Miller & Rhoads Hilton Hotel/Condo Conversion

[Downtowner]

no burt I went down Markert and Arch ST's

[burt]

Your top picture, coupe, reminds me of the throngs of shoppers and tourist out today along 5th Avenue around Rockefella Plaza and St Patricks Cathedral.

I remember as a kid my mother holding me tightly by the hand as we negotiated the crowds on Broad Street. People used to be shoulder to shoulder moving from Kaufman's to M&R to Thalhimers to Greentrees. The somewhat lighter traffic on Grace near the the two big stores, Berry Burk, and Montaldo's was almost a relief! We would sometimes stop for tea or hot chocolate at Wright's restaurant on Grace between 5th and 6th.

Incidentally, Perry Ellis (if anybody remembers the famous designer) was a window designer in his early career at Miller & Rhoads.

[StevenRocks]

going along with that... that's why I've been suggesting including the tea room as one of the restaurant options at the soon to be hotel. You probably haven't seen this PBS series called Richmond Memories, but one of them focuses on downtown retail back in the day, particularly Miller&Rhoads and Thalhimer's.....During the holidays, they used to go all out on the window decorations.... I wish I had been alive to see/remember them. I think that is also something they could do, if they wanted to honor the history of the building.

I haven't seen the series, but I totally get where you're coming from on this.

Your top picture, coupe, reminds me of the throngs of shoppers and tourist out today along 5th Avenue around Rockefella Plaza and St Patricks Cathedral.

I remember as a kid my mother holding me tightly by the hand as we negotiated the crowds on Broad Street. People used to be shoulder to shoulder moving from Kaufman's to M&R to Thalhimers to Greentrees. The somewhat lighter traffic on Grace near the the two big stores, Berry Burk, and Montaldo's was almost a relief! We would sometimes stop for tea or hot chocolate at Wright's restaurant on Grace between 5th and 6th.

Incidentally, Perry Ellis (if anybody remembers the famous designer) was a window designer in his early career at Miller & Rhoads.

Good points and memories, burt. I did not realize that Pery Ellis worked at M&R.

[wrldcoupe4]

Your top picture, coupe, reminds me of the throngs of shoppers and tourist out today along 5th Avenue around Rockefella Plaza and St Patricks Cathedral.

I remember as a kid my mother holding me tightly by the hand as we negotiated the crowds on Broad Street. People used to be shoulder to shoulder moving from Kaufman's to M&R to Thalhimers to Greentrees. The somewhat lighter traffic on Grace near the the two big stores, Berry Burk, and Montaldo's was almost a relief! We would sometimes stop for tea or hot chocolate at Wright's restaurant on Grace between 5th and 6th.

Incidentally, Perry Ellis (if anybody remembers the famous designer) was a window designer in his early career at Miller & Rhoads.

wow I didn't know that about Perry Ellis... I think I have a pair of perry ellis pants lol.

How I wish we could see foot traffic like that again in Richmond... unfortunately, I doubt itll ever happen again. There's a chance that the storefronts will come back to life though. All the nearby conversions are really beacons of hope...

[tombarnes]

I really hope that some of the history of the building can be preserved. I remember occasional shopping trips to Richmond with my mother and grandparents. Mrs. Rhoads lived at Elmington in Gloucester-- a very kind and gracious lady too.

[burt]

In the picture of the elevators you can glimpse a little section of the famous clock. It's where friends met - "under the clock at Millan Roads", as we Southerners called it.

Under the clock outside on Thalhimer's at 6th and Broad was also a famous meeting place. You could watch the streetcars coming down Broad and hope your friend would alight from one and then, go off together to a first-run movie at Loew's or the National or the State or the Colonial. OR, to a western at The Grand or the Park. Ah, memories!

[StevenRocks]

Sounds very nice, burt.

[wrldcoupe4]

too bad racism and prejudice caused white flight to the suburbs, which caused the city's retail district (and much of the city in general) to suffer a slow painful death. I wish a place like Thalhimer's or "Millen Rhoads" was still around. I never even had a chance to enjoy them.. Shame... I love hearing about how it used to be though. Hopefully there's a slim chance the city's future will in some form resemble it's past (at least in this regard).

[StevenRocks]

too bad racism and prejudice caused white flight to the suburbs, which caused the city's retail district (and much of the city in general) to suffer a slow painful death. I wish a place like Thalhimer's or "Millen Rhoads" was still around. I never even had a chance to enjoy them.. Shame... I love hearing about how it used to be though. Hopefully there's a slim chance the city's future will in some form resemble it's past (at least in this regard).

I agree.

[wrldcoupe4]

A fancy dept. store (not found elsewhere in the area) should build a store downtown next to the new M&R hotel on the block bound by broad, 4th and 5th. Throw in a Tiffany's and some other shops along broad and particularly along grace and I think it would be cool.

[tombarnes]

It would be rather ironic for them to build a new department store after having destroyed the two they had downtown. Of course, I think the Miller & Rhoads project is an excellent use for the building.

[wrldcoupe4]

I forgot to mention something from when I was taking pictures. It seemed like they were starting to remove the facade from the part of M&R that faces broad st. (I guess what is the older part)... It looked like the facade is actually a stucco that they are removing to show the original skin beneath. I guess I should have taken a picture of it... What was underneath looked nice though.

[burt]

The renderings show the "stucco" design which I always found attractive. Somebody on the other board posted a picture of the original store before it was redesigned with its present facade, but I couldn't begin to tell you how to find the picture.

I believe the "stucco" look was added in the 1930s, and one or two floors were added to the Grace Street building after World War II.

[wrldcoupe4]

Either the facade was falling off (which I don't think is the case) or they are planning on taking it off...or maybe they were just curious as to what was underneath it? It would be a good question for Joey to ask Mr. Laing.

Both renderings we've seen show it being preserved.

[burt]

A sidebar! I believe Millan Rhoads' old clock is on display at the Valentine Museum (or whatever its name is now).

Also, M&R was the understated, elegant conservative emporium that very much appealed to "old" Richmond, while Thalhimer's was hip and with it - very New York.

[wrldcoupe4]

I'll post a story on it from richmond.com....

and yes i believe the clock is at the Valentine.

[StevenRocks]

M&R was the understated, elegant conservative emporium that very much appealed to "old" Richmond, while Thalhimers was hip and with it - very New York.

That's how I remember it. I think that's why M&R was able to expand across the state sooner than Thalhimers was. People in the smaller cities didn't "get" Thalhimers as easily, though they notably were in Danville for decades.

[burt]

That's how I remember it. I think that's why M&R was able to expand across the state sooner than Thalhimers was. People in the smaller cities didn't "get" Thalhimers as easily, though they notably were in Danville for decades.

Was Danville Thalhimer's first expansion in the state, Steve?

Did either (or both) expand into Tidewater?

[tombarnes]

I seem to recall both a Thalhimer's and a Miller & Rhoads at Coliseum Mall in Hampton.

[wrldcoupe4]

thought I'd post the city's press release on the project:

Downtown Hilton Hotel to Proceed With New Development Agreement

Richmond Mayor L. Douglas Wilder today announced a major agreement providing for the development of a 240-room Hilton Hotel at 5th and Broad Streets in Downtown. The planned $80 million project, which entails the redevelopment of the former Miller & Rhoads department store, also includes a 110-unit condominium complex.

[urbanvb]

So will the total be 350 rooms with the condos or 240?

[wrldcoupe4]

240 room hotel with 110 condos according to the press release, though the developer has said that it would have 130-140 condos on top of the 240 hotel rooms...

[urbanvb]

240 room hotel with 110 condos according to the press release, though the developer has said that it would have 130-140 condos on top of the 240 hotel rooms...

That's one big development then. Way to go!

[wrldcoupe4]

Sure is! If it was a new building....it would be a good sized high-rise. However, I like the reuse of this historic Richmond building.

It'll be interesting to see how they construct the large atriums within the building too!

[StevenRocks]

Was Danville Thalhimer's first expansion in the state, Steve?

Did either (or both) expand into Tidewater?

Danville was Thalhimers first expansion in Virginia. I think they took over "The Broadway" department store back in the '50s. Thalhimers had three stores there at one point. Downtown, Nor-Dan and Riverside. Nor-Dan closed in the early '80s, and the other two stores closed in the late '80s.

I don't think they hit Tidewater until the '70s, but there were several stores there at one point. They came to Lynchurg in 1980 and Roanoke in 1985.

Thalhimers also took over Ellis-Stone in Durham and Greensboro and another store in Winston-Salem in the '30s or '40s. Those stores were the seeds for their North Carolina expansion.

I seem to recall both a Thalhimer's and a Miller & Rhoads at Coliseum Mall in Hampton.

Miller & Rhoads was at Newmarket North in Hampton. AFAIK, they were never at Coliseum Mall.