Main Street/CBD Developments

[CorgiMatt]

Krazeeboi, haven't you heard of clustering?

[krazeeboi]

^Yes, but I wouldn't consider this a proper example, and when it comes to certains kinds of retail (or restaurants, or whatever else), that doesn't mean that all of the same kinds need to be in the same general area. Even then, I think it would be a bit better even if one were located across the street. But those buildings are probably owned by their tenants, so that's simply the way things are.

[emerging.me]

Quick note regarding the talk about the Lourie's building not selling. I know the article said they reduced the price, but it was massively overpriced when it was initially listed and may still be somewhat so.

Edited May 5, 2008 by emerging.me

[CorgiMatt]

They started early this morning on the streetscaping from Hampton to Taylor.

[Spartan]

Fantastic. thanks for the update!

[digital_sandlapper]

Folks, I know many of you will disagree, but Columbia's Main Street (which is a fine name, IMO) MUST also become an "entertainment district" too, if that's what you call having vitality. The Vista and Five Points are fine, but Main Street is a much more pleasant atmosphere for restaurants, stores, and taverns/clubs. The trees, the interesting architecture, the lack of hills, the ease of navigation (grids of streets), abundance of parking, etc.--it must have, desperately needs, a heart beat.

I think the number one impediment holding our potentially VERY cool Main Street Columbia back is the homeless. Like it or not, it is overwhelming, and they run the streets day and night. (By day it's just less noticeable with the office workers.) And don't excuse it saying "all cities have that problem". They do, but their streets aren't over-run with them to the point of exclusion of everyone else. Columbia caters to homelessness . . almost to the point of enabling it. The CBD from the State House to the Salvation Army to Finlay Park to the Main Library to Oliver Gospel Mission to the Methodist Church Soup Kitchen is a veritable homeless haven! SCETV just had a very educational program on this issue recently called "Give Me Shelter", and I highly recommend it. And, no, I am not a heartless old cuss, I just think we have got to think of a solution before we can go forward with our hopes and dreams for Main Street Columbia.

[krazeeboi]

^Digital, I agree on both counts. It's very unfortunate that Coble wasn't willing to take a stand do the right thing by committing to a "one-stop shop" center for the homeless because he didn't want to look like the enemy. Housing First is a good idea, but by itself, it makes too small of an impact. Not to mention that by ditching the initial idea for the one-stop shop, years of planning and strategizing was thrown out of the window and area homeless services providers were essentially flipped off. The homeless problem needs an aggressive, multi-faceted strategy, and Coble fumbled.

[Spartan]

I disagree. Certainly the homeless are an issue, but EVERY city has to deal with homeless people. You should see the homeless people in Charlotte. They are present, but they are just part of the scene. I don't think that is possible for a city to avoid them. Main St Columbia doesn't suffer form a lack of activity because of them it suffers because of a lack of anything worth going to. I think that its going to take some key destination, perhaps associated with one of the hotels on main street that chooses to locate there because of the hotel.

Look at what Greenville did. I know there is some reluctance to make the comparison to Greenville, but you can't try to argue that their model for success didn't work. They had the Hyatt and the Peace Center on either end of Main St. You basically had to walk from the Hyatt down to the Peace Center BEFORE there was anything worth going to along Main Street. They also planted their trees and rebuilt the sidewalks, which was a major component. But what this did was force pedestrian traffic to walk the length of main street, thus generating restaurants and then other retail along the way. Columbia does not have this. You have hotels in the Vista and around USC that cater to those respective crowds, and even hotels on Main St that cater to the businesses there.... but there is no destination that forces people to walk by the area. The hotels are all "central" to all destinations so to speak.

So I'm not suggesting that Columbia build a destination on Main St, but that it will take something special to jump start activity on that street. It doesn't help that the city is running off businesses like that old irish bar in the basement of that building there. The city also has to require retail space on Main St in new buildings. For the next 100 years, First Citizens tower will be a huge gap in the pedestrian space along Main St, and nothing will be able to fix that short of gutting the first floor of that building and starting over.

I is my hope that the restaurant in the base of the Tower at Main & Gervais will be enough of a draw to encourage other restaurants along Main.

[waccamatt]

I tend to agree more with Spartan, especially with requiring that new office buildings be required to have retail space at street level. The Gervais to Lady Street block is already hurt by the First Citizens Building, but the rest of Main Street still has potential, especially if the Palmetto Center is renovated and street level retail is inserted. I would also see the Art Museum have hours into the evenings most of the time and have more activities in Boyd Plaza in front of the Museum. The Plaza, with its 2 fountains, amphitheater and proximity to both the Marriott and the Sheraton should have an event of some sort every night of the week, even if it is just sidewalk musicians and street vendors. If this location is filled with activity it will spill over to the surrounding blocks and create a place to rebuild Main Street's nightlife. In another year or so the Nickelodeon will open a block away and create another nighttime venue for the area. The city (and us) need to fully support the Nick's move to make it as successful as possible.

[krazeeboi]

I disagree. Certainly the homeless are an issue, but EVERY city has to deal with homeless people. You should see the homeless people in Charlotte. They are present, but they are just part of the scene.

You have a point, but I think it should be noted that the homeless in uptown Charlotte aren't really part of the overall scene since they are mainly clustered on the north end of Tryon. That said, as of now, there isn't much in that general area that acts as a destination which helps to explain that. I suppose that's why the homeless in downtown Columbia tend to be scattered along the length of Main. But you've got to admit that the abundance of the homeless surely doesn't help the perception of Main. I think both problems, the homeless and the lack of destinations/anchors, need to be dealt with concurrently. They feed off each other.

[Captain Worley]

I'm with Digital on this one. Like it or not, the homeless really do ruin the perception of the Main Street area. It has been a real problem since the mid seveties, so even if something was done about it, the perception would linger.

Sadly, it is a problem few will admit, and even fewer will do something about.

[Spartan]

They've definitely tried. Everyone wants a homeless shelter somewhere else.

Homless Plan in Columbia

You have a point, but I think it should be noted that the homeless in uptown Charlotte aren't really part of the overall scene since they are mainly clustered on the north end of Tryon. That said, as of now, there isn't much in that general area that acts as a destination which helps to explain that. I suppose that's why the homeless in downtown Columbia tend to be scattered along the length of Main. But you've got to admit that the abundance of the homeless surely doesn't help the perception of Main. I think both problems, the homeless and the lack of destinations/anchors, need to be dealt with concurrently. They feed off each other.

I think other cities have been able to cope with the homeless problem in a responsible way. Relocating the 4 Corners and whatnot would have been a good start. IMO, relocating the shelter to Bluff Rd would have been the best solution. I don't know what ever came of that Homeless Plan.

[CorgiMatt]

Homeless people are just people to me. I don't say anything to them, just like I don't say anything to anyone else unless I know them, or unless I need to ask them something or they ask me something. When there are popular night-time destinations on Main Street, the homeless will go somewhere else. The only time you see them sitting on benches in the Vista, for instance, is during off hours when there's not much going on there. Homeless people avoid crowds for the most part, and those who don't blend in when there is heavy foot traffic. People who blame the homeless for keeping other people away from anywhere are just using the homeless as a scapegoat. And I don't think a one-stop place would do anything but make the one-stop place the new "place to avoid" and talk down. Even people who live in an area that others already perceive as a place to avoid don't deserve to have yet another reason to avoid their neighborhood forced upon them. Housing First has started, and behind the scenes efforts are being made to expand it, and I think it is the most responsible way to address the homeless problem.

[superjack]

I haven't been visiting this board as much as in the past, but the recent posts concerning Main St have caught my attention. I think the biggest obstacle for Main St, right now, is the presence and proximity of the triving Vista. It is going to be very difficult for Main St to pick up the restaurants and bars that Vista consistently attracts because that's where everyone wants to locate. And it's a better set up (and cheaper) for that sort of thing. I would like to see Main St position itself as a complement to the Vista instead of trying to be a competitor of sorts. I'm not sure how this can be done, but I think "good" retail destinations may help as well as "unique" destinations in general. If Main St tries to compete head-to-head with the Vista, nothing is going to happen. But, if some quality destinations come, then slowly people and restaurants will follow. For what it's worth, it used to bother me that there wasn't much to do on Main St, especially since that's where all the tall buildings (you know, what's supposed to be city center) were. Over time, I've begun to appreciate the Vista and Five Points more and more. I think it's cool that so many city blocks are completely geared towards entertainment, and both are really thriving. Again, Main St has to be something different to succeed...and hopefully something great!

[krazeeboi]

And I don't think a one-stop place would do anything but make the one-stop place the new "place to avoid" and talk down. Even people who live in an area that others already perceive as a place to avoid don't deserve to have yet another reason to avoid their neighborhood forced upon them.

This is why the location was proposed for a mostly industrial area.

Housing First has started, and behind the scenes efforts are being made to expand it, and I think it is the most responsible way to address the homeless problem.

Homeless services providers in the area have stated otherwise. It's very unfortunate that Coble would choose to ignore the advice of the experts and alienate them by going for the more politically expedient, but less effective, "solution."

[digital_sandlapper]

I disagree. Certainly the homeless are an issue, but EVERY city has to deal with homeless people. You should see the homeless people in Charlotte. They are present, but they are just part of the scene. I don't think that is possible for a city to avoid them. Main St Columbia doesn't suffer form a lack of activity because of them it suffers because of a lack of anything worth going to. I think that its going to take some key destination, perhaps associated with one of the hotels on main street that chooses to locate there because of the hotel.

Like you said, though, the homeless in Charlotte and other places, while there, are a small part of the mix -- but not the dominant element. Same goes for Charleston, Savannah, Greenville, etc., where there are plenty of homeless and plenty of pan-handlers as well. The difference is they are not running the show in those places.

IMO, this "chicken and the egg" cause-effect argument is the opposite of what you suggest. Lack of activity is due to the homelessness problem. No sane developer or restauranteur is going to open a new destination because of this problem "that dares not speak its name", as a recent post pointed out.

I don't care what anyone says about these unfortunate people, I do not feel safe around them, especially at night. I wouldn't dream of taking my out-of-town friends (who I'm trying to have leave with a positive impression of our great city) downtown at night, and I don't believe I'm the only one. Real or perceived, it is just a fact that we have to deal with this issue.

OK, OK, I know: those that complain about a problem without offering solutions are a pain, so how about that one-shop stop for the homeless that was proposed down Assembly Street? Give them a great new, big facility as a shelter with meals, job help, free e-mail access, bus stop, substance abuse counselors, etc. Don't other cities have such things? That way, the library and churches downtown can get back to their other work, some of which has been neglected for too long, and the charities like Salvation Army and the mission can relocate to the center and could even run it. The homeless would truly appreciate it, and would use it.

Edited May 9, 2008 by digital_sandlapper

[digital_sandlapper]

Homeless people are just people to me. I don't say anything to them, just like I don't say anything to anyone else unless I know them, or unless I need to ask them something or they ask me something. When there are popular night-time destinations on Main Street, the homeless will go somewhere else. The only time you see them sitting on benches in the Vista, for instance, is during off hours when there's not much going on there. Homeless people avoid crowds for the most part, and those who don't blend in when there is heavy foot traffic. People who blame the homeless for keeping other people away from anywhere are just using the homeless as a scapegoat. And I don't think a one-stop place would do anything but make the one-stop place the new "place to avoid" and talk down. Even people who live in an area that others already perceive as a place to avoid don't deserve to have yet another reason to avoid their neighborhood forced upon them. Housing First has started, and behind the scenes efforts are being made to expand it, and I think it is the most responsible way to address the homeless problem.

Homeless people, or anyone else for that matter, sitting on a bench minding their own business don't bother me. I'm talking about being harassed by intimidating characters while standing next to my car pumping gas in the middle of a work day at a gas station on Elmwood. I'm talking about seeing men living under bridges and overpasses just footsteps from co-eds' dorm room windows. I'm talking about the urine-soaked and slept-in shrubbery lining Finlay Park. I'm talking about the street hustlers accosting me when trying to enter the fantastic Richland County Library doors that we paid for but can't even use. Have you been around the city lately? These are just a few of the examples of scenes I've encountered, and I'm just one person. It is overwhelming and has GOT to be addressed and not just swept under the rug.

You are right, they are people, and they deserve their dignity. I couldn't agree more. Let's get serious about this, and not treat this casually as "they don't bother anyone, leave them alone". To leave them alone would be the ultimate indignity.

Edited May 9, 2008 by digital_sandlapper

[digital_sandlapper]

I haven't been visiting this board as much as in the past, but the recent posts concerning Main St have caught my attention. I think the biggest obstacle for Main St, right now, is the presence and proximity of the triving Vista. It is going to be very difficult for Main St to pick up the restaurants and bars that Vista consistently attracts because that's where everyone wants to locate. And it's a better set up (and cheaper) for that sort of thing. I would like to see Main St position itself as a complement to the Vista instead of trying to be a competitor of sorts. I'm not sure how this can be done, but I think "good" retail destinations may help as well as "unique" destinations in general. If Main St tries to compete head-to-head with the Vista, nothing is going to happen. But, if some quality destinations come, then slowly people and restaurants will follow. For what it's worth, it used to bother me that there wasn't much to do on Main St, especially since that's where all the tall buildings (you know, what's supposed to be city center) were. Over time, I've begun to appreciate the Vista and Five Points more and more. I think it's cool that so many city blocks are completely geared towards entertainment, and both are really thriving. Again, Main St has to be something different to succeed...and hopefully something great!

My dream for Main Street is that it become home to trendy, eclectic, gourmet restaurants--including ethnic and international cuisine. Not chains, not beer and wings, and not college or even family-oriented. Funky, artsy, bohemian . . these are some words that come to mind (and there are plenty of others that would flock to such in this "most liberal" city in the state). Downtown Greenville has tons of new exciting restaurants such as these (and we all know Charleston has had for years.) We can too, hopefully. It has to be something that the Vista and 5 Points don't offer --- sophistication. (I am stunned that there are NO Thai restaurants anywhere downtown, for instance.) Places like Hush, Rust, Goatfeathers, Bird on a Wire and the like are examples of what would be ideal on Main Street, IMO (with unique concepts of their own, of course). Locally-owned with delicious food and fabulous ambience. Martini and Cosmo bars . . tiki huts . . cigar or hookah lounges . . Cuban, Vietnamese, and churrascaria restaurants . . bring 'em on!

[CorgiMatt]

Homeless people, or anyone else for that matter, sitting on a bench minding their own business don't bother me. I'm talking about being harassed by intimidating characters while standing next to my car pumping gas in the middle of a work day at a gas station on Elmwood. I'm talking about seeing men living under bridges and overpasses just footsteps from co-eds' dorm room windows. I'm talking about the urine-soaked and slept-in shrubbery lining Finlay Park. I'm talking about the street hustlers accosting me when trying to enter the fantastic Richland County Library doors that we paid for but can't even use. Have you been around the city lately? These are just a few of the examples of scenes I've encountered, and I'm just one person. It is overwhelming and has GOT to be addressed and not just swept under the rug.

You are right, they are people, and they deserve their dignity. I couldn't agree more. Let's get serious about this, and not treat this casually as "they don't bother anyone, leave them alone". To leave them alone would be the ultimate indignity.

Your phrase "that we can't even use" in regard to the Richland County Public Library tells me you are way too focused on the homeless issue. I was just in the library today and didn't even think about the homeless who were in there. I am in the library all the time, and so are gobs of other people who are getting their tax dollars' worth out of it. I am a frequent user. You would be better served to use it as well if you have any reason to, rather than allow your perception of homeless people keep you away from it. And I use Finlay Park and never have smelled urine on the sidewalks there. I stand by what I said earlier, that when there is a reason to go to Main Street at night as opposed to the newly established entertainment districts, or rather in addition to them, the foot traffic will cause the homeless to go elsewhere or just blend in. My experience in New York and my five years living in D.C. showed me that.

[waccamatt]

My dream for Main Street is that it become home to trendy, eclectic, gourmet restaurants--including ethnic and international cuisine. Not chains, not beer and wings, and not college or even family-oriented. Funky, artsy, bohemian . . these are some words that come to mind (and there are plenty of others that would flock to such in this "most liberal" city in the state). Downtown Greenville has tons of new exciting restaurants such as these (and we all know Charleston has had for years.) We can too, hopefully. It has to be something that the Vista and 5 Points don't offer --- sophistication. (I am stunned that there are NO Thai restaurants anywhere downtown, for instance.) Places like Hush, Rust, Goatfeathers, Bird on a Wire and the like are examples of what would be ideal on Main Street, IMO (with unique concepts of their own, of course). Locally-owned with delicious food and fabulous ambience. Martini and Cosmo bars . . tiki huts . . cigar or hookah lounges . . Cuban, Vietnamese, and churrascaria restaurants . . bring 'em on!

Columbia has that in the Vista and Five Points. For whatever reason, at this point, Main Street has not developed like that. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal that "Main Street" become that when it already exists in other parts of downtown - the Vista and Five Points. As far as Thai Restaurants, there is a wonderful Thai Restaurant - Baan Sawan in Five Points and I think there is one on Taylor Street, too. All of the restaurants you listed are downtown, they just aren't on Main Street. Why is there such a fascination with Main Street being the center of nightlife? If we continue to push residential and hotel development in the Main Street area, then more restaurants and retail will follow. As far as the homeless are concerned, I work downtown, go to a gym (mostly at night) downtown and frequent the Vista and Five Points. Yes, there are some homeless, but other than them occasionally asking me for money, they leave me alone.

[Spartan]

I have always thought that Main St would eventually develop as an extension of the Vista, not a competing district.

People who blame the homeless for keeping other people away from anywhere are just using the homeless as a scapegoat.

Corgi, that is very well said. I agree 100%

[comingtocolumbia]

Heard from a friend of a friend that Dunkin' Donuts is coming to Main Street soon. I hope this is true - i love that place

[waccamatt]

Heard from a friend of a friend that Dunkin' Donuts is coming to Main Street soon. I hope this is true - i love that place

Dunkin' Donuts will be coming to everywhere in Columbia soon. They are planning on opening 25 more shops in the Columbia area in the next few years. Just what I need, more temptation in 25 more locations!

[johnpro318]

Wow, Dunkin' Donuts are gonna be everywhere! I expect two in the Village at Sandhill, two in Harbison, and one each in Five Points, the Vista, and Main Street. At least.

[goodbye]

Wow, Dunkin' Donuts are gonna be everywhere!

They are on a rampage all over the Southeast and other markets nationally as well. Our franchisee in South Carolina is Greer-based Kainos Partners, a "large area developer" for Dunkin' Donuts. The company has already opened several stores in the Upstate within the past year.

A Yahoo Finance article from February 2008 - According to this article, the first Kainos built Columbia store to open will be in the Lexington area this June. Other store locations to open this year include the Fort Jackson Base Hospital, Irmo, and West Columbia. The rest of the planned stores will open within five years. I assume the Main Street location will be built soon, depending on whether or not they have the storefront property lined up. I also would not be surprised to hear an announcement regarding the Main Street location similar to the one recently released regarding the"two level ... special showcase restaurant" on Greenville's Main Street. That would be great.