Metro Orlando Headlines

[RedStar25]

Yeah,much better to have 15 year old illegal immigrants work cheaper. That's Capitalism baby! Democracy should only go so far, eh?

Exactly... and that is where the reall minimum wage is.... not this bologna wage the congress keeps raising.

[RedStar25]

Are you suggesting we get rid of the US Post Office, too? Isn't that in the same predicament? I know it was.

On a personal note, I booked a pair of Amtrak tickets for my girlfriend and I to visit her mother in Raleigh this Thanksgiving. I will be overnight travel. There are advantages. No security BS like the airport. Closer drive vs. the airport. Cheaper. Way more legroom. I can plug in my laptop and while I cannot get wifi, I can play chess vs. the computer. Dining car with bar (hells yeah).

Well who's the best at devliering mail the post office or their competitors? (minus DHL...ugh)

The trip to North Carolina sounds like it would be fun.

[bulldogger]

Well who's the best at devliering mail the post office or their competitors? (minus DHL...ugh)

The trip to North Carolina sounds like it would be fun.

Well, you get what you pay for. I can't get a letter out with any of the competitors for 41 cents or whatever it is.

I never used Amtrak, so I'll give everyone my review of their services when after the holiday.

[neon9]

But roads don't lose money. They just need to be maintained. They do not have nearly the staff overhead that mass transit does. Amtrac is unionised. The union has over inflated the pay rate and price of oversite.... thus adding to Amtracs wows.

In the bill I mentioned 15 billion will go to amtrac over the next 5 years. Amtrac now loses MORE than 3 Billion a year. They can not sustain themselves.

And it's not exactly nationwide. I mean the vast majority of amtrac is located from the Mid Atlantic up into the north east.

Amtrac is one of those funny goverment/private company combos that just don't work.

A good example of a goverment/private company that can sustain itself is our own Expressway system or Phillidephia's SPETA.

JFW657... Why are you doing business with companies that "rape" you? You have the right to do business with anyone you want... no ones forcing you. Ever herd of caveat emptor? And what's wrong with making money? Don't you want to achive a higher social standing in life? I do.

3 Billion a year? Just like your previous claim of 80 billion, this one seems unsupported by the facts.

Amtrak Budget Needs

Looks like about a 1.2 billion yearly operating loss. Notice in their list of financial issues, they don't mention one of the obstacles to becoming more self sufficient being labor contracts or costs.

Your complaint that it's mostly in the NE ignores the fact that with the better service they offer there, they naturally get more business. The semi-high speed run from NY to Boston is actually profitable. So what do some Republicans do? They want to sell off the one profitable part of our public rail transport system to cynically kill off the rest.

If you look at the actual costs of roads, and how much maintenance they need after being constructed, it is much more than just cutting the grass once a month. The ASCE says we should be spending billions more on roads and bridges just to make existing ones safe. 10 billion is transferred from the general fund to the highway trust fund every year (and it's almost out of money again) and that still doesn't make it 'profitable'.

According to their reports, Philly's SEPTA is subsidized to the tune of 33%, or $500,000, of their yearly budget. Compare that to Amtrak....not that much difference!

[RedStar25]

Your missing my point.... and why do you keep bringing up republicans?

Read the house and senate bill on amtrac that should clear things up.

Your link isn't working for me by the way.

Of course they wouldn't list the payroll as being a problem.... beacuse they are part of the union. You need an outside observer to run an audit on them.

I said that the bill was only to keep amtrac running... not improve...not expand....and would cost over 15 billion in the next few years.

Amtrac is located mostly in the north east... it doesnt do our proposed rail system a bit of good.

We have already spent 30 Billion on Amtrac since its begining... and we are about to pump in a whole lot more money into it thats where the 80 billion is coming from. In my haste I didnt make that clear.

I took my numbers from the Bill in the House and Senate.

There are a hell of alot more roads out there than there are publicly owned rail lines. So the numbers your using to compare roads to rails are still way off.

Amtrac is more than %100 subsidized by the goverment... and SEPTA last i checked was cut off from all state (PA) funding.

Edited September 19, 2008 by RedStar25

[neon9]

Your missing my point.... and why do you keep bringing up republicans?

Read the house and senate bill on amtrac that should clear things up.

Your link isn't working for me by the way.

Of course they wouldn't list the payroll as being a problem.... beacuse they are part of the union. You need an outside observer to run an audit on them.

I said that the bill was only to keep amtrac running... not improve...not expand....and would cost over 15 billion in the next few years.

Amtrac is located mostly in the north east... it doesnt do our proposed rail system a bit of good.

We have already spent 30 Billion on Amtrac since its begining... and we are about to pump in a whole lot more money into it thats where the 80 billion is coming from. In my haste I didnt make that clear.

I took my numbers from the Bill in the House and Senate.

There are a hell of alot more roads out there than there are publicly owned rail lines. So the numbers your using to compare roads to rails are still way off.

Amtrac is more than %100 subsidized by the goverment... and SEPTA last i checked was cut off from all state (PA) funding.

The reason I mention Republicans is because, again, they are the ones fighting Amtrak in Congress. I'm not aware of democrats supporting the effort to kill Amtrak or privitize it. By the way, the report is available for me and is written by:

Statement of

David Tornquist

Assistant Inspector General

Competition and Economic Analysis

U.S. Department of Transportation, Office

of Inspector General

so I'm not sure he's the union hack you might think.

I think I get your point, I just don't happen to agree. Maybe you'll continue to feel the same way, but lets look at something real quick:

The facts are that all forms of transportation are subsidized-air, car and train. The numbers are so 'dense' that it's tough to say who gets more from which group. But they are all subsidized (SEPTA gets that money from some government, be it State or City). That is the point that myself and others who have commented previously have tried to make.

I think we'd all love to have a train system that works as well as the one in, say, France, and it would be great if it made money but that just isn't going to happen. I guess we just need to decide if we're going to invest in rail transportation seriously or we just let Amtrak fold (except for maybe the NE Cooridor) and forget about it (by the way the most recent bill does fund some capitol improvements).

One thing that I do know is that train travel is much more efficient that either air or car travel. With electric trains, they could be powered by windmills or solar panels. They can carry thousands of people an hour on ROW that could barely contain a two lane road. With concrete ties, they can last for over 50 years with little maintenance (compare that to a 4 lane highway). They are safer, and stations can be located in town.

We're obviously talking past each other with the budget numbers (I think it would have been more accurate to say at the current rate we will put $80 Bil into Amtrak by 2050), but the above issues really mean more to me anyway.

How can something be subsidized more than 100%?

Edited September 19, 2008 by neon9

[Boomer136]

I do not understand your comparison of a conductor on Amtrak making $75K a year plus full benefits (more then a pilot on AirTran makes) to punch tickets, to "15 year old illegal immigrants work cheaper". Just what is your point? Redstar does have a point that with salaries that average $59K per year on Amtrak, it will never be able to cover the expenses of running passanger trains. Tickets are ridiculously overpriced to cover these salaries. Who in their right mind would pay $250 one way to Orlando from New York City when you can fly for about half of that (or drive for that matter)??? Railroad travel should be affordable to the average person in order to get people to use it and get them out of their cars. Im all for subsidizing rail travel for the better good of our society and the enviornment but the rail unions ARE crushing Amtrak and its ability to compete with other forms of transportation. If these unions had any sense they would see that by making Amtrak unaffordable, less people will use it and therefore, less trains will run with fewer union members employed.

First shall be last regarding the job of a conductor and your after school special understanding of it.

Second, unions provide professional craftspeople, and protect them from the whims and idiocy of management. The people who put hands/tools on the money maker add value, most cubicle jockeys could be more rightly looked at as overhead. I will go so far as to state that US management has been having worse and worse success. Foreign owned corporations find American workers skilled and innovative and seem to be successful with their unionized members. As recent failures show, I say look toward the white collar types for inefficiencies.

Regarding the punched ticket:

Education and Training: High school plus training

Salary Median

[FrigginGr8est]

First shall be last regarding the job of a conductor and your after school special understanding of it.

Second, unions provide professional craftspeople, and protect them from the whims and idiocy of management. The people who put hands/tools on the money maker add value, most cubicle jockeys could be more rightly looked at as overhead. I will go so far as to state that US management has been having worse and worse success. Foreign owned corporations find American workers skilled and innovative and seem to be successful with their unionized members. As recent failures show, I say look toward the white collar types for inefficiencies.

Regarding the punched ticket:

Education and Training: High school plus training

Salary Median

[RedStar25]

I think we'd all love to have a train system that works as well as the one in, say, France, and it would be great if it made money but that just isn't going to happen.

How can something be subsidized more than 100%?

Well Im glad to see you agree that the ultimate goal would be for it to be self sustaining.... I was worried for a moment.

And I was rushing to a class as I wrote my reply and on my way to class I thought.... hmmm how can somthing be subsidized more than 100%

It is is not true that by constantly bailing out failing businesses we are in fact encouraging them not to improve or change.

Businesses need to fail in order to be rebuilt and expand. Its apart of the cyclical cycle of capitalism.

Lets get back to talking about Orlando's headlines... I'm kinda over this subject.

[Boomer136]

LMFAO, and again, what is your point? That you know how to Google and use Wikipedia? Good for you. Now, try to learn how interpret the information that you were able to look up. First, as far as conductors, I apologize for leaving out the jr high school level reports they must submit after punching tickets, such as passenger counts and how many pieces of chewing gum were under the seats. With overtime and shift differential, the average conductor makes around $75K of which around $50K is regular pay. According to my after school special training, a first officer is a pilot, and, therefore earns (with my lightning speed second grade education math) about the same (less for several years of his career) as a super hero conductor.

I will refrain from getting into a discussion with you regarding how great unions are for this country and how terrible management is. I will leave that for you to discuss with other communists/leftists at the coffee shop. Now, I must depart, there's a new after school special on the success of the Soviet Union.

Yes, I know how to do research. Wikipedia is not a primary source, and I would suggest you refraining from using it, and Lexis Nexis and Jstor are far better places to search. If you have issue with the numbers or info, please specify and I will dig the reference out for you.

Also, kudos on your ability to comprehend that people who work more hours in a week may make more money than those who take more time off regardless of a disparity in the hourly rates. Stunning math skills indeed. Remember overtime is not a bonus for the worker, but rather a penalty on the employer arising mostly from poor scheduling and/or staffing. The more efficient way of course is not to pay overtime,but have a larger staff that works in straight time. Overtime is compensation to an hourly worker working longer as apposed to 'comp' time given to salaried workers. Is this the information you felt I had difficulty in interpreting?

Regarding unions, perhaps some research other than AM radio on your part may enlighten you. I find my communist buddies pretty much as tedious, lacking insight, and possessing a Peter Pan like belief in their position as you do. As an aside the Soviet Union never really formed a communist society, they only achieved a nominal 'dictatorship of the proletariat' which was truly a revolutionary dictatorship with marketing. Perhaps a look at religious experiments like New Harmony Indiana shows better the failings of a communistic society.

What union problems caused the destruction of Enron, Worldcom, Bears Stern, Lehman Brothers, or Merrill Lynch? Unions, if you haven't noticed have indeed been working with employers to come up with solutions. It is in everybody's interest for companies to continue so everyone makes a living. Meanwhile outsourcing has lead to some expensive problems, the most recent the sending of thousands of babies into kidney failure. But I'm sure some genius bean counter showed how cheap it would be.

I will refrain from discussing further labor issues with you regarding the whiner US management types who throw their workers under the bus for their own failings and the top management teams who have no insurmountable problems with unions. I will leave that for you to discuss around the water cooler by the copy room with your... well I don't know who you are, nor am able to make a sweeping generalization about you or your compatriots on what little evidence that can be gleaned from an internet post.

I must go now to read a book.

Edited September 20, 2008 by Boomer136

[bic]

Will eco-friendly development without sprawl be Orlando area's destiny?

Orlando Sentinel Article

[sunshine]

That's a great idea on urban development. But the development itself is a sprawl by-product. I hope they will not build it and let that "clean slate" remains clean.

[Jaybee]

A fly-in executive airport, a distribution center, more single family homes.... Destiny, with more attorneys and barely a single designers on our roster, is the antidote to sprawl in the backwaters of Central Florida. Yeah right.

[JRS1]

good points.

if I'm not mistaken, isn't this a Mormon development? I know they own a boatload of land SE of OIA in Osceola and there's a master plan under development right now. knowing how the operate, I wouldn't be surprised if Mormon-owned banks were the lenders for those mortgages.

[Jaybee]

This is NOT the "mormon development". There is a DRI called Camino Reale south of ICP (which the church bought). There is a preliminary meeting on the ADA with the RPC on the DRI very soon. Camino is a small portion of the Deseret Ranch property owned by the Church. Wayne Rich (and at one time, Hal Kantor) were representing the Church back when the County Commission was last considering the property earlier this year on the change to the urban services boundary. Four Million Square feet of office development on a small corner of one of the (non) Innovation Way corridors.

Edited September 25, 2008 by Jaybee

[bulldogger]

Isn't this the place that was supposed to be developed in south Osceola that they were claiming to bring jobs and homes and be a great place because it will be close to Vero Beach? Now they have changed their marketing plan to be eco-friendly and green?

[cwetteland]

How is more unneeded development any greener than no development, or actually pouring resources into refurbishing what is there now?

For that matter, am I the only one worried that there really is not enough demand right now for yet another major residential development? WE are in a credit lending crisis. People aren't going to be clamoring for new homes. Sometimes I just don't understand what they are thinking.

I'm not at all worried about the demand because I really don't care if the developers go bankrupt. It could have all the damand in the world and I wouldn't want it built. It's in the middle of nowhere. It sucks for the environment. It is by definition "sprawl."

[neon9]

Well Im glad to see you agree that the ultimate goal would be for it to be self sustaining.... I was worried for a moment.

No, I said that it would never happen. So it's unrealistic to expect it to. In other first world countries that's a given.

The ultimate goal is to serve as many people as efficently as possible. That's it.

Anyhoo...

I hope Osceola is not desperate enough to approve this 'Destiny' boondoggle.

Edited September 25, 2008 by neon9

[tennis32801]

A mini-endorsement of orlando from a semi celebrity

http://orlando.metromix.com/movies/article.../629864/content

[JRS1]

A mini-endorsement of orlando from a semi celebrity

http://orlando.metromix.com/movies/article.../629864/content

what's the EO Inn? is it a bed and breakfast?

[bulldogger]

It is the small inn at the corner of Eola Drive and Robinson. It used to be Orlando's youth hostel and now houses a Panera's in the bottom floor. They try to market themselves as an inn and spa.

[spenser1058]

It is the small inn at the corner of Eola Drive and Robinson. It used to be Orlando's youth hostel and now houses a Panera's in the bottom floor. They try to market themselves as an inn and spa.

It's a Phil Rampy project, assuming he and Craig and others haven't sold it off (I haven't heard if they have). A bit of history - before it was the Orlando Youth Hostel, it was a bit of a flophouse for quite a while. Before that, it housed the YMCA prior to their move over to Mills and Amelia.

[RedStar25]

It's a Phil Rampy project, assuming he and Craig and others haven't sold it off (I haven't heard if they have). A bit of history - before it was the Orlando Youth Hostel, it was a bit of a flophouse for quite a while. Before that, it housed the YMCA prior to their move over to Mills and Amelia.

I remeber when it was a Youth Hostel... all the kids hanging out front smoking... walkin around the lake.

Edited September 27, 2008 by RedStar25

[scottb411]

what's the EO Inn? is it a bed and breakfast?

http://www.eoinn.com/

[demon]

How is more unneeded development any greener than no development, or actually pouring resources into refurbishing what is there now?

For that matter, am I the only one worried that there really is not enough demand right now for yet another major residential development? WE are in a credit lending crisis. People aren't going to be clamoring for new homes. Sometimes I just don't understand what they are thinking.

I'm actually in the market for my first place. The banks have totally screwed me over because of what they did a few years ago. I have inmpeccable credit and I'm having trouble finding a place that isn't asking for 20% down and is FHA approved.