Davenport University

[Yankee Fan]

At the risk of having things thrown at me...

I am actually okay with this move. Other than GRCC, all of the colleges listed in a previous post do not have their main campuses downtown. I would take a guess that, in the end, Davenport will still have a decent presence DT.

A lot of their students take their classes online/telcommuting. Their Caledonia campus is not that far off of the beaten path. And I would like to believe that there are many uses for their current buildings downtown.

I just do not really see the big deal with this. Up until this announcement, I have not heard one person mention DT development and growth & Davenport in the same breath.

[CK1]

I just do not really see the big deal with this. Up until this announcement, I have not heard one person mention DT development and growth & Davenport in the same breath.

I had never envisioned Davenport as being one of the 'major' presenses downtown (especially considering that they were on the fringe of downtown as it was), but at the same time, every time that an entity that does have a significant presense within the City bolts for sprawling pastures (most UP'ers are very much against sprawl, me included), even if it is only 40 or 50 jobs lost, it still hurts the City, and especially its image (all those suburbanites that will assume its just more flight from crime and despair...those that have no idea what downtown and the City really are like).

While one large company (1,000 employees) would really help the downtown explode in growth, we are likely not going to see that. So, as a different strategy, 20 companies with 50 employees are needed, and losing one of those 20 hurts, any way you want to look at it.

[Yankee Fan]

I had never envisioned Davenport as being one of the 'major' presenses downtown (especially considering that they were on the fringe of downtown as it was), but at the same time, every time that an entity that does have a significant presense within the City bolts for sprawling pastures (most UP'ers are very much against sprawl, me included), even if it is only 40 or 50 jobs lost, it still hurts the City, and especially its image (all those suburbanites that will assume its just more flight from crime and despair...those that have no idea what downtown and the City really are like).

While one large company (1,000 employees) would really help the downtown explode in growth, we are likely not going to see that. So, as a different strategy, 20 companies with 50 employees are needed, and losing one of those 20 hurts, any way you want to look at it.

I respectfully disagree. Even at its best, when we are attracting companies, it will always be a three steps forward two step back process. In terms of jobs, they are staying in the area. They are not going out of state, just Caledonia (although to say that they are relocating down the street from Alaska would not be a stretch).

Regardless, I understand and respect your point of view. I am just saying that I do not view it as doom and gloom. It is what it is. These types of things will continue to happen as they do in all urban areas. Just another opportunity for fresh ideas to be brought to the table.

[Mark Miller]

Amidst heavy criticism, Davenport to completely vacate Fulton St campus

"There's no question the growth is going to be out there," Lettinga said.

"To me, whether if on M-6 or downtown, to me you're all part of Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids is not the city of Grand Rapids. It's Wyoming, it's Kentwood, it's Byron Center. That's where most of our traditional students come from."

I haven't seen a lot of other development around the M-6/Broadmoor interchange, other than Davenport. The office park where Farmers/Foremost is has been 75% vacant for at least a decade. He's dreaming. They're trying to "create" growth, not be part of a growth area. And Caledonia Twp is not thrilled by their new campus expansion plans, because they have no full time fire/police and other services set up currently. Gee, Caledonia doesn't want them to expand, GR wants them to stay, what's the problem?

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

Here they are trying to "sell" their expansion to Caledonia officials:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss....xml&coll=6

In regard to what could possibly take over the Fulton St. Campus:

"It would be a neat higher ed quadrant. We have a medical mile, and we could have nice little area where students are being served," said Flechsig, Davenport president since 2000.

Yeah, for a school like......Davenport.

These quotes from this bozo make me ill.

"To me, whether if on M-6 or downtown, to me you're all part of Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids is not the city of Grand Rapids. It's Wyoming, it's Kentwood, it's Byron Center. That's where most of our traditional students come from."

This guy just must be living on Mars. Grand Rapids is Grand Rapids. It is the only real urban area in the place he is talking about. It is the only place that allows for a more sustainable pedestrian oriented existence. Wyoming and Kentwood are first ring suburbs, with no real center - only edges. Byron Center - I am not sure what the hell it is, but I can assure you it is no Grand Rapids. He is forcing his students to carry a heavier burden by having to drive to BFE every day for class. He is choosing to destroy viable agricultural land in lieu of staying in the city. He is ultimately going to contribute more greenhouse gases to the already fragile environment by increasing miles traveled and number of trips.

"There is no question the growth is going to be out there?" I am not sure why there is no question. As an academic he should know the consequences of such things. Longer commutes, more commutes, more use of gas, more consumption of land and the subsequent sprawl that he and his organization will enable.

Oh well, I am sure they will build a LEED building out there to mitigate all these other environmental disasters they are contributing to. And then he can have a free and clear conscience.

[GRDadof3]

These quotes from this bozo make me ill.

"To me, whether if on M-6 or downtown, to me you're all part of Grand Rapids. Grand Rapids is not the city of Grand Rapids. It's Wyoming, it's Kentwood, it's Byron Center. That's where most of our traditional students come from."

This guy just must be living on Mars. Grand Rapids is Grand Rapids. It is the only real urban area in the place he is talking about. It is the only place that allows for a more sustainable pedestrian oriented existence. Wyoming and Kentwood are first ring suburbs, with no real center - only edges. Byron Center - I am not sure what the hell it is, but I can assure you it is no Grand Rapids. He is forcing his students to carry a heavier burden by having to drive to BFE every day for class. He is choosing to destroy viable agricultural land in lieu of staying in the city. He is ultimately going to contribute more greenhouse gases to the already fragile environment by increasing miles traveled and number of trips.

"There is no question the growth is going to be out there?" I am not sure why there is no question. As an academic he should know the consequences of such things. Longer commutes, more commutes, more use of gas, more consumption of land and the subsequent sprawl that he and his organization will enable.

Oh well, I am sure they will build a LEED building out there to mitigate all these other environmental disasters they are contributing to. And then he can have a free and clear conscience.

I wonder if Davenport will now add a Sustainability program like Aquinas, Calvin and GVSU? Wouldn't that be funny.

I have to disagree Yankee Fan. No, it's not doom and gloom (their decision to add the new campus out in Caledonia was a big enough blow by itself), but any institution that decides to move out of the city center is chipping away at the progress. It shouldn't be "three steps forward, two steps back". It should be 10 steps forward, two steps back (you're always going to have some attrition). If they are truly looking to add on to the online curriculum, why are they petitioning Caledonia Twp to greatly expand their campus? Adding a fieldhouse? I'm sure Caledonia is wondering if they are looking at another Cornerstone University, or even worse, GVSU sized campus out there. Seriously, if you're a student out there, it is BFE's ville way worse than Allendale. Caledonia, and any kind of shopping or amenities is 3 or 4 miles South. 28th Street is the only sizable area with any services to the North. I worked out there. The only place nearby to even get lunch is Subway in the gas station on Broadmoor near Patterson.

[Yankee Fan]

I wonder if Davenport will now add a Sustainability program like Aquinas, Calvin and GVSU? Wouldn't that be funny.

I have to disagree Yankee Fan. No, it's not doom and gloom (their decision to add the new campus out in Caledonia was a big enough blow by itself), but any institution that decides to move out of the city center is chipping away at the progress. It shouldn't be "three steps forward, two steps back". It should be 10 steps forward, two steps back (you're always going to have some attrition). If they are truly looking to add on to the online curriculum, why are they petitioning Caledonia Twp to greatly expand their campus? Adding a fieldhouse? I'm sure Caledonia is wondering if they are looking at another Cornerstone University, or even worse, GVSU sized campus out there. Seriously, if you're a student out there, it is BFE's ville way worse than Allendale. Caledonia, and any kind of shopping or amenities is 3 or 4 miles South. 28th Street is the only sizable area with any services to the North. I worked out there. The only place nearby to even get lunch is Subway in the gas station on Broadmoor near Patterson.

I just do not think that this is a bad thing. I realize that I am probably in the minority on this, but I think that it is going to be okay. And it would be great if it were 10 steps forward, two steps back. But that is not reality. I am just trying to point out that these things happen and will happen all of the time.

I never said that they were adding to the online tools. Not sure why you mentioned that. I am just saying that they have the right to move where they feel it will be the best for them. I have no problems with that. And they stayed in the area.

We all talk about DT proper and how GR is the only urban area. I agree with that. But we also have all "stretched" our definition of GR when quoting population numbers for attracting businesses to include the suburbs. And they are still a part of that and will continue to be a part of that.

All that I am saying is that I am okay with this move.

You know, now that you mention it, 10 steps forward, two steps back is about the right ratio: 1 billion in development including a medical school (10 steps forward) and Davenport moving (2 steps back).

[GRDadof3]

I just do not think that this is a bad thing. I realize that I am probably in the minority on this, but I think that it is going to be okay. And it would be great if it were 10 steps forward, two steps back. But that is not reality. I am just trying to point out that these things happen and will happen all of the time.

I never said that they were adding to the online tools. Not sure why you mentioned that. I am just saying that they have the right to move where they feel it will be the best for them. I have no problems with that. And they stayed in the area.

We all talk about DT proper and how GR is the only urban area. I agree with that. But we also have all "stretched" our definition of GR when quoting population numbers for attracting businesses to include the suburbs. And they are still a part of that and will continue to be a part of that.

All that I am saying is that I am okay with this move.

You know, now that you mention it, 10 steps forward, two steps back is about the right ratio: 1 billion in development including a medical school (10 steps forward) and Davenport moving (2 steps back).

Sorry, that was twoshort's post. My mind wrapped them all into one.

I hope you're right. I try to be optimistic, but it's such a unique campus that I have this sinking feeling that it will still be vacant 2 or 3 years from now. The only school I can see taking it over is GVSU. And Heritage Hill is HURTING for renters. There is a tremendous amount of vacancies right now.

[Yankee Fan]

Sorry, that was twoshort's post. My mind wrapped them all into one.

I hope you're right. I try to be optimistic, but it's such a unique campus that I have this sinking feeling that it will still be vacant 2 or 3 years from now. The only school I can see taking it over is GVSU. And Heritage Hill is HURTING for renters. There is a tremendous amount of vacancies right now.

I have tremendous faith in the creativity of developers in our town. The Founders deal is fresh in my mind. The B.O.B., the Woods, and American Seating are great examples, too. With the right encouragement and opportunity, I can see the Davenport property coming to life in a new form. Who knows, they may have interested parties already.

If there is one thing we have found that our city does well, it is to reuse good buildings and make them an even bigger part of their neighborhood.

[Veloise]

Sorry, that was twoshort's post. My mind wrapped them all into one.

I hope you're right. I try to be optimistic, but it's such a unique campus that I have this sinking feeling that it will still be vacant 2 or 3 years from now. The only school I can see taking it over is GVSU. And Heritage Hill is HURTING for renters. There is a tremendous amount of vacancies right now.

Any apartments available near that cornfield in Caledonia?

Didn't think so.

[LA Dave]

maybe UofM will want to expand into GR??? GO BLUE

While, as a double grad, I share your sentiments, I doubt that the University of Michigan has much interest in a GR campus. It already has satellite operations in Flint and Dearborn and neither, frankly, are very prestigious compared to the Ann Arbor original. At a time when state funding is declining, my guess is that the administration and Regents are more interested in beefing up the infrastructure of the Ann Arbor campus and in maintaining that campus' national ranking. And, of the universities that have expanded into GR, some suffer from being stuck in a small town (Ferris) while others have suffered from the growth of GVSU (Western Michigan). Neither of these factors is important to U-M.

There is no need to split up the professional or graduate schools; the Michigan medical school, for example, is a world-renowned institution that did not need the fund infusion that the much younger and less prestigious MSU medical school received when it announced a GR campus.

Traditionally, U-M has had a very tangential institutional relationship with Western Michigan. I don't see that changing in the next five to ten years.

[mifunboy]

Arn't they a for profit university, so they pay taxes right? So it would make sense for them to move outside GR.

It might be better for someone to attend a university with more credentials any how.

[joeDowntown]

I don't think it is so much bad as it is sad to see an institution with its roots downtown (J.A. Building) leave the core. While M-6 does make this closer for many, the central city is just that- central. If I lived in Walker, SW/NW/NE Grand Rapids, Rockford, Sparta, Cedar Springs (and the list goes on and on), Davenport University becomes much less of an option. I find it sad, and a little stupid, to bank on people changing their habits instead of just changing their University.

Caledonia doesn't want it, they've pissed off some of their benefactors, and have pushed the University a good 15 miles away from the core population. I just don't get it unless the president and board are on an egotistic "legacy building" (we built this campus from scratch!) trip.

[suydam]

Arn't they a for profit university, so they pay taxes right? So it would make sense for them to move outside GR.

It might be better for someone to attend a university with more credentials any how.

non-profit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davenport_University

[snoogit]

non-profit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davenport_University

They have a Hockey team? wow I didn't realize that.

I think the fact that they get lumped in with the University of Phoenix, and ITT Tech crowds is that they don't have eligibility reqs (other then a High School Diploma) am I right?

[Nitro]

I think the fact that they get lumped in with the University of Phoenix, and ITT Tech crowds is that they don't have eligibility reqs (other then a High School Diploma) am I right?

All of these places have eligibility requirements: (1 a heartbeat and (2 a checkbook. Number one can be waived a the administration's discretion.

[snoogit]

All of these places have eligibility requirements: (1 a heartbeat and (2 a checkbook. Number one can be waived a the administration's discretion.

All I'm saying is Davenport is more in line with schools like Baker College, and Cornerstone right? (Actually I think Davenport offers a HS diploma program) I won't bust the school though, its the school my parents went to.

[Mark Miller]

I don't think it matters one iota how big the campus is, who their demographic is, or how they compare to other universities. The only thing that matters is they are moving to the cornfields and that their perspective is "that is where the growth is going to occur". The fact that they will force their students to potentially commute more miles and that they will consume more resources is not acceptable for an institution of "higher learning" in this day and age.

Beyond that, there is now a substantial piece of property sitting in the middle of Heritage Hill, very close to downtown, on a high traffic street, with a 200+ car parking deck in place that has potential for development and an increased tax base for the city.

So what should go here?

[dbrok]

I'm not saying I agree with Davenport's decision to move out of downtown, but there is precedence for a similar move in Grand Rapids history. When Calvin College decided to expand from its Franklin Campus in the mid 1960s, they purchased Knollcrest Farm at Burton and the Beltline, which at the time seemed way out from the central core. Over time the Ridgemoor neighborhood filled in the empty space, 28th Street expanded and a decade or two later, Calvin was part of the city again. I imagine the same will be true eventually for Davenport. With the growth of Caledonia and the areas around M6, I'm sure by the year 2017 or 2027 all will be forgotten of the move and Davenport will be part of the city once more.

[eagle]

Boo

Get ready for more Subways, Quiznos, Arby's, McD's, Speedways, and Shells. I'd much prefer that as a student then a bunch of cool buildings, tree lined streets, unique restaurants, urban excitement, etc.

Go Davenport! Nothing like making the college "experience" seem more like another 4 years of high school!

[Rizzo]

It seems like a move is the right answer when you have advocates.

According to the Press:

Janessa Stroud was at the meeting representing the Grand Rapids Area Chamber of Commerce. She said the chamber supports the university and the economic development it will bring to Caledonia.

She said the group plans to work with Davenport when it moves out of its East Fulton site.

"Economic development is important to downtown, and we'll work with Davenport to ensure that space is used to do that downtown," she said.

Also backing Davenport's proposal was Ray DeWinkle, of The Right Place Inc., a regional economic development organization.

-- http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...&thispage=1

[GRDadof3]

It seems like a move is the right answer when you have advocates.

According to the Press:

-- http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/index.ss...&thispage=1

The Chamber can't come out publicly against the move. Many of their members are located outside the city center, and they don't want to risk alienating anyone. Davenport was probably fishing for anyone who would support them publicly and found the chamber, and sent the Press reporter over to get a quote. It's all pr posturing 101: damage control.

Much like Calvin moving out of the city was a blow to the Franklin area, this will also be a blow any way you slice it. Some people might think that we're Atlanta and can just absorb all that vacant space in the city, but there are very few options for that land. The best ideas in the world don't matter without viable tenants. It won't be residential, that's for sure. Since it's mainly set up for business classes, it doesn't provide anything special for medical teaching, biosciences or alternative energy research. Most of the buildings would probably have to be demolished or rebuilt, which would be difficult to do and preserve the character of the campus. I can't see it being commercial when there are vacancies downtown (although having all that parking helps )

Maybe it can be turned into a retirement village like the Metropolitan Hospital site? Like a Covenant Village, Porter Hills or Heather Hills?

[Mark Miller]

I'm not saying I agree with Davenport's decision to move out of downtown, but there is precedence for a similar move in Grand Rapids history. When Calvin College decided to expand from its Franklin Campus in the mid 1960s, they purchased Knollcrest Farm at Burton and the Beltline, which at the time seemed way out from the central core. Over time the Ridgemoor neighborhood filled in the empty space, 28th Street expanded and a decade or two later, Calvin was part of the city again. I imagine the same will be true eventually for Davenport. With the growth of Caledonia and the areas around M6, I'm sure by the year 2017 or 2027 all will be forgotten of the move and Davenport will be part of the city once more.

Using the 1960's as a precendence example seems like comparing apples and oranges. I think most would agree that almost every planning decision made during the 60's was a mistake, and now we are forced to deal with the ramifications of those mistakes at both ends of the spectrum, whether it be sprawl or the suburbanization of the city. The move of Calvin was a mistake...and Calvin (and the rest of the debris field on the Beltline) is certainly not part of the city in regards to walkability, connection, context, etc. Calvin is a commuter college, just like the GVSU Allendale campus and just like Davenport will become. All of these institutions have forced the excessive use of the automobile and reduced their ability to engage people without the car.

I know both Calvin and Allendale utilize the substandard transit system in this city, but the bottom line is that they both rely heavily on the auto. Davenport will not even be able to use the transit.

[DwntwnGeo]

I know both Calvin and Allendale utilize the substandard transit system in this city, but the bottom line is that they both rely heavily on the auto. Davenport will not even be able to use the transit.

Not that I agree with the move of the College, but isn't there already a bus shuttle out to Davenport like there is one for GVSU?

[snoogit]

Not that I agree with the move of the College, but isn't there already a bus shuttle out to Davenport like there is one for GVSU?

I'd be surprised, considering Davenport's student population is much smaller.

[DwntwnGeo]

I'd be surprised, considering Davenport's student population is much smaller.

Just checked www.ridetherapid.org and bus route "49" is the Davenport College shuttle. It runs along Fulton to Cascade to the Beltline and stops at Woodland Mall before continuing down to the campus at M6. I don't know how many riders it has on a daily basis though. If the Downtown campus is totally closed would The Rapid continue to run this line? Or does Davenport contribute any monies to support this line?