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Relient J

MSA Question

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I'm new to Middle Tennessee, having moved to Murfreesboro from Florida in March, so I hope no one will take offense at my asking the following question out of a lack of understanding: What cities/counties constitute Nashville's MSA? I ask because not too long ago I referred to Franklin as being a part of metro-Nashville on my blog. The result of that is that I got an IM from someone who has lived in the area a lot longer than I have who said something like, "Since when did Franklin become metro-Nashville?" For almost a year I lived in a town that's about forty miles northwest of Atlanta, Georgia, yet is still considered metro Atlanta, so it seemed logical to me that a city in a county adjacent to a big city like Nashville would be part of metro-Nashville. Was I totally and completely off base with that assumption?

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No you were not off base. They probably thought you meant Metro Nashville Davidson county which is its own entity, but Williamson county is included in Nashvilles' metropolitan statistical area along with I believe 12 other counties which I am not going to name because I'm lazy and I'm not completly sure of all of them. Hope that helps. :)

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tw hit it on the head. Since 1963 with the consolidation of city/county government, Nashville-Davidson has been known as Metro, a distinct entity. The MSA has to do with commuting patterns and has been expanded over recent years to include more counties. It's all one big blob nowadays anyway.

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Franklin is in Nashville's metro, but not Metro-Nashville.

Here are the counties in Nashville's MSA: Davidson (Nashville), Cheatham (Ashland City, Kingston Springs), Dickson (Dickson), Maury (Columbia), Montgomery (Clarksville), Robertson (Springfield), Ruthersford (Murfreesboro, La Vergne, Smyrna), Sumner (Gallatin, Hendersonville, Portland), Williamson (Franklin, Spring Hill, Fairview), Wilson (Lebanon, Mt. Juliet).

10 Total Counties.

By the way, this was 1997, but I don't think there were any changes.

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Oh yeah. Since 1997 there were some changes. This is the current 2004 list for the MSA.

  1. Cannon County

  2. Cheatham County

  3. Davidson County

  4. Dickson County

  5. Hickman County

  6. Macon County

  7. Robertson County

  8. Rutherford County

  9. Smith County

  10. Sumner County

  11. Trousdale County

  12. Williamson County

  13. Wilson County

The CSA adds Maury County.

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Trousdale - Hartsville

Smith - Carthage

Cannon - Woodbury

Those are VERY rural counties. Thus, lots of folks are increasingly forced to commute to Davidson and its surrounding counties to find work.

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And they wonder why Nashville can now claim to be larger than Memphis. If Memphis went that far out, they could count the population of Jonesboro and Oxford. I know some people would live in McMinn County that work in Rutherford, I quess that that will be next.

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And they wonder why Nashville can now claim to be larger than Memphis. If Memphis went that far out, they could count the population of Jonesboro and Oxford. I know some people would live in McMinn County that work in Rutherford, I quess that that will be next.

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That's defined by commuting patterns. If Memphis has the commuting patterns, it will see counties added. And some of the Nashville counties are not in its metro area, but in its CSA. Memphis is not consolidated with any other metropolitan or micropolitan area (which is the definition of a CSA). The population of the Memphis CSA is zero.

Since the Memphis metro is surrounded by adjacent micropolitan areas (Clarksdale MS, Oxford MS, Forrest City AR, Brownsville TN) and one metropolitan area (Jonesboro AR), I would imagine that the commuting patterns would expand, particularly in Oxford and Clarksdale, where I'm sure that people already commute to adjacent metro counties. Same for Forrest City. I have a cousin there who works in West Memphis. I also knew a teacher who lived in Oxford who taught in Holly Springs which is part of the Memphis metro. Doubt if Jonesboro will ever come into the mix though.

One thing about Memphis population patterns is that I think sprawl and decentralization came to Memphis relatively late. It was only 15 yr. ago that you could drive into Memphis on I-40 and it was virtually cotton fields until you hit the I-240 loop, then bam, you hit the city. Sprawl gets more counties into a metro area, when you have places like DeSoto and Tunica where people commute to from all over north Mississippi--and never come into Memphis.

So, in the next few years as Memphis decentralizes, I suspect that more counties particularly Oxford, Clarksdale, and Forrest City will be added.

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I have a question. In order for a county to become part of the MSA, do people have to commute to the city itself, or just to one of the counties already in the MSA?

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And they wonder why Nashville can now claim to be larger than Memphis. If Memphis went that far out, they could count the population of Jonesboro and Oxford. I know some people would live in McMinn County that work in Rutherford, I quess that that will be next.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't laugh. It could happen.

The Nashville-Davidson MSA is now officially the Nashville-Davidson/Murfreesboro MSA recognizing Murfreesboro's size, growth and impact in Middle Tennessee. Many people commute from Nashville to Murfreesboro daily. I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro now has daily traffic volumes of around 80,000.

And Middle Tennessee State (Murfy High) is now the largest University in the state by some accounts. Rutherford County should reach a quarter million population by 2010 if not soon after IMO. Murfreesboro will be approaching 100,000 by that date.

If there are serious commuting patterns from McMinn to Murfreesboro, then who knows? It could be included.

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That's defined by commuting patterns.  If Memphis has the commuting patterns, it will see counties added.  And some of the Nashville counties are not in its metro area, but in its CSA.  Memphis is not consolidated with any other metropolitan or micropolitan area (which is the definition of a CSA).  The population of the Memphis CSA is zero.

Since the Memphis metro is surrounded by adjacent micropolitan areas (Clarksdale MS, Oxford MS, Forrest City AR, Brownsville TN) and one metropolitan area (Jonesboro AR), I would imagine that the commuting patterns would expand, particularly in Oxford and Clarksdale, where I'm sure that people already commute to adjacent metro counties.  Same for Forrest City.  I have a cousin there who works in West Memphis.  I also knew a teacher who lived in Oxford who taught in Holly Springs which is part of the Memphis metro.  Doubt if Jonesboro will ever come into the mix though.

One thing about Memphis population patterns is that I think sprawl and decentralization came to Memphis relatively late.  It was only 15 yr. ago that you could drive into Memphis on I-40 and it was virtually cotton fields until you hit the I-240 loop, then bam, you hit the city.  Sprawl gets more counties into a metro area, when you have places like DeSoto and Tunica where people commute to from all over north Mississippi--and never come into Memphis.

So, in the next few years as Memphis decentralizes, I suspect that more counties particularly Oxford, Clarksdale, and Forrest City will be added.

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Sleepy, I know about how it is determined. I was just having some fun. I did not know that Nashville had gained some of the counties that they did following the last census. It is funny that Nashville's MSA has basically taken in all of Middle Tennessee. I can see Maury County because of Spring Hill, but Cannon County really throws me. That's why it's like Apples and Oranges to compare city populations. If you get some Northern cities, some have tiny areas and then you get some like San Bernadino/Riverside and their larger than the smallest 10 states. Nashville's would be larger than either Rhode Island or Delaware.

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Don't laugh. It could happen.

The Nashville-Davidson MSA is now officially the Nashville-Davidson/Murfreesboro MSA recognizing Murfreesboro's size, growth and impact in Middle Tennessee. Many people commute from Nashville to Murfreesboro daily. I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro now has daily traffic volumes of around 80,000.

And Middle Tennessee State (Murfy High) is now the largest University in the state by some accounts. Rutherford County should reach a quarter million population by 2010 if not soon after IMO. Murfreesboro will be approaching 100,000 by that date.

If there are serious commuting patterns from McMinn to Murfreesboro, then who knows? It could be included.

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Hey, my niece goes to Murfy High. Had never heard that one. I guess that it makes as much sense for Nashville as Tiger High does for Memphis. I do know that MTSU has been the biggest gainer from the scholarships from the lottery.

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The Nashville-Davidson MSA is now officially the Nashville-Davidson/Murfreesboro MSA recognizing Murfreesboro's size, growth and impact in Middle Tennessee. Many people commute from Nashville to Murfreesboro daily. I-24 between Nashville and Murfreesboro now has daily traffic volumes of around 80,000.

And Middle Tennessee State (Murfy High) is now the largest University in the state by some accounts. Rutherford County should reach a quarter million population by 2010 if not soon after IMO. Murfreesboro will be approaching 100,000 by that date.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that's great news for those of us who live in Murfreesboro. I've really enjoyed living here for the past few months, and am excited about some of the projects in planning and development going on around the city.

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Hey, my niece goes to Murfy High. Had never heard that one. I guess that it makes as much sense for Nashville as Tiger High does for Memphis. I do know that MTSU has been the biggest gainer from the scholarships from the lottery.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just having a little fun. My money and one of my daughters goes there. I myself am a graduate of another State school.

Let's go Peay!

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I believe Mboro is now MSA, but I don't know. Cannon? Hickman? Whatever the others were added? What's that represent, a full booth at Shoney's? Minimal impact. I have my own MSA, government be damed: Mine is Davidson, Wilson, Robertson, Sumner, Cheatham, Williamson, Rutherford...

But hey, if it means more bucks, bring 'em on. But please, let's not let this thread turn into anything resembling SSP. Other than the cold hard facts, those folks fight over MSAs and CSAs for months. Demographics, populations, etc. are extremely fascinating, but I'd hate to see us get into the insignificant details on how Farmer Coot's cow eats grass on land that was once touched by the wheels of a Greyhound who passed through City A on its way to City C, so now CityA's CSA and City B's get to claim the farmer and the cow."

I love numbers, don't get me wrong, but using numbers out in the boonies is for studies and funding. Those people in Cannon or wherever don't know or care they're in the Nashville CSA. I hate to see places inflate themselves so far beyond what's real. Quality over quantity anyone?

From my experience, this seems to be a southern forum obssession. I'm moving on to bricks and mortar now.

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I love numbers.

I think part of the Census' decision to come up with the concept of a CSA was to distinguish parts of an area's more realistic metro core (the msa) from more outlying counties (the csa).

Early on, a metro was just a city and its suburbs.

The old msa definitions from the 70's required a county to have at least 50,000 before it could be included as part of any msa. Then that got diluted down to just requiring a 15% commuting pattern to the central county. That got further watered down by requiring just a 15% commute to any other county in the metro.

Eventually that ends up like squirting an eyedropper of dye in a swimming pool. The dye spreads evenly everywhere and you end up with msa's like Minneapolis-St. Paul which stretches a good 150 miles--from St. Cloud in central Minnesota down to within 25 miles of Iowa in the south--Yikes! only 10 miles from my house! It's not like St. Cloud--2 1/2 hrs. away--is the next burb over. lol Between here and there is mostly cornfields, lakes, the occasional bear, wolf, and moose, and the bypass around Minneapolis.

So the census broke that sort of thing up into msa's and more loosely associated csa's.

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That's how Maury county got into the MSA. Very few people commute to Nashville, but many in Spring Hill commute to Franklin and Brentwood. It's ridiculous how it works.

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Hear's another MSA question. Can someone give me a good explanation on why Clarksville is not considered a part of the Nashville MSA?

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Hear's another MSA question. Can someone give me a good explanation on why Clarksville is not considered a part of the Nashville MSA?

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Same reason any county is or isn't included in an area's msa. It either does or doesn't fit the commuting requirement of 15%.

But seeing as Clarksville is its own msa, it would only be included as part of some Nashville-Clarksville CSA.

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Same reason any county is or isn't included in an area's msa.  It either does or doesn't fit the commuting requirement of 15%.

But seeing as Clarksville is its own msa, it would only be included as part of some Nashville-Clarksville CSA.

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I would imagine that if current growth rates keep pace in Cheatham and Robertson counties that Clarksville-Hopkinsville could join the Nashville-Columbia CSA within 15 years. New subdivisions in Cheatham county already proclaim their short commutes to downtown Clarksville and Nashville.

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Just having a little fun. My money and one of my daughters goes there. I myself am a graduate of another State school.

Let's go Peay!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

PH, That has always been one of the classic cheers of all time.

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