Metro Health Village - University of Michigan Health Systems

[Veloise]

It's not the speed at which the food is prepared, nor is it the quality of same. It's the additional requirements caused by a drive-through.

(former planner who reviewed such special land uses for "the other big city in Michigan")

Waiting cars cause access and stacking issues. If the parking lot and entry lanes are insufficient, the waiting vehicles can stack up on the public streets. Need proper turn radii for the drive-through (so all those big green SUVs can make the turns without hitting the walls or bollards). Need appropriate design so no one gets smucked walking through the parking lot and crossing the drive-up area.

A drive-up window also causes noise, light spillage, exhaust fumes, and so forth. (Don't get me started on parking lot litter, and the dangers of driving while chomping.) Additional landscaping and screening is often needed, but if the ground space is already covered by buildings, there's no room for it.

ETA: 49418 pointed out "...as it's on the border of residential area and directly across from a school driveway." This implies that there would be more safety issues with pedestrians and small children, as well as property values at stake. (Who wants to live near a drive-through? Who wants a bunch of waiting cars stacked on the street out front of their subdivision entrance?)

One of the toughest cases I handled was a request by a pizza place (the one already mentioned in this thread!) to retrofit an established building to add a drive-through. We sketched that out again and again, and it just wasn't going to work. Ironically, across the parking lot was a chain Rx with a designed drive-up, and there was plenty of turning, stacking, and maneuvering room.

HTH

Edited April 11, 2008 by Veloise

[Eridony]

The lines get a bit blurred when you consider restaurants like Culver's and Steak and Shake, which typically do have drive throughs. I think there's even the term "fast casual". Some things that might distinguish a fast casual from fast food would be if they brought the food to you, if their drive through usage was much lower than a typical fast food, more limited open hours, etc. The attorney for KFC was claiming their drive through only accounted for 35% of their business vs. 70%+ for McDonald's. And that their hours would be more limited.

But the argument of whether it should be perceived as fast food restaurant was largely irrelevant, because the particular zoning for that property does not allow a drive through for any food establishment. So a Culver's would not even be allowed. I don't think that pick up service (where they bring the food to your car) like you see with Applebee's, etc. would be allowed even. And I don't think that Wyoming has ever granted a variance for a drive through for that zoning code (B1 neighborhood business, a very common one).

So I'd think the lawsuit has no merit. Maybe they'll argue that the B1 zoning is unfair to prohibit drive throughs for only food service businesses (pharmacies, banks, etc. are allowed in B1). And they'll probably argue that the zoning no longer makes sense for the location, due to the large number of businesses in close proximity, most of which are under a different zoning. The Wendy's on the NE corner of the intersection is in a B-2; Monelli's, Beaner's and Starbucks are in PUD zonings, etc. I'm not sure if they asked for a rezoning, though.

Thanks for the explanation. I figured KFC was denied because no drive throughs were allowed in the zoning district. I'm just glad Wyoming didn't bend over and allow it for the sake of economic development. I hope that if it goes to court that Wyoming comes out on top.

[snoogit]

Seriously... is our society so on-demand that we can't wait *gasp* 5 minutes for food to be prepared to given to us? Thats blasphemy!

When it's 5 minutes spent in an idling car, then yes. The most innefficient things in the world are Drive thru lanes.

[francishsu]

Maybe I'm missing something, but why is Wyoming so keen on keeping fast food out of this corridor? They allowed a huge medical office park across the street, right off the expressway. This is not exactly an urban area, and as much as they would like to think, Byron Center Ave. isn't going to be a walking street. It's getting ready to become one of the major suburban roads in the metro. There's going to be a lot of traffic in this area, and restaurants are going to be in demand once Metro Village is complete. I understand there are residential subdivisions nearby, and a fast food would go against the zoning of that area, but I really would expect them to change that fairly soon. Am I missing something?

There's basically only two or three parcels that are vacant outside of all of the ones in MHV itself. So there's no pressure for Wyoming to rezone those for accommodating fast food restaurants, if they think something better is going to come along. Also, the KFC site in particular is the one that where increased traffic could cause problems.

As for the ones in the village itself, a fast food restaurant goes against the whole concept of a health village. And they are looking for around 8 or so restaurants to locate in the village. But none of them I think will be fast food drive through.

Fast food and gas stations could always go on the south side of M-6. That's up to Byron Township.

[francishsu]

Looks like the University of Michigan Health System is going to partner with Metro Health for radiation oncology services at Metro's cancer center

GR Press: Metro, U-M partnership brings new competition for cancer patients

Also, there's going to be a weekly (Thursday 9am-1pm) farmers' market in the village green portion starting next week.

[FloridaSpartan]

Looks like the University of Michigan Health System is going to partner with Metro Health for radiation oncology services at Metro's cancer center

GR Press: Metro, U-M partnership brings new competition for cancer patients

Also, there's going to be a weekly (Thursday 9am-1pm) farmers' market in the village green portion starting next week.

Did Spectrum drop the ball on this one?

[Ted]

Did Spectrum drop the ball on this one?

only if you call their new cancer center a fumble...

[Grandrapidsne]

Wow the compeitition between these two facilities is really heating up Now that Metro has the room to grow. Does anyone else see these as suburbs vs the city Metro keeps saying people don't want to tavel all the way downtown for services at spectrum and spectrum seems to be trying to consolidate everything downtown.

[GRDadof3]

Wow the compeitition between these two facilities is really heating up Now that Metro has the room to grow. Does anyone else see these as suburbs vs the city Metro keeps saying people don't want to tavel all the way downtown for services at spectrum and spectrum seems to be trying to consolidate everything downtown.

Yeah, I laugh when I read statements like that from Metro. What about the 300 - 400,000 people that live North of 28th Street who don't want to drive all the way down to Byron Center for health care? Oh wait, not Byron Center, Wyoming...or is it Grandville...

[francishsu]

Yeah, I'm not sure why Metro would want to frame it in terms of not having to travel downtown. This is not Chicago or Detroit. I live a mile away from Metro, but I can still get to Spectrum in under 20 minutes.

[MuskeMI]

It seems like for superior care, one should be willing to drive 10-20 miles, even if gas is $4 a gallon. Personally, I would (given the option) go to Spectrum for clinical areas they excel in and ditto for Metro.

[sparky05]

Hyatt Place:

[sparky05]

A couple more:

[LoveLEED&Dogs]

A couple more:

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THIS IS A LEED PROJECT? AND THINKING THIS MIGHT BE THE FIRST LEED HYATT PLACE. THANKS FOR ANY INFO!

Edited July 10, 2008 by LoveLEED&Dogs

[Raildudes dad]

"A couple more:

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THIS IS A LEED PROJECT? AND THINKING THIS MIGHT BE THE FIRST LEED HYATT PLACE. THANKS FOR ANY INFO"

Yes it is

http://www.mlive.com/grandrapids/stories/i....xml&coll=6

Edited July 11, 2008 by Raildudes dad

[aowwt]

some thoughts on DT business. First I work in the QSR (quick service restraunt) industry. I will not name who and dont guess since I like to keep my personal life away from my business life. Now about the industry they tend to have diffrent styles of business and each one has time frames for speed at the drive thru. That standard tends to be around 2 minutes overall. That allows for most fresh product to be cooked for just one order. Now here is the kicker although 2 minutes is fine for one or two meals, if people start ordering multiple meals the ability to get that order out goes down a lot since it causes a lot time to be wasted. First the amount of time to order increases since hey you are speaking longer, second it takes longer to make all of the food since uhm you are making more food, third it takes longer to pack since you tend to tripple check the order to catch any over glances, lastly it takes more time to get the food out the window. So if you are ordering a lot of food the best and most efficant way is to order inside. Now getting to the KFC issue. They are correct in that they have a lower DT percentage. The issue is that they also have a longer wait for food. Although the wait for most people is not an issue here are some things I seen happen while people wait. First people talk on cell phones, uhm can we ban cell phones in DT anybody. Next they tend to start puffing cigs and causing litter. Another bad habbit is cleaning out thier cars and uhm cig ashes are not fun to clean. The last thing is two fold, first is just the noise, and if anybody who has heard a deisel in a DT knows, you go deaf and then agian some cars just should be parked and folks walked inside with mufflers that are not working or non existant, that means a lot of noise. This also means a lot of pullition and for some cars I noticed a lot of heat in the summer.

For me though the DT is an awesome idea for people ordering small to grab and go. I do think though that KFC in the end just should be that close if they can not block the DT. Stacking is a non issue unless you have bell or mc in your name.

[GRguy]

SO CAN ANYONE TELL ME IF THIS IS A LEED PROJECT? AND THINKING THIS MIGHT BE THE FIRST LEED HYATT PLACE. THANKS FOR ANY INFO"

Yes it is

Hyatt Place Hotels qualify for Silver LEED without having to change anything. The question is how important the designation is to the franchisee to go through the expensive certification process.

I have heard in FL that all State employees will need to stay at LEED certified hotels when on State business. That would certainly be incentive to go through the process.

[Veloise]

some thoughts on D(rive) T(hrough) business. ... Now about the industry they tend to have diffrent styles of business and each one has time frames for speed at the drive thru. That standard tends to be around 2 minutes overall. That allows for most fresh product to be cooked for just one order. Now here is the kicker although 2 minutes is fine for one or two meals, if people start ordering multiple meals the ability to get that order out goes down a lot since it causes a lot time to be wasted. ...

First the amount of time to order increases since hey you are speaking longer, second it takes longer to make all of the food since uhm you are making more food, third it takes longer to pack since you tend to tripple check the order to catch any over glances, lastly it takes more time to get the food out the window. So if you are ordering a lot of food the best and most efficant way is to order inside. Now getting to the KFC issue. They are correct in that they have a lower DT percentage. The issue is that they also have a longer wait for food. ...

For me though the DT is an awesome idea for people ordering small to grab and go. I do think though that KFC in the end just should be that close if they can not block the DT. Stacking is a non issue unless you have bell or mc in your name.

A typical zoning ordinance contains general categories for fast-food restaurants and drive-through service windows. No time frame or type of food is specified. It would be discriminatory to permit a drive-through coffee, burger, dog, or shwarma place, while denying ice cream ("butter burger xing") or fried chicken.

[wingbert]

A typical zoning ordinance contains general categories for fast-food restaurants and drive-through service windows. No time frame or type of food is specified. It would be discriminatory to permit a drive-through coffee, burger, dog, or shwarma place, while denying ice cream ("butter burger xing") or fried chicken.

You know the old saying, "if you can't get your way, file suit... but be flexible."

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/business/inde..._drivethro.html

[aowwt]

Honestly that sign thing is the biggest killer. Not having a sign is almost going to kill that store before it opens. Frankly if I were KFC I would just say skip it. Wyoming got the better deal out of this IMHO. The lighting and wall is nothing new and very typical. Overall I think both sides bent over backwards. Also this is north of Gezon Parkway and not south of it.

[Veloise]

Honestly that sign thing is the biggest killer. Not having a sign is almost going to kill that store before it opens. Frankly if I were KFC I would just say skip it. Wyoming got the better deal out of this IMHO. The lighting and wall is nothing new and very typical. Overall I think both sides bent over backwards. Also this is north of Gezon Parkway and not south of it.

"Also, the restaurant must have a brick exterior and no pole sign will be allowed."

This means that the place can have a wall sign, or a ground-mounted sign. It can have signage in the windows. It can be the traditional KFC colors on the trim. It doesn't mean that this is a brick bunker and you have to follow your nose to figure out what kind of food they sell.

Pretty sure that the KFC on West Fulton also has a ground sign.

[francishsu]

The city council has really been going against the planning commission's recommendations this year. And it's not going to be on the north side. It's on the south side of 56th, next to the CVS and bordering the apartment properties. That's why they mentioned the fence/wall requirements on the property line facing the apartments. If it was on the north side, it would be across the street from Bayberry Farms. Now that the KFC is going to be allowed, there's a good chance there's going to be a McDonald's put up on the other vacant property along Byron Center.

Another development is that Spartan's interested in building a D&W in Metro Health Village. But they wanted the zoning amended to allow a gas station with it and it looks like the city council is going to support that, also against the planning commission's recommendation.

Finally, the ITT building looks like it's almost complete. They got that built pretty quickly.

Edited August 18, 2008 by francishsu

[Allison Slater]

Why have a planning commission anymore?

[aowwt]

Because the planning commission has its head up its behind to put it bluntley. The council is more or less telling the commission to start working with the developers and get things accepted instead of black balling everything. Its quite hurtful to see companies try to get in wyoming and other areas and get turned flat down without any means of discussion. The planning commission I think is not acting in the best means of the city. It kinda of reminds of the Gaines first group from a few years ago. That group had no standing IMHO considering the facts. In anycase I think the council is also looking at the bottomline. They need tax money and having the city completely built out allows more money into the city considering the state keeps on slashing the budget.

[GRDadof3]

Because the planning commission has its head up its behind to put it bluntley. The council is more or less telling the commission to start working with the developers and get things accepted instead of black balling everything. Its quite hurtful to see companies try to get in wyoming and other areas and get turned flat down without any means of discussion. The planning commission I think is not acting in the best means of the city. It kinda of reminds of the Gaines first group from a few years ago. That group had no standing IMHO considering the facts. In anycase I think the council is also looking at the bottomline. They need tax money and having the city completely built out allows more money into the city considering the state keeps on slashing the budget.

I think Wyoming's Planning Commission is trying to make that area more "upscale" than the rest of Wyoming. Probably in order to compete with Byron Township and Grandville for businesses. The City Commission probably sees tax dollar signs going out the window if they get too picky.