hhgregg in Sparkle City

[Spartan]

hhgregg just opened up in Greenville, and we just learned that Columbia is getting 2 stores. Do you think we might see one here in Sparkle City?

My thought is that the Eastside would be a great location for one, being that there is no electronics store there as it is.

[hub-city]

Eastside would be about the only choice. I just don't think the market is big enough on the Westside to compete with Best Buy and Circuit City. Tweeter found that out.

[Spartan]

Good point. Tweeter was in a bad location IMO. Reidville Rd may have been a better choise, or maybe where the old lowes is. Closer to their target market, which based on their prices would be the wealthier citizens.

[GSP Tiger]

I'm sure hhgregg has given a look at Spartanburg already. If they build in a very good location and do great business, it will succeed.

[willum]

hhgregg moving into spartanburg would be one more mistake. and i would fight it until they hit me with a dozer

[hub-city]

hhgregg moving into spartanburg would be one more mistake. and i would fight it until they hit me with a dozer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great statement, but you didn't mention why you would fight them. Is it because of market, or do you not like the chain? Just curious. Never been to one.

[Spartan]

Welcome to the forum willum! I have to agree though. Why would you oppose it? We need an electronics/appliance store on the eastside badly.

[willum]

sorry for not explaining myself. in case you haven't noticed, walmart has hurt this sector enough. hhgregg would only take away possible electronics stores from building downtown. i'd love to see our downtown build up, but it never will if we keep allowing big boxes such as hhgregg to move in.

another reason is the traffic. i've lived on the eastside my whole life, and the thought of traffic on my side of town worsening will not win my support. e main will not become another woodruff rd if i can help it.

i'm sure hhgregg carries nice electronics. i'm not even sure what they carry, but if my tax dollars go to another intersection/redlight/turn lane/parking lot that i dont support and in fact despise, then my tax dollars deserve to be somewhere better

[Spartan]

Fair enough. I doubt we will see an electronics store downtown.

For the time being Spartanburg needs to focus on a nodal style of development. Instead of everyone having to drive to the westside for all shopping, develop smaller shopping centers around the city, so that people will not have to drive as far to get what they need.

Hillcrest is one example. Having an electronics store that is not Walmart is one step in the right direction, even if it is not the desired end result. This will essentially eleminate any reason for people to have to go to the westside except the mall, which we do not want again in Hillcrest. It also completes the duplication of products that walmart offers.

As someone who also lives and shops on the eastside, I enjoy not having to make the big trip to the westside to get something simple.

Other areas like Cedar Springs and Boiling Springs, and maybe to an extent the Pinewood area, and of course downtown could become other shopping nodes, Particularly as more dense developments come to the area.

I believe that keeping the distance people travel for shopping down can encourage people to be in favor of more neighborhood friendly/pedestrian friendly development, which in turn would lead to a more urban style of development.

What do you think?

[willum]

I believe that keeping the distance people travel for shopping down can encourage people to be in favor of more neighborhood friendly/pedestrian friendly development, which in turn would lead to a more urban style of development.

What do you think?

it's reasonable, but unfortunately contradictory to the way it always works out. the shopping centers end up taking years to develop, and end up delaying downtown development. they also give shoppers LESS reasons to go downtown. The cities with the best downtown districts and most appealing skylines have built around the downtown, the eastside/westsides emerged only after the center was developed.

unfortunately thats not what we have in sptbg, although we're trying and desperately want it. i'm like you, i would rather not have to go to the west side for stuff. sometimes its ok, but downtown is less than 10mins away from me. the west side is almost 20. but anyone on the east or west side can easily get downtown within 15 mins easy.

plus, a downtown adds community atmosphere. i know you all know this. but have u experienced it? When i lived in germany it was amazing how the downtown was everything. there were tons more ppl in one area, yet it was not NEAR the traffic (small amt due to mass transit) because of the same reason there's tons of businesses in downtown gville but the traffic is not bad. even at lunch time. drive on the eastside at lunch time, its crazy. beause everything is on one rd. and if shopping centers pop up, they wont be crazy enough to pop up anywhere besides e main. that means more traffic.

i was in love with the downtown experience in germany. i would love to recreate it here in sptbg. but it means that we have to understand that our town has to ahve a center in order for it to succeed. as of now, we dont. if u want something, u dont think "oh lets go downtown" but u should. when u shop in downtown gville, ur money goes back into gville. when u shop downtown sptbg, same thing but its very little money. most of us do our shopping on the east/west side, and our money goes back to those chains which arent in sptbg. it hurts our economy. thats the reason gville has an average income about $10,000 higher than sptbg. yet sptbg is the fastest growing area in the state, 3 places higher than gville.

if we center our city/county around the downtown, everyone on the east or west sides can easily reach it. fact is, shopping centers actually discourage pedestrian development. in a small way they lead to higher gas prices. the downtown should be the center of our development and concentration, NOT the east or west side. we should join in the middle.

what do u think?

[willum]

think about why the city of washington dc was made round...

[Spartan]

interesting comments to be sure. I will have to get back with you on this, as it is very late.

[Spartan]

At this point, Spartanburg is not ready to have downtown be a shopping destination. I have no doubt in my mind that one day in the future we will see every store you could want downtown, with no need at all to go out to the suburbs to get things, but as it stands, we have to make the best of things.

Most of Spartanburg exists as a suburb of somesort. From Hillbrook to Westview, its all there. And we can't just force people out of the suburban set up. We have to gradually change things to a more urban setting, which is a generally new idea to more Spartans." Downtown as a place to so somthing other than business? What!? You can live there too?" I believe that encouraging nodal development and decreasing the mount of driving people have to do will be a step in the right direction, even if it is not the desired result in the long haul.

Also, I dont think anyone actually thinks "hey lets go shopping in downtown Greenville." Usually if they go there, at least from from Spartanburg, its to eat or drink. I for one went downtown at least twice a week (sometimes more) for entertainment purposes until I moved out here.

[willum]

i'll be in central tomorrow actually would be nice to chat... but i see what you're saying, although I don't know if you realize how easily the downtown could be built. I'll post more tomorrow as it's late....

[roads-scholar]

Downtown as a shopping destination? Yes it will happen but it will be years before the mind set of consumers and retailers begins to change. I think, however, that the new pedestrian friendly Morgan Square and the new parking decks will be a start in the right direction.

[willum]

quick response between classes to give you something to think about.

Imagine a developer spending millions of dollars downtown. Instead of building a new shoppping center, they build a more traffic-efficient shopper friendly area downtown, that adds to the towns flavor and personality, community-ness, boasts wages and taxes, and makes your city a destination for travelers.

But why not? Because they'd rather build cheap, generic, mundane shopping centers which are not pedestrian-friendly, statistically every shopping center the size of wal-mart's doubles traffic congestion, duplicates what every other town has meaning sptbg is not a sought-after destination meaning less tourists' taxes and less luster. they usually bring cheap wages and less taxes. plus, shopping centers are 3-5x less efficient per sq ft INCLUDING parking decks than their downtown counterparts. And the only reason is because you're telling the developers you want this.

Why did Greenville's downtown grow... because the citizens were motivated enough to tell their council they want a downtown. Few of us in spartanburg are. that's all it takes.

if traffic isnt reason enough, wouldnt you rather make $8.50 at a locally owned business with better quality products in a more convenient and nicer atmosphere downtown than $6 per hr at a chain outlet? prices are almost always the same or cheaper at locally-owned counterparts.

tell me a reason why to have more "shopping stores" on the east/west side than a downtown, and why you want the eastside to look like the westside or either to look like woodruff rd (if you've ever taken 20mins to go less than 1 mile on woodruff rd no exaggeration then u know what i'm talking about). please explain why you want our town to look like all the others. please tell me.

[roads-scholar]

Friend, I understand where you're coming from but it's going to take time. As a businessman I've learned the hard way that you make money where the people are comfortable and familiar with their surroundings. "If you build it they will come" is not always true! I know many people in Spartanburg and Greenville who have made a huge investment in those downtowns only to experience failure because the customers failed to support them.

I remember when downtown Greenville was a pretty dreary place. I don't recall any of the good citizens of Greenville bemoaning the implosion of the beautiful Woodside Building or seeing all the department stores leave Main Street in the 1970's. I also don't recall anyone other than former mayor Max Heller making any real noise about the shape of downtown back in those days.

Downtown Greenville's success has been gradual. In time I think you will see more and more retail there as well as in downtown Spartanburg.

And lest we not forget, America and Spartanburg and Greenville are still automobile oriented. Until that changes downtowns will continue to be primarily a dining and entertainment destination and the Woodruff Roads of the world will continue to be congested.

[Spartan]

I think that is acceptable. What I dislike is wasted space. If downtown can become half of what Greenville's is today, then I will be satisfied that it won't fall apart, and that someday further down the road we will be able to easily shift into something bigger and better.

[greenvilleguy]

Just talked to a friend who is a manager at HH Gregg in Greenville and he said that the Greenville opening was the largest in the company's history. There is a store slated to open in Anderson in the next couple of months and on in Spartanburg at the first of the year but a location has not yet been determined, or at least announced. Like it, or not, it's coming...

[Spartan]

Awsome, thanks for that bit of info

[willum]

i'm moving to asheville .......

[goodbye]

I think that is acceptable. What I dislike is wasted space. If downtown can become half of what Greenville's is today, then I will be satisfied that it won't fall apart, and that someday further down the road we will be able to easily shift into something bigger and better.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Spartanburg is much further along than Greenville was in the late '80s and very early '90s IMO. What Greenville had more of back then than Spartanburg has right now was more business traffic. But that is rapidly changing in downtown Spartanburg with so many new corporations and other businesses moving in within recent years. If the City Council could get together with a group of progressively-minded professionals and residents, I see no reason why Spartanburg can't become the envy of all small cities in the entire State and far beyond.

[Spartan]

i'm moving to asheville .......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to hear that. Why are you moving?

Spartanburg is much further along than Greenville was in the late '80s and very early '90s IMO.  What Greenville had more of back then than Spartanburg has right now was more business traffic.  But that is rapidly changing in downtown Spartanburg with so many new corporations and other businesses moving in within recent years.  If the City Council could get together with a group of progressively-minded professionals and residents, I see no reason why Spartanburg can't become the envy of all small cities in the entire State and far beyond.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree, with the exception of the corporations thing. Yes corporations bring recognition. We need a few more, or atleast get the ones we have to relocate downtown. The thing is that SC has one of the best small business climates in the nation, and I don't see why Spartanburg can't follow Greenville's example with this. Highrises for small businesses? That is genious.

I want Spartanburg to succeed, but I am not so blind with homerism to think we could ever catch up to the big 3 (Greenville, Columbia, Charleston). What I want is for people to recognize Spartanburg as a significant city in SC, and not lower than North Charleston or Rock Hill, which are lesser cities IMO. It is my impression that most people don't see it this way. If can prove the opposite then I would be glad to hear it

[willum]

Sorry to hear that. Why are you moving?

I'm not really.... i just think spartanburg is moving in the wrong direction. we're giving small business owners a hard enough time as it is, and thats the backbone of any community, especially though ours

[Spartan]

How are we moving in the wrong direction?