The Atlanta (and suburbs) traffic congestion

[Tides]

Question for Atlantans ( If that is the correct term )

1. How do you deal with the notorious traffic congestion ?

2. Do you see the situation ever getting any better ?

This question applies to the suburbs as well , not just Atlanta .

And if anybody has traffic or congestion pics - please post them .

thanks ,

Tides

[teshadoh]

1. I feel it's a horribly negative aspect of Atlanta, & is the potential Achille's Heel for Atlanta's future. Yet it also may have a positive impact, as the detiorating traffic conditions may result in increasing density in the city center.

2. Yes & no. It will require more transit infrastructure, but with an increasing population - it's effect will be minimal. What it requires is a smarter commuter, someone that lives near their workplace (preferrably intown). Also, a region based transit improvement zone, not based solely on county taxes.

[Tides]

Wow , 119 views and only one

reply ?

Anyways , Teshadoh , I am really surprised that something hasn't been done by now about the traffic , but then again , they haven't even fixed the sewer system , and it is a crime how much the Hooch has been abused .

Atlanta is a wonderful city in many ways , but backwards in other ways , or so it seems .

cheers ,

Tides

[ironchapman]

Wow , 119 views and only one

  reply ?

    Anyways , Teshadoh , I am really surprised that something hasn't been done by now about the traffic , but then again , they haven't even fixed the sewer system , and it is a crime how much the Hooch has been abused .

    Atlanta is a wonderful city in many ways , but backwards in other ways , or so it seems .

    cheers ,

      Tides

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Traffic seems to be an inherited problem. there's no way Atlanta or any other city can or will (most likely) ever get rid of it. Certainly the governors plans to widen Atlanta's interstates are no help to the problem, but there are people who choose alternate means of transit. MARTA on a regular day, for example, gets 285,000 people on average. The gas shortage has certainly caused people to seek alternate means of transportation, as many transit services around the metro reported record numbers of ridership today.

The Beltline could probably help decrease some of the traffic if it gets a usable (for the average person) form of LRT or something like that. There have also been trolleys much like the ones in San Francisico proposed on a few streets in the city. The one up Peachtree Street certainly seems like it will even be approved someday!

Any help at all to you, Tides?

[Tides]

Traffic seems to be an inherited problem. there's no way Atlanta or any other city can or will (most likely) ever get rid of it. Certainly the governors plans to widen Atlanta's interstates are no help to the problem, but there are people who choose alternate means of transit. MARTA on a regular day, for example, gets 285,000 people on average. The gas shortage has certainly caused people to seek alternate means of transportation, as many transit services around the metro reported record numbers of ridership today.

....................................

Even though it sucks that the gas prices are so high , it is encouraging to see more Atlantans utilize Marta . Do you think if they extended Marta to Gwinnett , Cobb , and Douglas counties , would Atlantans utilize it enough to justify the cost ?

The Beltline could probably help decrease some of the traffic if it gets a usable (for the average person) form of LRT or something like that. There have also been trolleys much like the ones in San Francisico proposed on a few streets in the city. The one up Peachtree Street certainly seems like it will even be approved someday!

...................................

The Beltline seems like a great idea

indeed , but the sooner the better !

Any help at all to you, Tides?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.................................

Yes indeed , IronChapman , btw , do you have pics of Douglasville available ? Much appreciated .

Tides

[Lady Celeste]

I answered a whole bunch to this thread and my laptop crashed. let em try this again.

Question for Atlantans ( If that is the correct term )

    1. How do you deal with the notorious traffic congestion ?

Let's see. How do I deal with traffic?

The first thing I did was became familiar with alternative routes.

The second thing....and I'm lucky enough to have this option but I change my travel times and can travel off peak hours.

The third thing I do is leave in ample time. If I have a meeting at 2:30pm, I don't leave my home at 1:45pm....I leave at at 1:30pm. If I get to my destination early I just go have something to drink or eat.

The fourth thing I did.....and I did this a long time ago when I started to notice that traffic was increasing in Atlanta exponetially...I just began to expect that I would be stuck in traffic somewhere during my trip seven days a week. If I'm not in traffic during my trip then I'm happy because I arrived without the frustration. If I get caught in a backup, I just listen to great music....since I already expected it, it's less stress on me.

    2. Do you see the situation ever getting any better ?

Quite honestly no. If it does get better it will only be marginally. It may cause more local governments to consider public transportation....although I'm not totally optimistic.

[Tides]

I answered a whole bunch to this thread and my laptop crashed.    let em try this again.

.................................

  That sucks ! Thanks for retyping .

Let's see. How do I deal with traffic?

The first thing I did was became familiar with alternative routes.

The second thing....and I'm lucky enough to have this option but I change my travel times and can travel off peak hours.

The third thing I do is leave in ample time. If I have a meeting at 2:30pm, I don't leave my home at 1:45pm....I leave at at 1:30pm. If I get to my destination early I just go have something to drink or eat.

The fourth thing I did.....and I did this a long time ago when I started to notice that traffic was increasing in Atlanta exponetially...I just began to expect that I would be stuck in traffic somewhere during my trip seven days a week. If I'm not in traffic during my trip then I'm happy because I arrived without the frustration. If I get caught in a backup, I just listen to great music....since I already expected it, it's less stress on me.

...............................

  Very good solutions , and you are clearly making the best of the situation .

 

Quite honestly no. If it does get better it will only be marginally. It may cause more local governments to consider public transportation....although I'm not totally optimistic.

................................

Lady Celeste , in your opinion ,

what are the obstacles ( besides not enough public transportation) that keep the traffic situation from improving ?

  And thank you again for answering my other questions in the favorite neighborhoods thread.

  Oh , just to remind anyone reading this , if anyone has pics of Atlanta congestion on the freeways and interstates please post them .

    cheers ,

      Tides

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Lady Celeste]

Lady Celeste , in your opinion ,

what are the obstacles ( besides not enough public transportation) that keep the traffic situation from improving ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I feel that the biggest obstacle is how growth is managed in this metropolitan area. To me it appears that every county is out for themselves.....with a few exceptions...as far as development is concern. There is no concerted effort for cooperative solutions in terms of growth. As long as each county allows unbridled growth, coupled with limited or no public transportation, traffic concerns will not be totally addressed.

This of course is my opinion only......

Another problem I see is affordable housing either close to the city center or near public transportation for families. Some people do not have the options to live in the city center. Take for example, the home I live in in the suburbs....for the amount of square footage and upgrades...nevermind the yard...would probably cost between 85 and 150% more. Sure people could say you can live in smaller space. Honestly, that may be true but with most people, they want to do more for their children than their parents did for them. Why would I want to see two or three children per bedroom.

Granted in other countries they may already do this and their children turn out just fine but for people in the US it will take a couple of generations to get out of the mindset of "I would like for a nice yard and great schools for my children."

Until these issues are addressed, more families will be less likely to move to the center city or locations closer to public transportation hubs. Of course these rigid rules will relax as gas prices increase.

[ironchapman]

Even though it sucks that the gas prices are so high , it is encouraging to see more Atlantans utilize Marta . Do you think if they extended Marta to Gwinnett , Cobb , and Douglas counties , would Atlantans utilize it enough to justify the cost ?

I could certainly see the ridership go up if it went into those counties. However, most of them are vehemently against them for fear of the "bad element" moving in. As to if it would be enough to merit extending the lines into those counties, it ould go either ay IMO. It always seemed to me though that the reason people in counties that border Fulton never ride MARTA HRT is because it isn'tmade availiable to them because their own counties' provide transit.

Based upon their past decisions, the only of those counties that I could see allowing MARTA would be Douglas because they have never really made much of a stance on the issue because MARTA never really wanted to extend into the county in the first place. At least the other counties have some form of transit availiable (Cobb and Gwinnett both have independent bus systes that connect to the MARTA buses).

@Douglasville Pics: I have only a couple on my computer, I'll post them in the Atlanta Photo of the Day thread later. I might could scan some in later, if I have any good ones.

Well I feel that the biggest obstacle is how growth is managed in this metropolitan area. To me it appears that every county is out for themselves.....with a few exceptions...as far as development is concern. There is no concerted effort for cooperative solutions in terms of growth. As long as each county allows unbridled growth, coupled with limited or no public transportation, traffic concerns will not be totally addressed.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Tides]

IronChapman and LadyCeleste , I do not wish to turn this into a political debate , but in your opinions , which of the political parties would offer more effective solutions for the traffic gridlock ?

To put it in another way , which of the parties is more to blame for this traffic situation ?

Oh , IronChapman , still waiting for those Douglasville pics , if you have any .

cheers ,

Tides

[Lady Celeste]

IronChapman and LadyCeleste , I do not  wish to turn this into a political debate , but in your opinions , which of the political parties would offer more effective solutions for the traffic gridlock ?

  To put it in another way , which of the parties is more to blame for this traffic situation ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will answer from my prespective.

I think this issue transcends politics. Money is green and both parties need it. Unfortunately, development is more green than transit.

For over 100 years Georgia was majority democratic (in terms of elected officials) and transit did not flourish. Georgia now has a republican governor, majority republican senate and house of rep and still no talk of regional transportation. I will give fmr. Governor Barnes a few points for even trying to start GRTA (Georgia Regional Transit Authority). Quite honestly, it's not about political parties as much as it's about the politics of green.

MARTA is one of the largest transit systems in America without any funding from the state. The state of Georgia didn't realize the gem that was to become Atlanta.

Which party to blame? Neither. I think metro Atlanta's transit woes were intially money but lack of vision.....then came the racial issues....now there's the vision but no money.

[ironchapman]

I will answer from my prespective.

I think this issue transcends politics. Money is green and both parties need it. Unfortunately, development is more green than transit.

For over 100 years Georgia was majority democratic (in terms of elected officials) and transit did not flourish. Georgia now has a republican governor, majority republican senate and house of rep and still no talk of regional transportation. I will give fmr. Governor Barnes a few points for even trying to start GRTA (Georgia Regional Transit Authority). Quite honestly, it's not about political parties as much as it's about the politics of green.

MARTA is one of the largest transit systems in America without any funding from the state. The state of Georgia didn't realize the gem that was to become Atlanta.

[Spartan]

Traffic seems to be an inherited problem. there's no way Atlanta or any other city can or will (most likely) ever get rid of it. Certainly the governors plans to widen Atlanta's interstates are no help to the problem, but there are people who choose alternate means of transit. MARTA on a regular day, for example, gets 285,000 people on average. The gas shortage has certainly caused people to seek alternate means of transportation, as many transit services around the metro reported record numbers of ridership today.

The Beltline could probably help decrease some of the traffic if it gets a usable (for the average person) form of LRT or something like that. There have also been trolleys much like the ones in San Francisico proposed on a few streets in the city. The one up Peachtree Street certainly seems like it will even be approved someday!

Any help at all to you, Tides?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is that 285k figure system wide or just the HRT?

As a visitor, I don't deal with it. I take the MARTA rail. I am rarely there driving) diring peak hours. The Beltline project I find very exciting. I woudl enojy exploring new areas of the city without needing a car

[ironchapman]

Is that 285k figure system wide or just the HRT?

As a visitor, I don't deal with it. I take the MARTA rail. I am rarely there driving) diring peak hours. The Beltline project I find very exciting. I woudl enojy exploring new areas of the city without needing a car

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's just HRT, but I'm not sure. Teshadoh could prbably tell if he was here.

EDIT: This post is where I got my fiures from

[teshadoh]

^ I just read monsoon's post - he stated that an average of 285k ride MARTA on the weekend. Don't know anything else beyond that.

Interesting study being conducted where I work - it is, based on current & projected congestion & including future Trans Infr Projects how many lanes would be needed to widen. It produced the most insane numbers - yet it was clearly correct. So - it is physically impossible for the interstate system in Atlanta to widen in order to reduce congestion.

[Newnan]

The traffic is very bad, but I see it improving (!) Marta seems to be picking up speed because of the high gas prices and the migration to the city, The beltline will help a lot, the proposed train lines to several of the outlying suburbs could be approved, and besides that, I think people will just get tired of being in their cars. A few days ago in my carpool. I was riding with the typical suburban soccer mom. She has an ford expedition and everything. We somehow got on the discussion of traffic and mass transit and she said that is Coweta county has safe affordable and efficient mass transit, she would definitely use it. This definitely got my hopes up. Everyone's getting tired of living in theor cars here, even SOCCER MOM'S! I think things are going to change-Soon!

[teshadoh]

Here comes the cynic - a lot of suburban people comment if 'transit was safe, affordable, & convinient' they would use it, hell even people in the city. I don't see an influx towards using transit, or outlying counties joining MARTA or developing their own transit, most will still use their car. As long as land uses dictate a car oriented existence, people will follow suit.

Another big problem - funding. The current ARC Regional Transportation Plan is not fully funded, & will at best make traffic not too worse for the year 2030. It will take a huge investment in transportation infrastructure, something the state & metro area has been unwilling to consider.

[Lady Celeste]

      And if anybody has traffic or congestion pics - please post them .

      thanks ,

      Tides

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a picture for you Tides.

This picture is showing a Marta train travelling over I-85 on it's way to the Arts Center Station. The congested lanes are heading south into midtown/downtown. Ironically the far right lane is the High Occupancy Vehicle Lane (HOV). This image is about 2500' before the Brookwood Interchange which starts the Downtown Connector. I can't tell if this is AM traffic or PM traffic.....both rush-hour periods look the same.

[ironchapman]

^I find that strangely ironic that a MARTA train is in a traffic pic.

[teshadoh]

This image is about 2500' before the Brookwood Interchange which starts the Downtown Connector. I can't tell if this is AM traffic or PM traffic.....both rush-hour periods look the same. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are right - north bound Downtown Connector & this portion of I-85 is congested in the morning & evening.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Question for Atlantans ( If that is the correct term )

    1. How do you deal with the notorious traffic congestion ?

    2. Do you see the situation ever getting any better ?

    This question applies to the suburbs as well , not just Atlanta .

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. Living in the city certainly helps. Dh owns a company in Inman Park, so we always lived nearby in VA-HI or Midtown. I mostly telecommute for my job, so traffic isn't an issue for my job unless I'm late for a flight. (The company I work for is on the opposite coast.) It's much easier to get what you need Intown these days, too. Lots more grocery choices. More bookstores, restaurants, drugstores... Even a Home Depot on Ponce. Combined with the small businesses located Intown, there is no real need to leave the city anymore.

2. I think the situation will get better once people realize they are the source of their own problem. People have got to realize it isn't necessary to live in the suburbs and work in the city. They should at least try public transportation more often. I noticed the recent gas price increase has more people taking or considering taking MARTA. That's good news. Hopefully, this will mark a change in the way people approach city living.

BTW- People complain a lot about traffic in Atlanta. Frankly, traffic isn't better in many other cities. Here in Charlotte, it's as bad as Atlanta with fewer people on the roads. Of course, Charlotte doesn't offer as much in the way of public transportation, so people here at least have that excuse.

[teshadoh]

1. Living in the city certainly helps. Dh owns a company in Inman Park, so we always lived nearby in VA-HI or Midtown. I mostly telecommute for my job, so traffic isn't an issue for my job unless I'm late for a flight. (The company I work for is on the opposite coast.) It's much easier to get what you need Intown these days, too. Lots more grocery choices. More bookstores, restaurants, drugstores... Even a Home Depot on Ponce. Combined with the small businesses located Intown, there is no real need to leave the city anymore.

Didn't realize you lived near me - there is actually a Lowes nearer to Inman Park, where Atlanta Gas Light used to be on Moreland is a mixed use project that includes Target, Kroger, Office Depot, Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, etc. etc.

True - especially with Atlantic Station, we're finally self sufficient with shopping & now everything is a short distance from an intown MARTA station.

[charlotte_bon_vivant]

Didn't realize you lived near me - there is actually a Lowes nearer to Inman Park, where Atlanta Gas Light used to be on Moreland is a mixed use project that includes Target, Kroger, Office Depot, Barnes & Noble, Best Buy, etc. etc.

True - especially with Atlantic Station, we're finally self sufficient with shopping & now everything is a short distance from an intown MARTA station.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I live near you sometimes. We maintain a residence in Atlanta because we travel there so much. If we didn't have a house there, we'd have to stay with my mother because she'd be insulted if we chose a hotel over her. We're looking for a high rise condo now because it would be easier to maintain, plus I like the idea of living in one.

The Lowes in Edgewood? I've been to Target there, but I usually go to Home Depot in Atlanta. I'm very happy with Atlantic Station. I hope to see more similar devlopments not only in Atlanta, but around the country.

Atlanta has changed so much over the years. I can't get over it. I mean, it looks more and more like a real city. Like Midtown is amazing now. All these gorgeous buildings and tons of people everywhere. If Atlanta keeps up this progress, it may one day become a "world class" city.

[Tides]

Interesting study being conducted where I work - it is, based on current & projected congestion & including future Trans Infr Projects how many lanes would be needed to widen. It produced the most insane numbers - yet it was clearly correct. So - it is physically impossible for the interstate system in Atlanta to widen in order to reduce congestion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Tides]

Here comes the cynic - a lot of suburban people comment if 'transit was safe, affordable, & convinient' they would use it, hell even people in the city. I don't see an influx towards using transit, or outlying counties joining MARTA or developing their own transit, most will still use their car. As long as land uses dictate a car oriented existence, people will follow suit.

..................................

Teshadoh , so even if transit is convenient and hassle free , you don't think it is going to make much of a difference ? Does this apply specifically to Atlanta , or other large urban areas as well ?

Another big problem - funding. The current ARC Regional Transportation Plan is not fully funded, & will at best make traffic not too worse for the year 2030. It will take a huge investment in transportation infrastructure, something the state & metro area has been unwilling to consider.

.................................

With the way the area is growing , metro and the state had better change their way of thinking , and soon , in my humble opinion .

Girly - so Charlotte has just as much traffic congestion as Atlanta ? Will completion of I 485 and the new rail system make a difference ?

Awesome discussion , everyone , please carry on .

Tides