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Triad eventually being the largest metro in NC


jervais

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This is the second time that a US news magazine has been cited as an authority on the schools in NC. 

Bargain?

UNCC Tuition and fees (2004) - $3419

UNCG Tuition and fees (2004) - $3384

Savings = $35

And there are 9 universities in the UNC system that have lower tuition than UNCG

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Okay, that's all well and good, but until the rest of the world shares my views on higher learning, lots of people will continue to make life-altering decisions on arbitrarily designated "authorities" such as US News. Whether or not the rankings are of merit is irrelevant.

But if it makes you feel any better, I think they're mostly irrelevant.

Nice way to be hypocritical.

In one statement you essentially say Charlotte has nothing to offer compared to the grand metropolis of W-S in terms of high education.

Then right below that you talk about not "snub[ing] the time effort, and money put forth...".

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Well, here's where I stand. Colleges are colleges. To a large degree, the value of education one gets from any given institution depends more on the student than school. Despite that, the rankings found in the Princeton Review or US News or whatever play a major role in enrollment. Unfortunately, the belief that those rankings do more to hurt students than help (in many cases) doesn't change the fact that people are still going to use them to select their universities. Why? Well, because they know that - all things being equal - employers will almost always choose the candidate who whent to a more "prestigious" university. It's a fact of life. And it sucks. A viscious cycle and all that. Here's an example:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.ph...wtopic=9304&hl=

Full disclosure: My BA is a combination of credits from UNCC and UNCG.

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Yes the Triad has been larger than the triangle in MSA for some time now but it is not growing nearly as fast as the Triangle is. I think this is pure speculation and wishful thinking. Although it does have a chance to become a very nice metro area it just needs some work like the Triangle does also.

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I just don't see the Triad surpassing the Triangle or Charlotte. And who says they need to?

I think the Triad's bread and butter is going to be distribution, logistics and manufacturing. Sure there will be some small concetrations of bio-tech, engineering and design but I doubt they will be a defining industry for the region. And that to me is okay. The Triad will do well in the future and has a lot to look forward to. NC's three big metros are all uniquely different and that is good. We don't need to compete with one another. As time goes on, and the 3 regions continue to grow toward one another, I think we will find we are more connected than we are seperate. That connectivity, with the Triad being in the center of the other two will be an increasingly nice commodity to have. Therefore, whats go for Charlotte and Raleigh will ultimately help the Triad. In all, the Triad is a nice place to be and certainly will be in the future, but unlikely to be larger than the other two.

Quality over quantity any day.

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This is the second time that a US news magazine has been cited as an authority on the schools in NC. 

Bargain?

UNCC Tuition and fees (2004) - $3419

UNCG Tuition and fees (2004) - $3384

Savings = $35

And there are 9 universities in the UNC system that have lower tuition than UNCG

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lol.. i guess i'm saving $35 over uncc haha

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I think it's funny how someone starts a thread like this and all the Triangle and Charlotte forumers freak out, no the triad wont become bigger than Charlotte, the triangle is questionable, I really dont see the difference in size between two but hey its just my opinion.

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This is the second time that a US news magazine has been cited as an authority on the schools in NC. 

Bargain?

UNCC Tuition and fees (2004) - $3419

UNCG Tuition and fees (2004) - $3384

Savings = $35

And there are 9 universities in the UNC system that have lower tuition than UNCG

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Before I say anything, understand that I just graduated from UNCC and think the quality of my education in Computer Science was excellent, because I chose good professors. However; as someone who attended UNCG for two years as well, I must admit that overall I feel that UNCG is a better institution for undergraduate study. Of course UNCC has its good programs (namely, architecture), however, UNCG just seemed more consistently high-quality in terms of its faculty, its facilities, its campus, and its URBAN, much more pedestrian friendly neighborhood. The fact that on top of all this UNCG is STILL cheaper makes it a much better bargain than UNCC in my mind.

More generally speaking... to the other forumer who said that Charlotte matches the Triad in terms of post-secondary education.... no offense intended, but I think that statement is a little silly. I love many things about Charlotte, it's a very dynamic place to live, however, we are seriously struggling in education for a city our size. On the other hand, I actually believe that is the Triad's biggest strength.

Wake Forest - Speaks for itself.

NC A&T - High quality institution. I know two very intelligent non-minority chaps who attended there and they will both tell you that place is certainly NO JOKE. They may not have high admission standards, but those who don't have the right kind of drive end up dropping out or failing. At least they give everyone a chance.

NCSA - What surprises me is how many people keep forgetting about the NC School of the Arts, the only state-funded arts university in the nation. I know that their music school is top notch, and from what I understand, they have many mighty fine programs.

UNCG - I've already stated my affection for. As a sidenote, while attending there as a music performance major, I played in a trumpet ensemble that beat the Eastman School (which is one of the top 3 music schools in the country) in a national competition. The music school is one of the many good colleges there.

Salem Academy - A very good small all-female school. A highly intelligent friend of mine who was in the top ten of my graduating class at RJReynolds High, homecoming queen, loved or respected by all, and accepted into Chapel Hill, went to school there.

WSSU, HPU - I really don't know enough about these schools to say one way or the other.

.........Having spoken the praises of the Triad's learning institutions, I now would like to risk appearing a little hypocritical and say something to all the highly defensive forumers out there who are obviously taking this subject way too personally..... in the words of General Tarkin, "This bickering is pointless". I think all three of these metro areas have reasons to love them. They all have their own unique strengths, charms, and nitches. I think NC is blessed to have all three of them. Not that they couldn't learn anything from each ohter, but as long as they each try to be the best at what they are and not look to the others with jealous eyes, provoking attempted emulation, there's no telling how far they could go or great (as in quality, not quantity) they could be in the future.

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I think it's odd that Burlington and Alamance County weren't including as the Triad for so long. Every time I pass from Orange County into Alamance County (which is not very often anymore), on either 85/40 or Hwy 70 I think "I'm not in the Triangle anymore, I'm in the Triad", as if it looks any different lol I really like the area in between Durham/Chapel Hill and Burlington, including Mebane/Hillsborough. It's kind of country, yet suburban in nature in many areas. There's some nice hilly landscape, especially in Orange County north of Chapel Hill. I'm not really as familiar with pretty areas in Alamance, except a section of 4 lane Hwy 70 in Haw River right b4 Burlington has some nice rolling views. I know that regulations in Orange County will sort of control any kind of a growth explosion there in the coming yrs, but I'm not so sure about Alamance. I think that county is much more pro-growth then Orange. I can't see Mebane controlling it's growh much at all, it seems like it's poised to be one of the next boomtowns in the Triad. Hillsborough, on the other hand welcomes growth in certain areas, but is very picky about what it wants built, and is not very residential development friendly, which explains why the towns population has been essentially flat the last few decades...

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actully Burlington has always been a part of the Triad. Its just that several years ago, for some reason Burlington wanted to be dropped from the Triad and for about 2 years it wasnt in the Triad or Triangle but then they want to be included back in the metro. Greensboro and Burlinging are tied together in many ways so its hard to cross over into Burlington from the Triangle and not think you are in the Greensboro area. In the next 15 to 20 years, Greensboro and Burlington city limits will be touching.

The area between Durham and Burlington is nice. The land is unspoiled by sprawl. This is also the area where you begin to notice a difference in elevation. When i'm coming from Raleigh back to Greensboro, my ears begin to pop once I'm west of Chapel Hill. Raleigh is close to 300 feet above sea level and Greensboro is close to 900 feet above sea level. So the evelation level is dramatic. There are alot of hills west of Durham and it reminds me of Winston-Salem. Once you get to Burlington the land levels out on a plateu until you get near Winston-Salem. Then the topography changes again.

However on the far northwest side of Greensboro, there are more hills and its really noticable in the far northwest of Guilford County. You can even see big foot hills and small mountains in the distance in some areas near the northwestern corner of Guilford County. I was quite shocked when I saw them becasue I didnt know mountains were visible that close to Greensboro from the ground. I call it "4 corners" because thats where Guilford, Forsyth, Rockingham and Surry Counties meet.

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How does Elon rank?  It's a growing private university with a new law school on the way.

That's a terrible thing to say about any institution.  My father went to NC A&T and I disagree with that comment.  I mean, what are your standards of judgment?  Why is it a "joke"?  Job placements?  Rankings in polls?  Reputation in Academia based on how much research has been put out?  The quality of a person's education is not diminished because they go to a school that you don't think is good enough.  Current rankings and views on a university have nothing to do with it's potential, or the effect it has on each student or community.

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I agree with you....I attend Morehouse College (which is the Top School in the World for educating African-American Men) & it was PRETTY DAMN stressful try'n to get into the school. Staying in the school is proving to be one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life...lol. But seriously, people need to get a clue & stop judging different colleges/universities by using the swipe of the old race card. Its a bit pathetic to be thinking like that in 2005.

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Reality:

Top National Universities (US News and World Report)

5. Duke University

27. Wake Forest

29. UNC Chapel Hill

Top Engineering Schools Nationally(US News and World Report) NC Schools:

32. Duke University

34. NCSU

Top Med Schools (Research)

6. Duke University

23. UNC Chapel Hill

41. Wake Forest

National Academy of Science Members (One of the highest academic honors for researchers in all sciences)

Duke: 18

UNC-Chapel Hill: 11

NCSU: 9

Nobel Laureates:

Duke: 1

NIEHS/UNC/Duke: 1

Howard Hughes Medical Institute Researchers

Duke: 10

UNC-Chapel Hill: 1

All other NC colleges and universities have none in any of these categories.

BTW HBCs are a joke. As someone in academia I know they have no reputation-admissions standards are so low anyone could walk of the street. Ditto for WSSU.

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Wow DAN!!!! I would agree with you & that very intelligent person in academia if I wasn't currently attending an HBCU. That statement is so far behind reasonable thinking. Kummon, it is 2005 & I'm going to need you to get a better feeling of the world around you.

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BTW HBCs are a joke. As someone in academia I know they have no reputation-admissions standards are so low anyone could walk of the street. Ditto for WSSU.

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I wouldn't be surprised if this was actually coming from someone else who posts here under another name.

Try simply waltzing into Morehouse, Spelman, or Howard for starters.

And for someone "in academia," I must say that your syntax is superb: admissions standards are so low anyone could walk of the street.

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I think the Triad has found its niche. There are two big areas. Biotech manufactoring, which is a sector of the biotech industry that the Triangle has neglected. Other hitech manufacturing would also be included. The second big area is the design related industry that would include white collar firms. One reason why the Triad would make a great fit for design realated industries is becasue of its well established artsy culture and strong university art and interior design programs at Universities such as UNC-Greensboro and the North Carolina School of the Arts. There is also an effort under way in creating a National Design Institute in the Triad. Its an industry that will help attract the creative class and create a more cosmopolitan image for the region. The design industry would also contribute in to producing more interesting architecture in the region. A park in the middle of the Triad can be built for these design firms much like research firms in RTP. The design firms can range from interior design supporting the International Home Furnishings Market in High Point, software design, aviation design and technology/engineering design firms that can design for companies such as Ford, GM and NASA. NC A&T State Univ. in Greensboro already have contracts with NASA. These kind of design firms concentrated in a park similar to RTP would recruit great minds from all over the world. This is what the Triad is striving for but most importantly the Triad wants to have a diverse economy and build on other industries such as transportation and logistics as well. The Triad should also build on its film making heritage and I think a MAJOR film studio should be built in the middle of the Triad within the design park. The design industry would go hand in hand with hitech manufacturing in the Triad. Design firms for automobile companies could help attract automobile manufacturing plants. Likewise, software design firms could help attract or develope the asscociated manufacturing facilities for these software design firms.

I'm digging into an old thread, and I'm not getting into the 'will the Triad be the biggest' part of this thread (I apologize), but I'd like to elaborate on a few things here, and I really didn't know where else to post it.

It's thinking way outside of the box, but the idea of an arts-and-culture-and design equivalent to RTP is IMO a great one, full of severe logistical problems that would demand extremely innovative thinking, but great still.

First, such a project wouldn't necessarily need to be tied to a huge chunk of land in the Triad (this would in fact be a great liability - RTP is a great success in every way save for one - it's 'suburban campus' design encourages sprawl and blocks urban cohesion) - with technology, start-ups could be as dispersed around the Triad as the universities are, and it could still succeed. Some sort of visible identity would be an asset, but it wouldn't need to be anywhere close to the geographical size of RTP.

Second - such a venture, if so dispersed, should - in utilizing office space away from campuses - ideally locate in the downtowns, where a central focal point and infrastructure is already in place. This would provide your focal points for everything from urban infill to future mass transit.

Third - How to sell the idea? The Global TransPark - another ambitious project - hasn't (thus far) been such a major success, and plenty of money and effort has gone into getting it off the ground. Lots of folks in NC and elsewhere would be cool towards sinking a lot of $ into such a project, unless part of the envisioning could also include ways of minimizing the initial outlay of dollars. Setting up a foundation, as with RTP, would be a start, but a small one.

Four - Selling The Idea, part 2 - After the Mapplethorpe debacle 16 years ago, and - locally - Angels In America in Charlotte - I'd be extremely hesitant to try to get broad support for an arts/culture/design project like this with any major public money involved, given the potential for censorship-vs-morality type squabbles. Such a project would have to be very successful and self-reliant, very quickly.

Some other angles to consider?

Wilmington has the film infrastructure, privately owned, but it's already in place; Winston-Salem has the film school; this would also need to be considered.

In pitching such an idea, how do we convince people (money people, or film people) in the Triangle, or Charlotte, that such an idea (drawing from a statewide pool of talent and knowledge, but still based in the Triad) would be good for them? If a success, how would this raise the cultural profile of the Triad and the entire state, and how would that compare to the effect of RTP or banking in Charlotte?

You are correct in mentioning the film history of the state and Triad: David Gordon Green's George Washington was shot in W-S, and was a rare debut film to get into the Cannes Film Festival in France, and he's a product of the School of the Arts. Barbara Koppel in Durham won an Oscar for Panama Deception, and the Full Frane Doc Fest in Durham is now drawing submissions globally. Hal Ashby/Peter Sellers' Being There and David Lynch's Blue Velvet are but two of the more acclaimed films to be shot in the state. But the tax structure of filming in NC is less than perfect - other NC-connected projects (Cold Mountain was shot elsewhere, and though Tim Kirkman's Loggerheads was shot in/set in the state, he noted the expense of doing so made getting a green light on the project tough); ways of working around this - ideally without counting on tax breaks - would need to be envisioned.

I'm a big cinephile, and am all about rooting for NC film, and the emerging film community, which is well-spread around the state. Decades ago, in India, a film movement called "parallel cinema" emerged in Bengal, in Eastern India, concieved as an alternative to the more expensive and commercial Indian mainstream ("Bollywood") cinema - via the 1960s Film Festival and arthouse market, this movement ultimately spawned some of the most acclaimed and internationally known Indian filmmakers; and I kind of daydream about a modern US equivalent. Given the film community and history, NC would be a perfect place for this - an independently thinking and operating American alternative cinema, operating out of a creative think-tank of sorts (this project), with an infrastructure (Wilmington), film school (Winston-Salem), and a growing statewide indie film community already in place. Given the cutthroat realities of the commercial film industry, this would demand some very savvy, forward-thinking and aggressive thinking on all fronts - marketing, development, creativity and in convincing the outside world that they should give a damn - like RTP, it would demand thinking internationally and not just nationally: how do I get my project (whether film, engineering, interior design, theatre, arts, etc) off the ground here, and seen/bought/reviewed in Toronto, London, Cannes or Hong Kong? How do I get creative minds from those places interested in coming to the Triad to consult, lecture, collaborate?

Getting this up and running would be the effort to end all efforts, and given any number of more pressing economic needs, it may be a pie in the sky. But even so, in imagining the transitioning of the Triad and NC away from manufacturing and into something else, it's good to think big and creative in the quest for ideas. That's what gave birth to RTP and the financial mecca of Charlotte; now it's the Triad's turn...

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