Downcity as a Resident Hood

[HartfordTycoon]

- Surprising urban commitment: Because it is the urban center for that region, there's little anti-development feeling.  In fact, the general mood is uniformly pro-development.  In Providence, where it's either people like us who are pro, or those who want to plant trees and put benches everywhere, the feeling in the TC is more, "Ok, we all know we want development, we just want the best development world class development possible."  These are the different headlines you'd see in the two cities:

Providence: "Neighborhood group opposes project.  Doesn't want view blocked by building and is concerned about traffic and noise.  Wishes open space instead."

Minneapolis: "Neighborhood group opposed project.  Wants a more 'landmark' design and consideration of construction of nearby LRT or BRT line before work begins."

 

- Garris

Links:

Labeled Minneapolis Skyline Image

Labeled St. Paul Skyline Image

Citypages, The TC's version of The Phoenix

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Want to plant trees and put benches everywhere!!!!! I swear that is worst part about New England. I feel like I live amongst living and breathing Pilgrims sometimes.

[Recchia]

Want to plant trees and put benches everywhere!!!!! I swear that is worst part about New England. I feel like I live amongst living and breathing Pilgrims sometimes.

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Ohh yes, very very true. So it's like that in all of New England too, not just Providence?

[Frankie811]

In my opinion the biggest factor in creating a successful rebirth/growth in Minneapolis is what is known as "Neighborhood Revitalization" (NRP).  Essentially, all 85 neighborhoods in the city get a share of downtown tax revenue.  The share varies depending on how poor the area is. With very few rules, the neighborhoods got to set the priorities for spending the money.  The idea is that the residents sets neighborhood priorities, not the government.

Some neighborhoods created low-interest home loan programs, some got decorative street lighting and new playground equipment.  Some paid for business landscaping.  Some built community centers and gyms.  Some installed art --the list goes on and on.  The key is that it got neighbors involved.

My current neighborhood on the edge of downtown is 95% rental and has a 35% poverty rate.  The goal of the neighborhood was to get more owner occupied housing in an effort to reduce crime and increase shops and amenities.

They used $100,000 to hire master planners to identify opportunities for development.  Then they contacted developers about a piece of property along a highway exit ramp -- no one was interested.  To entice them they offered $300,000 of their NRP money to help minimize the developers risk.  The result: Grant Park a 27 story building with 322 owner occupied condos and brownstowns ranging in value from $199,000 to over $1 million.  Now another non-subsidized tower is being built accross the street and five more will be built withing the next 3 years.

In addition, the success of this project (the first residential tower in Downtown in 20 years) has encouraged other developers accross the entire city.  There are 50 project planned for downtown alone. And the best part is the with NRP as a foundation, these neghborhoods are more organized and better able to shape the developments than ever before.

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WOW!!! That building on the corner looks exactlly like the condo building at the corners of Thomas & N Main, next to Mills Tarvern.

[TheAnk]

And before anyone else jumps on this, that isn't a bad thing.  I can already imagine the flurry of posts now about how that means outsiders coming in and displacing all of the wonderful, dynamic, character-filled people who make Providence Providence and give the city its sense of place...

No, this just means adding to the tapestry.  In urban life, static=death.  There's enough Providence to go around for everyone...

- Garris

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What is it about RI'ers that make them fear outsiders? I don't get this.. Its insanity..

I moved down from MA, and I kid you not.. Before I changed my plates from MA over to RI plates, I got pulled over all the time by police and given "warnings".. People tailgated me to no end and treated me on the road with general malaise..

And since I changed from MA plates to RI plates, no more tailgating.. I haven't been pulled over once.. Now, is it possible that the change in plate state affect my driving? Yes, its possible..

It is more likely that RI people no longer want me dead because I had a Massachusetts plate? ABSOLUTELY..

Explain this to me.. RI people hate MA people..

[BBascule]

Now, is it possible that the change in plate state affect my driving? Yes, its possible..

Maybe you're driving worse and you fit in better.

[BBascule]

Article at Kiplinger

A recent article at Kiplinger (mentioned this week in the Phoenix) mentions Boston as the #1 riskiest housing market in the nation. It also goes on to mention providence as #16

Beantown Bubble

In PMI's view, Boston is the riskiest housing market in the nation. PMI assigns a 53% probability that Boston housing prices will decline over the next two years. The city is at risk despite falling home prices between 1992 and 2001 and a relatively modest annualized appreciation of 7% since then. The problem, says Lawrence Yun, regional economist for the National Association of Realtors (NAR), is that the Boston area has lost 200,000 jobs since 2000 and that housing prices remain high, with a median home selling for $398,000. But David Lindahl, a veteran real estate buyer who runs a local investors' club, looks at the bright side of a possible price decline in Boston. That would mean, he says, "buying opportunities in the foreclosure market."

Providence. The New England city that was founded as a home for religious dissenters faces some of the same issues as Boston: no population growth and stagnant job growth. Over the past three years, home prices in Providence have risen at a rate similar to Boston's. PMI puts Providence's housing-price risk at 39%.

I can agree with the comment citing stagnant job growth, but Providence's population growth has actually been kind of suprising for a city outside of the sun belt. Growth of any kind makes a bigger impact on a city with a small footprint like Providence.

[TheAnk]

I think only once does a city go through what Prov is going through right now.. I think most people returned to other cities decades ago, whereas Providence never had the return from suburban exodus.. Thats in process now.. People "rediscover" a city, but I think only its after the people who left to escape it are long gone.. So, now the escapees kids and grandkids are returning to Prov..

I liken it to Allston/Brighton in Boston... Horrific ten years ago, Comm Ave was laden with Projects.. Now those buildings are high price apartments..

People leave city to escape, people leave suburbs to escape.. All relative.. People are escaping to Prov right now, if that makes sense..

I'm no civil engineer or RISD design type, just a guy.. So thats my layman reason for Prov's population influx.. Also, there is a huge latino population, the fastest growing group..

I have a question.. If a "minority", like hispanics in Providence become the "majority" of the population, do they then cease to be a Minority?? Cook your noodle on that one..

[billypc99]

Dear Ank,

Thank you for registering your car in Rhode Island. Our monitoring system in RI had identified you as the perfect Masshole to harass. In the last few months that you had Mass plates ,we decided to harass you even more to retaliate for your stupid tax holiday.

Sincerely,

The State of Rhode Island

[Baines]

I think only once does a city go through what Prov is going through right now.. I think most people returned to other cities decades ago, whereas Providence never had the return from suburban exodus.. Thats in process now.. People "rediscover" a city, but I think only its after the people who left to escape it are long gone.. So, now the escapees kids and grandkids are returning to Prov..

I liken it to Allston/Brighton in Boston... Horrific ten years ago, Comm Ave was laden with Projects.. Now those buildings are high price apartments..

People leave city to escape, people leave suburbs to escape.. All relative.. People are escaping to Prov right now, if that makes sense..

I'm no civil engineer or RISD design type, just a guy.. So thats my layman reason for Prov's population influx.. Also, there is a huge latino population, the fastest growing group..

I have a question.. If a "minority", like hispanics in Providence become the "majority" of the population, do they then cease to be a Minority?? Cook your noodle on that one..

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Just Providence-Boston competition...you are now a winner!

[Jenkins]

I liken it to Allston/Brighton in Boston... Horrific ten years ago, Comm Ave was laden with Projects.. Now those buildings are high price apartments..

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Hmmmm, I lived in Brighton from 1995 through 2002, and I it was never that bad. Sure, student ghettos lined Comm ave., but that is a different animal than real ghettos.

[Cotuit]

Hmmmm, I lived in Brighton from 1995 through 2002, and I it was never that bad. Sure, student ghettos lined Comm ave., but that is a different animal than real ghettos.

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Pre-95, Allston Village especially was rather ruff and tumble. It's the golden age that us mid-30s wanna-be hipsters look back to longingly, Allston Rock City and all that. But getting mugged on your way out of a club, and living in a neighbourhood with it's streets paved in puke is what we tend to forget about the golden age.

I took to calling Allston Village, North Brookline in the late 90s.

Sorry to break it to you theAnk, it was more like 15 years ago, you're getting old.

[TheAnk]

Pre-95, Allston Village especially was rather ruff and tumble. It's the golden age that us mid-30s wanna-be hipsters look back to longingly, Allston Rock City and all that. But getting mugged on your way out of a club, and living in a neighbourhood with it's streets paved in puke is what we tend to forget about the golden age.

I took to calling Allston Village, North Brookline in the late 90s.

Sorry to break it to you theAnk, it was more like 15 years ago, you're getting old. 

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You are right.. More like 15 years ago.. And I am old.. Not student housing back then, real life Olneyville type ghettos..

[Cotuit]

I know in some thread somewhere AriPVD asked someone to do an inventory about parking lots in the city, I can't find where he asked that now though, so I'm posting this here:

Providence's embarrasment of parking riches:

[Mij]

thats just toooo much. I wish our society would jump on the bus or agree on some sort of mass transit line. Any one see the cost of gas that projo did? I would be really intrested in the numbers before and after for ripta for ridership.

[AriPVD]

Cotuit, you're the man!

[Recchia]

Gotta love the sea of parking around the Department of TRANSPORTATION...

I never thought Providence had that much parking, but wow, theres a lot of yellow on that map...

P.S. There's another surface lot directly behind the DOA building, and you can highlight the courtyard in between DOT, DOA and DOH, underneath there is a three level parking garage.

[eltron]

It would be interesting to see a similar quick analysis done on other cities and compare it side-by-side with this one. Could be very telling.

[Garris]

Cotuit, amazing as usual. I think we have established that the issue isn't that we need more parking, it's that downtown needs fewer parking areas that are better and clearer. I'm sure most people aren't aware of a third of those spaces available.

It would be interesting to break that map down into "public" and "private" parking. Most of those yellow parcels in downcity and around N/S Main cost (in my opinion) far too much to use and exist to essentially rob people coming downtown from elsewhere who don't know better.

- Garris

[Baines]

Cotuit, amazing as usual.  I think we have established that the issue isn't that we need more parking, it's that downtown needs fewer parking areas that are better and clearer.  I'm sure most people aren't aware of a third of those spaces available.

It would be interesting to break that map down into "public" and "private" parking.  Most of those yellow parcels in downcity and around N/S Main cost (in my opinion) far too much to use and exist to essentially rob people coming downtown from elsewhere who don't know better. 

- Garris

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Well said.

A true master plan to make Downcity a transportation friendly place is to manage the location, type, and access to parking areas. An integrated mass transit, local transit, roadwork, and parking zones can create an efficient movement of people despite the American love of cars.

I am encouraged by the internal parking of the new proposed large buildings but the city needs to act to create large parking zones (garages) that integrate with traffic flow in and out of the Downcity.

[Lova]

A true master plan to make Downcity a transportation friendly place is to manage the location, type, and access to parking areas. An integrated mass transit, local transit, roadwork, and parking zones can create an efficient movement of people despite the American love of cars.

I am encouraged by the internal parking of the new proposed large buildings but the city needs to act to create large parking zones (garages) that integrate with traffic flow in and out of the Downcity.

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[Lova]

On residential downtown:

I think you have to let people decide where they want to live and work. I see the residential developments as creating more office demand as rich people buying $500-$2m condos will soon grow tired of commuting and move their offices downtown with them.

In NYC, they spent billion$ running oversized utilities to their financial district. But it was only used from 9-5. After that it was a ghost town and the investment wasted. Now, residential demand is converting offices to condos, and it's a more 24 hr place. No one is complaining. I visited the NY stock exchange a year ago showing a friend the site of an earlier act of terrorism- about 1920 anarchists detonated a wagon load of dynamite and iron bars next to JP Morgan's office. But when I got there it was being marketed as converted condos. It's across the St from the New York Stock Exchange! Nothing is sacred. But they left the scars on the building to this day.

On Why RI Hates MA:

MA was so uptight that Roger Williams fled to this promised land, which he named Providence in honor of his escaping. Subsequently, after Roger got a charter from the king to form RI, making his escape protected under law, MA lobbied with the king to revoke the charter and assume the land.

RI started fighting the British years before the Boston massacre, Lexington, or the tea party. But Boston gets all the credit.

I forget the guy's name, but supposedly the RI rep to the Continental Congress was the key figure in organizing the congress and drafting the key documents. But he dropped dead just before the Dec of Ind was signed, and MA guys like Adams get all the credit.

In 1978 snow plows from MA stopped at the border and turned around.

When Providence was broke Boston had money.

The Patriots stayed in Foxborow.

We have the Pawtucket Red Sox.

Massholes used to drive worse than RI folks, but over time we were contaminated with a flood of bad habits.

In RI, if you walk into a place and no one knows you, you're assumed evil.

Yer difrent from us.

[bikerdriver]

Since this thread is concerned about parking: does anyone know where I could get a map of which streets around Brown are restricted to 2-hour or 3-hour parking?

[Baines]

A true master plan to make Downcity a transportation friendly place is to manage the location, type, and access to parking areas. An integrated mass transit, local transit, roadwork, and parking zones can create an efficient movement of people despite the American love of cars.

I am encouraged by the internal parking of the new proposed large buildings but the city needs to act to create large parking zones (garages) that integrate with traffic flow in and out of the Downcity.

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The lack of parking is a huge myth. After 6pm the entire downtown is saturated with excess parking. It's a rare night that I cant easily park within 100 yds.

Prov is not dense enough to afford big mass transit. The subsidy would be insane. Maybe with 20 years of current development. But I wonder if parking garages strategically located in concert with evloving small mass transit, like the trolleys/busses/ferry, could bridge the gap while the city fills in. In a city, parking lots are raw land. I'd hate to lose all my free parking downtown, but I'd rather the lots had cool buildings.

Am I nuts to assume the city/state fathers don't already have a step-by-step plan for expanding and reorganizing flow in and out of town?

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