by idiots like that lady or a state that has neglected Hartford since before you and I were born Tycoon. The state only is interested in the state. ...just like a few years ago when R.I. governor Lincoln Almond built the Ryan Center in So. Kingstown 25 miles away from Providence. He hated the then mayor and built something that directly competes with the Dunkin Donuts Center. Now they host all the URI games, have concerts, and have created a sprawl nightmare down a once rural area. ...and they've sucked the lfe out of a Civic Center that now, ironically, is undergoing millions and millions of dollars in repair. The voters of RI approved this project at the time because Providence was a ain in the ass for many people who left and moved to the suburbs and outlying areas. They would rather get in their SUV's and have a big parking lot to go to...and now the city is reshaping itself to bring back the people that left years ago...to visit and to live...and it's working. We are one of few cities in the U.S. that has had its population increase.

Hartford is not in that class yet. Their population has dwindled tens of thousands in the past 20 years alone. This Utopia project is in an area that is no where near Hartford to help it out economically. If they fly into Bradley( which people will probably do), they will hop on 291 to 84 and bypass the city altogether. Building hotels, convention centers, and big retail in that area will directly compete with Hartford. It's good for the state and terrible for the city. The economic benefits to Hartford will be minimal.I believe that buiding this project THERE is not responsible and will leave Hartford in the dust...struggling once again..much like it has in the past with urban renewal efforts. Hartford is trying to get an identity that it has lost because of shortsighted politics. The percetion of the city is changing somewhat on a state perspective. Keep that momentum going...but for people outside CT when they ask , " What's the biggest city in CT?" ...and you answer Bridgeport...it's got to be embarrasing....that all economic activity and prowess comes from a NYC exodus and not from its own capital city...That's my opinion and I hope the voters of CT shoot this down or pick another location .....

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virgo -- Bridgeport has been CTs largest city for a long time. There is nothing embarrassing about it. That's just silly. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Hartford was a boomtown in the 80's and had a downturn in the 90's. It's having another boom. Utopia will little effect on Hartford except to fill the states tax coffers. That will be a net plus.

If it helps to build airport traffic, that will be a plus as well.

Hartford is an amazing little city. Few its size can even come close to its economic power and cultural assets.

The trend in the last few decades had all cities gettting poorer. Over the next few years all cities will get larger and richer. That is a mega-trend. It has nothing to do with Hartford or Providence. We are just boats rising and falling with a much larger tide.

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Virgo, settle down...we all live in and around Hartford, and in most cases we know a lot more about what is going on in Hartford than you do. Don't take offense to that, it's just a simple fact.

On the point about Bridgeport, who cares. Many states have small, relatively unknown cities as their largest cities. Take Florida as an example...Jacksonville is MUCH larger than Miami, but anyone with half a brain knows that Jacksonville is not Florida's largest city. Although B-port and Hartford are similar in area, the broken up Bridgeport-Stamford metro consists of around 900,000 people. As you well know, Hartford metro is over 1.2 million. City populations are a thing of the very distant past.

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Virgo, settle down...we all live in and around Hartford, and in most cases we know a lot more about what is going on in Hartford than you do. Don't take offense to that, it's just a simple fact.

On the point about Bridgeport, who cares. Many states have small, relatively unknown cities as their largest cities. Take Florida as an example...Jacksonville is MUCH larger than Miami, but anyone with half a brain knows that Jacksonville is not Florida's largest city. Although B-port and Hartford are similar in area, the broken up Bridgeport-Stamford metro consists of around 900,000 people. As you well know, Hartford metro is over 1.2 million. City populations are a thing of the very distant past.

Like I said, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to one....and I visit Hartford quite often as I've lived there in the past as well....and Bridgeport was never the biggest city in CT. Hartford always was until about 1990. I think I bring some very valid points to the table and you could go on and on about metro and people and size and you're entitled to your opinion. ( even if you live in L. Island) You are not looking at the big picture , but you wouldn't be the last one to ever think like that. That's why we're in a neverending war in Iraq, Pat Robertson is allowed to make blasphemous remarks because he's a " Christian " , and the Armory in Providence sits and rots. Again, I understand this is UP and not Hardball Live, so I won't pull a Bill O'Reilly and force my opinion down anyone's throat...

I'm ready to end my involvement in this discussion as I can see no one that regularly contributes to this forum has even remotely thought of the consequences of this project. I suppose optimism is a great asset to have when you look at everything through a big happy face. After a while, it becomes very annoying when everyone agrees with everything that's built and no one has any input to how they feel about something.....effects....

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Like I said, it's my opinion and I'm entitled to one....and I visit Hartford quite often as I've lived there in the past as well....and Bridgeport was never the biggest city in CT. Hartford always was until about 1990. I think I bring some very valid points to the table and you could go on and on about metro and people and size and you're entitled to your opinion. ( even if you live in L. Island) You are not looking at the big picture , but you wouldn't be the last one to ever think like that. That's why we're in a neverending war in Iraq, Pat Robertson is allowed to make blasphemous remarks because he's a " Christian " , and the Armory in Providence sits and rots. Again, I understand this is UP and not Hardball Live, so I won't pull a Bill O'Reilly and force my opinion down anyone's throat...

I'm ready to end my involvement in this discussion as I can see no one that regularly contributes to this forum has even remotely thought of the consequences of this project. I suppose optimism is a great asset to have when you look at everything through a big happy face. After a while, it becomes very annoying when everyone agrees with everything that's built and no one has any input to how they feel about something.....effects....

virgo:

You have valid thoughts on many issues, but you express them in a very confrontational and hostile manner. I really wish you would take a deep breath before you post. Your posts tend to put people on the defensive. We should be having discussions here, not arguements. Your valid points tend to get lost in the detritus of extraneous ranting that has nothing to do with the subject at hand (I hate Pat Robertson as much as the next guy, but what does he have to do with Utopia?).

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virgo:

You have valid thoughts on many issues, but you express them in a very confrontational and hostile manner. I really wish you would take a deep breath before you post. Your posts tend to put people on the defensive. We should be having discussions here, not arguements. Your valid points tend to get lost in the detritus of extraneous ranting that has nothing to do with the subject at hand (I hate Pat Robertson as much as the next guy, but what does he have to do with Utopia?).

Pat Robertson said that if they build Utopia....God will not heed their cries...much like Dover, Delaware...... :rofl: ......

P.S....It must be that time of month..you know how we people sometimes get a little overexcited...I'll kill the metaphors..

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OK. Real quick, just some points that I feel need to be mentioned. Has anyone ever heard of industry clusters? You cluster related businesses in one area to build cohevise economic regions. Tourism, Gaming, Entertainment, defense, and bio medical, have found a home in SE CT. That's good, I say continue the trend and let the New London area economy flourish. Hartford has one of the largest concentrations of Insurance and Financial services companies in the country, as well as UTC providing a large aerospace industry, let's build on that in our region, we don't need or want mega projects like this in the urban areas of Hartford County. If it's good for the state and the probability of success is better due to strategic location in a tourism area I condsider a smart move. Do you not see the undeniable logic of putting this thing across the street from Mohegan Sun and around the corner from Foxwoods?

SE CT is close enough to Hartford, New Haven, Bridgeport, Springfield, Providence, and even Boston to have effects on the overall southern New England region. The more recreational choices we have in our backyard, the better our quality of life is and the more likely corporations will once again move into New England. We need attractions, people pass on New England because it is percieved as boring, expensive, and difficult to do business in. We need to start using common sense here, Industry Clusters, Recreational options , and transportation improvements are paramount to achieving economic viability.

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Well, there seems to be no further debate over the placement of this development, that's good since I feel the location is perfect. Utopian to be exact. Anyway here's an article from today's New London Day about the continued progress being made and getting the development agreement in place. BTW did anyone see Foxwoods expansion plans. It looks great, but there building a rather large Convention Center, midway Between Hartford's and Providence's, I wonder how that's gonna work out for everyone.

Preston Inches Closer To Agreement With Utopia

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Well, there seems to be no further debate over the placement of this development, that's good since I feel the location is perfect. Utopian to be exact. Anyway here's an article from today's New London Day about the continued progress being made and getting the development agreement in place. BTW did anyone see Foxwoods expansion plans. It looks great, but there building a rather large Convention Center, midway Between Hartford's and Providence's, I wonder how that's gonna work out for everyone.

Preston Inches Closer To Agreement With Utopia

<It looks great, but there building a rather large Convention Center, midway Between Hartford's and Providence's, I wonder how that's gonna work out for everyone>

Put 2 and 2 together......DISASTER! yu know what though...I'm really not worried about Utopia because this has just as much chance getting built as the 2000' tower in Lynn...

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yu know what though...I'm really not worried about Utopia because this has just as much chance getting built as the 2000' tower in Lynn...

What makes you say that? I'm one of the more skeptical people about this project, but even I know that this has a 50/50 chance of getting off the ground.

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<It looks great, but there building a rather large Convention Center, midway Between Hartford's and Providence's, I wonder how that's gonna work out for everyone>

Put 2 and 2 together......DISASTER! yu know what though...I'm really not worried about Utopia because this has just as much chance getting built as the 2000' tower in Lynn...

I was thinking that it could be bad, but who knows maybe it will work out. It's worse for RI than CT I think since CT will have two world class facilities that will be newer and most likey larger than the RI convention center. Although, many may not want to hold a meeting in a Casino Resort. It's definately getting a little saturated around here with convention centers though.

About Utopia, we all just have to watch and wait now.....We both have to keep our fingers crossed, although for opposite sides of the debate.

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I was thinking that it could be bad, but who knows maybe it will work out. It's worse for RI than CT I think since CT will have two world class facilities that will be newer and most likey larger than the RI convention center. Although, many may not want to hold a meeting in a Casino Resort. It's definately getting a little saturated around here with convention centers though.

About Utopia, we all just have to watch and wait now.....We both have to keep our fingers crossed, although for opposite sides of the debate.

<It's worse for RI than CT I think since CT will have two world class facilities that will be newer and most likey larger than the RI convention center.>

Are you serious ? You're optimism is admirable, but unrealistic .....I can't comment on this subject anymore because my beloved neighbors over the border in CT have been blinded by the light of political persuasiveness...( believing everything they hear )

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<It's worse for RI than CT I think since CT will have two world class facilities that will be newer and most likey larger than the RI convention center.>

Are you serious ? You're optimism is admirable, but unrealistic .....I can't comment on this subject anymore because my beloved neighbors over the border in CT have been blinded by the light of political persuasiveness...( believing everything they hear )

I actually believe very little of what I hear, politically speaking. I do however believe that Utopia is a sound Economic Development for the area that it's proposed in. I don't think it would be viable too many other places. I think it will happen now that the state is involved and salivating over the prospect of 22,000 new jobs and billions in tax revenue. I think it's not realistic to think that this will not happen, the economic demand is there. We will know for sure very soon whether or not Utopia is really coming and I am anxious myself to see shovels in the ground and cranes in the sky.

I really don't like the Foxwood's Convention Center idea, but there's nothing anyone can do to stop them. We just have to hope that all 3 centers can flourish, and if not we then someone's going to be in serious financial trouble.

Either way I am optimistic about the future of our region, CT in particular and Hartford specifically. I'm ready for Hollywood if they're really coming, but if not, I can't miss something that was not here in the first place.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's an article from today's Courant detailing the state's stepped up efforts to entice the entertainment industry. It also talks about how how hot RI is and about the tax breaks they recently put into effect. I know I have said it a million times but this is a real billion dollar industry we are trying to build here. If these film studios are built it will be great for New England.

Courant Hollywood Article

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OK, Maybe I'm beating a dead horse, but I am totally fixated and betting on these projects. Here goes some more articles.

TV Show Pilot set for Connecticut

Lawmakers try to make CT Film Friendly

Utopia eying property in Plainfield

The Debate

And you should. Who knows what Utopia could mean for Eastern Connecticut? I also hope the other proposed studio facilities in North Stonington happen as well. I've been through much of southeastern CT. It dosen't feel like a lot goes on there outside of the casinos and the Mystic area. Adding in these studios and theme parks can only benefit the area. Don't forget, few people outside of Florida knew where Orlando was before Walt Disney decided to build a huge theme park there. I think we need to give this a chance.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Here's a new article from today's Courant talking about how filmakers are filming in CT and starting to wake up to the fact that there is huge movie making potential here in CT. I'm gonna keep doing my part on this page to raise awareness that this is an avenue that the state needs to pursue. Write your state representative. I know I'll be talking to mine as he lives around the corner from me.

Lights, Camera, Connecticut!!

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such a great project for CT and southern new england as a whole.

I hope this isn't stalled any longer than it needs to be.

Well, it's great to see support for it from the RI side of things. I think this will be great for you guys as well. I honestly think if this is built they will film an unimaginable volume of commercials, TV Shows, Movies, Videos, ect. in the New England Area. Just Imagine Boston being a common setting for movies, or even Hartford and Providence. We are ready for this. C'mon let's get this friggin thing off the ground already!!!

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yea.. another thing that comes to mind is that Utopia could attract all of those hopeful hollywood wannbees to the East coast instead of the West to some degree.

If Utopia were to become a huge success... i'm sure it would create a snowball affect in so many different ways.

Kind of exciting when you think about it. I just hope we dont start building massive 8-lane highways to access this area of CT.

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