Tiers of SC cities

[Topher1]

Sumter and Aiken are also smaller cities in general, which is why they ranked lower on my list.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't want to start a crusade or anything to get you to change your list, I'm just legitametely curious, giving your reasoning, why Anderson doesn't belong in a lower tier with Aiken and Sumter. What industries, businesses, unique draws, etc, does Anderson have that would differentiate it, other than its proximity to Greenville (and maybe proximity to Clemson)? I don't know much about the city, so I'm legitimately interested in learning more...

Population-wise it doesn't stack up...

Sumter - 39,671

Aiken - 27,299

Anderson - 25,715

I've always considered Aiken and Anderson to be similar cities as far as growth/influence. The same with Florence and Sumter. I usually consider it as (Florence, Sumter) > (Aiken, Anderson), at least as far as city importance, though (Aiken, Anderson) is quickly catching up.

[Spartan]

I don't want to start a crusade or anything to get you to change your list, I'm just legitametely curious, giving your reasoning, why Anderson doesn't belong in a lower tier with Aiken and Sumter.  What industries, businesses, unique draws, etc, does Anderson have that would differentiate it, other than its proximity to Greenville (and maybe proximity to Clemson)?  I don't know much about the city, so I'm legitimately interested in learning more...

Population-wise it doesn't stack up...

Sumter - 39,671

Aiken - 27,299

Anderson - 25,715

I've always considered Aiken and Anderson to be similar cities as far as growth/influence.  The same with Florence and Sumter.  I usually consider it as (Florence, Sumter) > (Aiken, Anderson), at least as far as city importance, though (Aiken, Anderson) is quickly catching up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can argue against any point I make. I am not the final authority on this subject

City populations mean nothing. I think we can all accept that as a fact. Spartanburg's population is around 39,800, so does that mean that Spartanburg should be taken down to the level of Sumter? Do any of you equate Spartanburg with Sumter on any level? I certainly don't. Spartanburg is a larger and more vibrant place.

Take into account the Urban Area for these cities:

Anderson: 70,436

Sumter: 64,320

Spartanburg: 145,058

Now which city do you think is on the separate tier?

Aiken's UA is a part of Augusta, so it is more tied in with that area than I had originally thought.

After looking and comparing Anderson's UA to Sumter's (which is higher than I thought it was) I think my list should be modified with Sumter being in Tier 3, not Tier 4.

In terms of regional importance, Anderson is probably more important to its area that Aiken is to its area since Aiken has closer ties with Augusta than Anderson does to Greenville. I would like to hear form those of you who live in or near Aiken on this one. This is just my observation, and you should not take it as fact, but that is why Anderson is on a higher tier than Aiken. With my modified list, Sumter is on the same level.

[motonenterprises]

Doesn't Greenwood have an urban area of around 67,000? How is it smaller or less important than Aiken Topher?

[Spartan]

No, the Greenwood urban area is at 37,924, which is actualy more than Orangeburg, which is at 30,418. That came as a suprise to me. I didn't think Greenwood was that large.

[motonenterprises]

Thanks! Where can I find this info? And what is Aiken's urban area? I have been there and it doesn't look or feel any larger than Greenwood.

[monsoon]

What year are these Urban Area numbers from?

Also, Sumter exists for one reason now, Shaw Air Force Base. Most of it its other places of employment are down in Mexico now or going to China. If Shaw gets closed, Sumter will turn into a ghost town.

[teshadoh]

^ Urban areas are based on census block data - so 2000.

Also - just a nitpick, when an 'urban area' is under 50k, the census considers it an 'urban cluster'. So, in order to be recognized for a MSA - you have to have an 'urban area'.

[Spartan]

Its available on www.census.gov in the American Fact finder. You have to view the detailed information in the "Data Sets" tab on the left to get it... i dont think typing in your city will get you that info.

Greenwood is actually defined as an "urban cluser" which is the same thing, but it just reflects the urban population as being under 50,000.

Like I said, Aiken's urban area is attached to Augusta and they are not considered a separate urban cluster.

[Spartan]

^  Urban areas are based on census block data - so 2000.

Also - just a nitpick, when an 'urban area' is under 50k, the census considers it an 'urban cluster'.  So, in order to be recognized for a MSA - you have to have an 'urban area'.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I replied before i read your post teshadoh.

[teshadoh]

I replied before i read your post teshadoh.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And I knew you probably knew it anyways - just wanted to be the smartass in the class

[Spartan]

And I knew you probably knew it anyways - just wanted to be the smartass in the class

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[95-Souf]

What year are these Urban Area numbers from?

Also, Sumter exists for one reason now,  Shaw Air Force Base.  Most of it its other places of employment are down in Mexico now or going to China.  If Shaw gets closed, Sumter will turn into a ghost town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, I couldnt imagine what the impact of that happening to a city that seem to have had so much potiential. I wonder what the economic impact is for not only Shaw AFB and FT. Jackson in Columbia.

[The_sandlapper]

Well one good thing about Columbia is that it's not really a military town. It's a town that happens to have a military base in it. If Ft. Jackson left Cola it may actually benefit the city in the long run as far as developments go. I can't say that I knew many people in the military while growing up in Cola. Now if the State government left Cola then I would say the city may be in trouble, but even then the city has a much stronger business economy (insurance co.'s, hosp. systems, banking, etc... than what it actually gets credit for.

[MAJIKMAN]

Well one good thing about Columbia is that it's not really a military town. It's a town that happens to have a military base in it. If Ft. Jackson left Cola it may actually benefit the city in the long run as far as developments go. I can't say that I knew many people in the military while growing up in Cola. Now if the State government left Cola then I would say the city may be in trouble, but even then the city has a much stronger business economy (insurance co.'s, hosp. systems, banking, etc... than what it actually gets credit for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Ft Jackson closed. It would probably be used kind of in the same way as Donaldson Center is being used here in Greenville. Where they have alot of

activity going on now. But it did take years for that to happen.

[Topher1]

And what is Aiken's urban area?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As was stated before, Aiken's UA is a part of Augusta's, so everything below is speculation...

The SC portion of the UA is about 86,000, but that also includes areas that are clearly Augusta burbs (N. Augusta, Belvedere, parts of Beech Island, Clearwater). It gets a little muddy in between the cities as to which towns are suburbs of which cities. The towns in that stretch that could go either way are Burnettown, Langley, Gloverville, Bath, etc.

I think its clear that Warrenville, New Ellenton, Graniteville, and Vaucluse, as well as some smaller towns, are Aiken burbs (not in the traditional since, but rely heavily on Aiken). We'll rule out New Ellenton and the smaller towns since they aren't connected by development.

About 60,000 people have an Aiken zip code. Of course not all are in the UA, but I'd guess the majority of 29801 and 29803 are. So, conservatively, I'd say that around 45,000 of the 55,000 people in those zips are included in the UA data. Adding in Warrenville, Vaucluse, and Graniteville (these cities are connected to Aiken) gives an increase of close to 10,000 people.

So with this fuzzy logic, my guestimate for what Aiken's UA would be if it weren't attached to Augusta is in the low to mid 50,000's.

I have been there and it doesn't look or feel any larger than Greenwood.

I agree. We get bypassed by lots of chain stores since we're close enough to drive to Augusta. But the most sprawlific corridor in Aiken is an area that no one "just passing through" would actually see. It's the SC 19 corridor (Whiskey Road) south of town. This road dead ends into SRS, so unless someone is going to SRS, theres almost no reason to take Whiskey Road. This is where a VAST majority of Aiken's development has occurred for the past 20 years (I'm talking like 90%). It's all sprawl, but this area is the true indicator of the city's recent growth.

Except for gentrification in parts, the inner-city area of Aiken won't change... with the winter colony mansions, the historic homes, and the small-town character of downtown, the city is a little overprotective when it comes to new development. The problem with Aiken is that the city thinks it's Charleston when it comes to preservation. While that's an OK attitude if it were true, we just don't have the critical mass of development to truly be an important destination, and unfortunately it's nearly impossible to get anything new (or tall) built in the downtown area.

[Spartan]

Id say that is a very well educated guess topher. That will henceforth be my answer to the Aiken UA question

[teshadoh]

Those UA folk love to squeeze every 1k per square mile block into a single urban area if possible, they did the same thing with Griffin GA & Atlanta.

What I came up for Aiken - counting every block up to the Gloverville CDP (where a thin neck is formed) I came up with 41,333 for Aiken. So - not quite to 'urban area' classification even if it was detached from Augusta.

[95-Souf]

Well one good thing about Columbia is that it's not really a military town. It's a town that happens to have a military base in it. If Ft. Jackson left Cola it may actually benefit the city in the long run as far as developments go. I can't say that I knew many people in the military while growing up in Cola. Now if the State government left Cola then I would say the city may be in trouble, but even then the city has a much stronger business economy (insurance co.'s, hosp. systems, banking, etc... than what it actually gets credit for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats alot of land for development, I belive it covers land between I-26 to US 76 from North to South

[UrbanSoutherner]

Those UA folk love to squeeze every 1k per square mile block into a single urban area if possible, they did the same thing with Griffin GA & Atlanta.

What I came up for Aiken - counting every block up to the Gloverville CDP (where a thin neck is formed) I came up with 41,333 for Aiken.  So - not quite to 'urban area' classification even if it was detached from Augusta.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for that Teshadoh. I had often wondered how big Aiken was as a separate urban blob. Aiken has really been one of SC boomtowns in the post-World War II era thanks to the Savannah River Site. If I recall correctly, the town had a municipal population of 7,000 or so in 1950 with very little else.

[Spartan]

I think this thread is worth another visit. We have a lot more reputation after two years from all parts of the state. Please share your thoughts!

FYI- I found this bit of info- These are counties that the State considers urban:

iken

Anderson

Beaufort

Berkeley

Charleston

Dorchester

Florence

Greenville

Horry

Lexington*

Pickens*

Richland

Spartanburg

Sumter

York

*Lexington and Pickens counties

are considered urban since they

are bedroom communities to

major metropolitan areas.

http://www.ors2.state.sc.us/rural_health.asp#legend

[krazeeboi]

I see I'm not the only one who likes to drag up threads from the murky depths.

My list goes like this:

1) Charleston, Columbia, Greenville

2) Spartanburg, Myrtle Beach

3) Rock Hill, Florence, Anderson, Sumter, Beaufort-Hilton Head

4) Orangeburg, Greenwood, Walterboro, Georgetown

I'm not sure if Aiken should fit in at #3 or #4. I lean more towards #3 though.

[GvilleSC]

Spartan those are interesting, indeed. They seem pretty much right on, I guess. Are Dorchester and Berkeley Counties not considered bedroom communities like Lexington and Pickens? And what sets them a part, I'm curious.

As for Krazee's list, I might consider Greenwood more on Anderson's level, though I'm not sure about that. Greenwood is an interesting specimen. And I'd probably thrown Laurens up there with Georgetown, if it's going to be included.

[flotown]

I see I'm not the only one who likes to drag up threads from the murky depths.

My list goes like this:

1) Charleston, Columbia, Greenville

2) Spartanburg, Myrtle Beach

3) Rock Hill, Florence, Anderson, Sumter, Beaufort-Hilton Head

4) Orangeburg, Greenwood, Walterboro, Georgetown

I'm not sure if Aiken should fit in at #3 or #4. I lean more towards #3 though.

[krazeeboi]

In terms of size, I believe Anderson's urbanized area is over twice that of Greenwood. Greenwood and Orangeburg have similar urban cluster populations (around 30K, 35K), so that's why I placed them in the same tier.

Sumter's UA is a couple of thousand larger than Florence's (something I found out not too long ago).

[Spartan]

I meant to add my updated list. This is the list as it looks based on the obvious breaks in the populations of our urban areas/clusters. Please note that I was wrong about Sumters UA population in the Sumter thread. I got all of these numbers from the Census, and it appears Sumter is about 3,000 short of Florence.

Tier 1

Charleston 423,410

Columbia 420,537

Greenville 380,025 (includes Gville and Mauldin-Simpsonville)

Tier 2

Spartanburg 145,058

Myrtle Beach 122,984

Tier 3

Anderson 70,436

Rock Hill 70,436

Florence 67,314

Sumter - 64,320

Tier 4

Beaufort 46,227

Aiken 41,333

Greenwood 37,924

Hilton Head Island 34,400

Orangeburg 30,418

Now, here is that list based on Gross Metropolitan Product (excluding smaller urban areas) in 2004 ($ billions) and the percentage of the Gross State Product of South Carolina.

TIER 1		  POP	   GMP	  (% GSP)

Columbia	   420,537	$25.01	18.4

Greenville	 380,025	$21.62	15.9

Charleston	 423,410	$19.63	14.4


TIER 2

Spartanburg	145,058	 $9.50	 7.0

Myrtle Beach   122,984	 $6.87	 5.0


TIER 3

Florence		67,314	 $6.53 	4.8

Anderson		70,436	 $4.83 	3.6

Sumter		  64,320	 $3.43 	2.5

Rock Hill	   70,007	 ????	 ???? (Only data for Charlotte MSA available)

So, the tiers don't change very much even with the use of economic data. What we do see is that the gap between Florence and Sumter is much larger in the economic area than it is in population.