Bloomsbury Estates

[RALNATIVE]

Maybe ^ and construction has slowed b/c they're coming to their senses about how hideous the design is and there's still a chance to change it to less of a bat and halloween magnet.

One can only hope. I agree with you on this one. I think that it's ridiculous to build modern structures that resemble the architecture of days gone by. I think that the entire concept for this place is wrong for any growing city.

[Transplant]

One can only hope. I agree with you on this one. I think that it's ridiculous to build modern structures that resemble the architecture of days gone by. I think that the entire concept for this place is wrong for any growing city.

Sorry folks, I disagree with you both. We can't be restricted to building modern-looking buildings.

I like the design of these.

[orulz]

I have nothing wrong with the architectural style of Bloomsbury, I rather like it. What I'm not keen on is the site plan. This development is laid out like something I would expect at South Park in Charlotte, or Buckhead in Atlanta, not Downtown Raleigh. It's designed to look pretty and exclusive from the street, but doesn't really engage it. There's a fence between the buildings and the sidewalks, and from the video on the renderings page of the website, it appears to lack any pedestrian connection to Boylan whatsoever - there's only a vehicular driveway.

[yoga]

I hope you are not even partly serious. New condos in Raleigh are generally lacking when it comes to changing up the designs. Based on how many have sold, and hence its ability to go to actual construction, I would say many others like the design just fine. FYI, this is called Second Empire architecture. In Raleigh, Second Empire Restaurant (obviously)(1879) the three Heck Houses at East and Jones(1875), The Heck Andrews House on Blount(1870), and Century Post Office(1878) all are Second Empire in style.

I'm actually completely serious. I think that style is inappropriate for that scale, it's much better suited to a single house scale. There are plenty of other fresh geometric possibilities without reverting to something that's already been done. Like this. Or this. Or even this. IMHO, there's very little honest architecture out there, period. By honest, I mean design that is true to the use, material, and both local and temporal context.

That being said, just because people like it enough to invest in it doesn't mean I have to, also. They can invest to their heart's content for all I care. Different strokes. I'll take my bats in a Corbu style building, thanks.

[Jones_]

I'm actually completely serious. I think that style is inappropriate for that scale, it's much better suited to a single house scale. There are plenty of other fresh geometric possibilities without reverting to something that's already been done. Like this. Or this. Or even this. IMHO, there's very little honest architecture out there, period. By honest, I mean design that is true to the use, material, and both local and temporal context.

That being said, just because people like it enough to invest in it doesn't mean I have to, also. They can invest to their heart's content for all I care. Different strokes. I'll take my bats in a Corbu style building, thanks.

I like all of the stuff you linked to. And, for my taste I would not really want to live in Bloomsbury either.....I imagine it appeals to people age 60+ who like walnut finishes, floor to ceiling libraries and who do not really like to walk around the city much (nod to Orulz). Having said that, there is plenty of architectual merit in the building...it is good to not let let styles drift into the land of 'won't ever do it again', and while I like the stuff you showed, abstract geometric designs have obviosuly been done before as well (Frank Lloyd Wright anyone?). You have to have a variety of places to choose from. Homogoneous styles, no matter the type, lead to homogenous everything else downtown, people, commercial offerings, entertainment choices.....if you really think this building should not have been built (I still agree w/ Orulz on the site plan) then I think you are off base...if you just don't prefer it, as I don't, then yeah, different strokes for sure....

As for the scale...the Wikipedia article alone shows several monumental scale buildings.....Second Empire is certainly not folk architecture...I think the scale is more or less appropriate.

[dmccall]

I love it!

[ncwebguy]

At the time they were planning for this development, and the townhouses on Hargett a block or so to the west, west of Boylan didn't seem part of "downtown Raleigh". Downtown seemed to stop at Boylan, except maybe along the Hillsborough Street corridor. The idea of an urban structure overe there seemed foreign, and developers bulit the only multi-family projects they knew -- townhouses or low rise buildings with plenty of close parking.

The condos on Martin east of Harrington and Park Deveraux were other examples of this same mentality. Now they are dead, faceless buildings in middle of connecting F Street and the CBD to Glenwood South and points west. With Bloomsbury, the writing was on the wall, with Moonlight, Snoopys, and Char-Grill nearby, but the devlopers didn't want to deal with the "mess" of putting residential units on top of other units (office, retail) that create street level life. Instead there is a "not yours" fence. While there aren't guard towers like the nearby Central Prison, Bloomsbury will never be part of the urban fabric of downtown by choice. If all the new downtown projects followed this pattern, downtown would feel like an abandoned prison colony with people using cars to go anywhere.

I think they could have kept the second empire look *and* kept an urban form -- buildings close to the sidewalk, no fence, a corner cafe/doctor's office/art studio/whatever else. There are a lot of buildings I don't like or understand, but I am not going to deny other people their right to them because of my personal taste. I hope it isn't a "Disney version of Second Empire", but feels like a modern take on the style.

[sax184]

I love the Bloomsbury styling, AND I wish it was more interactive with the street. There are plenty of fantastic Second Empire buildings that embrace streetscapes- very few of them are found in NC, unfortunately. Modernism has produced very few buildings worth admiring. Post-modernism is doing a bit better.

[bdp]

I like it, too!

[yoga]

if you really think this building should not have been built (I still agree w/ Orulz on the site plan) then I think you are off base...if you just don't prefer it, as I don't, then yeah, different strokes for sure....

I didn't say I didn't think the building should have been built. Just expressing my opinions. There is no right or wrong with architecture, it's all personal subjective preference in my book. With that, I shall exit thread.

[ChiefJoJo]

After what seems like at least a month off (not sure what the delay was) crews at the Bloomsbury are back at work. I noticed work was moving forward this morning on the first bldgs seventh, and last floor.

[Jones_]

Bloomsbury is finally starting to frame up......slow but sure it inches along....

[ChiefJoJo]

Bloomsbury is finally starting to frame up......slow but sure it inches along....

Unless you're seeing something I missed, it's been weeks since I've seen any activity whatsoever over there. The crane has been in the same position for this entire week. If you look back at the thread, I can clearly recall Bloomsbury having a head start on 222 Glenwood (which was painstakingly slow to start the structural work), but after this spring and summer, clearly 222 is vastly ahead, despite a larger structure. If Bloomsbury had continued at their initial pace, they'd have both bldgs framed up by now.

[capitalapts]

Unless you're seeing something I missed, it's been weeks since I've seen any activity whatsoever over there. The crane has been in the same position for this entire week. If you look back at the thread, I can clearly recall Bloomsbury having a head start on 222 Glenwood (which was painstakingly slow to start the structural work), but after this spring and summer, clearly 222 is vastly ahead, despite a larger structure. If Bloomsbury had continued at their initial pace, they'd have both bldgs framed up by now.

Jones is right, they have been slowly, oh so slowly, framing it up on the south side. The crane has stayed in that position for a while though. I wonder what is up with the contractor there. Perhaps it's the same outfit working on the shopping center on Glasscock and Brookside!

[Jones_]

Jones is right, they have been slowly, oh so slowly, framing it up on the south side. The crane has stayed in that position for a while though. I wonder what is up with the contractor there. Perhaps it's the same outfit working on the shopping center on Glasscock and Brookside!

My thoughts exactly.......the eastern face of the building is being framed as well...got a picture but my laptop crapped out so I can't upload it just yet....this post coming from work.....

[dmccall]

I think that it's ridiculous to build modern structures that resemble the architecture of days gone by.

Like the NC State Capitol, Memorial Auditorium, Duke Chapel, UNC Old Well, Christ Church... Montecello, UVA Rotunda, Jefferson Memorial, Lincoln Memorial, The Met...

[Gard]

One can only hope. I agree with you on this one. I think that it's ridiculous to build modern structures that resemble the architecture of days gone by. I think that the entire concept for this place is wrong for any growing city.

Well don't ever go to D.C. then, you'll be quite disappointed when you get there to find arcitectural styles from ancient Rome and Greece all over the place.

[TheFutureIsNow]

I don't know how anyone could think that this poor imitation of "Second Empire" style is nice looking. First of all, like many other similarly designed buildings with the same intentions of looking 'old' and 'classic', they almost never turn out like the renderings. This is mostly because the materials used are of poor quality, and the fact that most developers don't have the money or time to really put details into their projects that would actually resemble buildings of the original architectural style. And developers aren't ever looking to really design something that celebrates their surroundings, they are looking to create a structure with optimal space and amenities. So why can't developers move beyond trying to imitate the past, and take elements of the past and mix them with something new and innovative. And in doing so doesn't have to turn out like a modernist nightmare, it can and has been successfully done in places such as Portland, San Diego, and Denver.

[Jones_]

I don't know how anyone could think that this poor imitation of "Second Empire" style is nice looking. First of all, like many other similarly designed buildings with the same intentions of looking 'old' and 'classic', they almost never turn out like the renderings. This is mostly because the materials used are of poor quality, and the fact that most developers don't have the money or time to really put details into their projects that would actually resemble buildings of the original architectural style. And developers aren't ever looking to really design something that celebrates their surroundings, they are looking to create a structure with optimal space and amenities. So why can't developers move beyond trying to imitate the past, and take elements of the past and mix them with something new and innovative. And in doing so doesn't have to turn out like a modernist nightmare, it can and has been successfully done in places such as Portland, San Diego, and Denver.

I see you are from Fairfax...have you been to Raleigh to see what else is going on? I would say the Hudson and ultimately Boylan Flats stray in different directions nicely and mix different forms. How about have you seen the surroundings of Bloomsbury? It sits next to an early 20th century neighborhood with a large antebellum villa on one side and Gambrel roofed farmhouse on the other with other nearby Quuen Anne homes. And did you know the developer allowed an archaelogical dig of the site before digging foundations? I would think this is at least an indication that this guy wants to do it right...in so far as right concerns the design he has chosen. What choice materials are used here vs. period anyway?.....brick(check), concrete to replace stone perhaps thats ok by me, virgin wood was gone by the late 19th century so wood is wood, pine, oak, maple or otherwise. I personally would not live here, but man I am tired of this place getting bashed wihle I think its much easier to critique the constant flow of Paramount/Dawson/Tucker/111 Seaboard/222 Glenwood/West at North looking things....talk about not having any imagination.....

[JeffC]

And did you know the developer allowed an archaelogical dig of the site before digging foundations?

Hey Jones, did the dig find anything interesting? Any traces of the old Wake County Courthouse? I am assuming after that courthouse disappeared there were some other things on that site, or were there? Did the parcel ever contain a house between courthouse and empty lot days (at least since the 1980s...)?

[tjoad]

I personally like the design and hope the developer lives up to the rendering's promise. But I also would not like to live there. If I were to live in downtown I would like to be in the thick of things (ie CBD) and not on the fringes. I would like to be in short walking distance to everyday amenities, but from this location the walks could be a bit too long for my liking.

Another big reason would have to be CENTRAL PRISON. I could not invest in a space which has this 800 lb. gorilla on it's backyard. If only someday the state would decide to relocate that monstrosity, that would open up so many possibilities. Has there ever been any effort on the part of the city, or any other citizens' group to relocate it?

[Jones_]

Hey Jones, did the dig find anything interesting? Any traces of the old Wake County Courthouse? I am assuming after that courthouse disappeared there were some other things on that site, or were there? Did the parcel ever contain a house between courthouse and empty lot days (at least since the 1980s...)?

The dig showed evidence of two structures but they only dug two trenches at the site so someting could have been missed. I have seen photos of and there was found, a foundation of a late 19th century house. The photo showed two or three houses there at the turn of the century...I think the current bridge had a part of the old site graded away beyond what the tracks needed previously so foundations could have been lost then too.....I found slate shingles, old electrical components and lots of nice pieces of chinaware that appear to date from then, plus it looks pretty obvious it burned.....anyway, much cooler is that an eighteenth century basement was found farther off Boylan. The guys doing the dig supposedly found an entire cow skeleton and other stuff from the late 1700's too. This is of course contempory with both Lanes house and the first courthouse. The speculation is that what was found was a middle class dwelling somehow associated with the little village of Bloomsbury but that is was not the courthouse or even one of Lanes servants (slaves) houses. I know of at least one slave that lived near Wills Forest off Glenwood...he was actually free, named Will, so suspect most of Lanes slaves lived in that northerly direction too. Also, several graves were found when the railroad was cut in the 1850's. They were on what was a hill sloping downward to the west and were thought to be Tories hung for treason. Lanes family graveyard was behind Moonlight Pizza.

[ChiefJoJo]

I like the design of the buildings... at least it's unique compared to the others mentioned above. I do not like the site plan, with it's exterior fencing in effect yelling, "keep out" to it's neighbors. Should interact with Boylan more closely, no fencing, etc. The city had a good argument for requiring more, since its near the future MTC, TTA, etc.

Jones, I stand corrected, they are moving on the first bldg's ext walls, etc. I do think something's up with the 2nd bldg, as they do not need the crane for the internal framing... it seems to me time would be better spent moving to the other structure, demoing the bldg there*, pouring footings*, upper floors*, etc.

*none of these items has been started yet.

[ChiefJoJo]

Quick update from the N&O on this project:

Bloomsbury Estates. The 117-unit condominium project, at the southwest corner of Boylan and Hargett, was to be completed in December. Developer John Bruckel says the project was delayed by some last-minute interior layout tweaks. He now says the first 56 units in the two-phase project will be completed by August 2008. He plans to begin on the second phase early next year.

Finally, some explanation for the snails pace on that project. I had been wondering if they were going to hold off on the second phase, but this seems to indicate they are moving forward.

[Transplant]

Quick update from the N&O on this project:

Bloomsbury Estates. The 117-unit condominium project, at the southwest corner of Boylan and Hargett, was to be completed in December. Developer John Bruckel says the project was delayed by some last-minute interior layout tweaks. He now says the first 56 units in the two-phase project will be completed by August 2008. He plans to begin on the second phase early next year.

Finally, some explanation for the snails pace on that project. I had been wondering if they were going to hold off on the second phase, but this seems to indicate they are moving forward.

I always scratch my head when a 'minor tweak' takes 8 extra months.