MSA Question

[TennBear]

When did these additional counties get added to the Nashville MSA? I went to the US Census Page and got informtion on the counties mentioned, but on the new one's it said under MSA None. I will say that I only saw 2000 census figures and I know that there are projections that are available, so this is probibly old data.

County Population Square Miles Pop/Sq Mi

Cannon 13,204 266 48.3

Cheatham 37,364 303 118.7

Davidson 569,842 502 1,134.6

Dickson 44,935 490 88.1

Hickman 23,352 613 36.4

Macon 20,386 430 47.4

Maury 73,198 613 113.4

Robertson 58,181 476 114.2

Rutherford 202,310 619 294.1

Smith 18,225 314 56.3

Sumner 138,752 529 246.5

Trousdale 7,447 114 63.5

Williamson 141,301 583 217.3

Wilson 95,366 571 155.6

1,443,863 6,423

Rhode Island 1,545 sq miles

Delaware 1,953 sq miles

Connecticut 4,845 sq miles

Hawaii 6,423 sq miles

Memphis MSA is 2303 sq miles

This is just for comparison. It shows how poplation figures can be apples and oranges.

[rocket9561]

When did these additional counties get added to the Nashville MSA? I went to the US Census Page and got informtion on the counties mentioned, but on the new one's it said under MSA None. I will say that I only saw 2000 census figures and I know that there are projections that are available, so this is probibly old data.

County  Population  Square Miles Pop/Sq Mi

Cannon      13,204              266        48.3

Cheatham  37,364              303        118.7

Davidson  569,842              502    1,134.6

Dickson      44,935              490        88.1

Hickman      23,352              613        36.4

Macon        20,386              430        47.4

Maury        73,198              613        113.4

Robertson  58,181              476        114.2

Rutherford 202,310              619        294.1

Smith          18,225              314        56.3

Sumner    138,752              529        246.5

Trousdale      7,447              114        63.5

Williamson 141,301              583        217.3

Wilson        95,366              571        155.6

              1,443,863            6,423     

Rhode Island 1,545 sq miles

Delaware 1,953 sq miles

Connecticut 4,845 sq miles

Hawaii 6,423 sq miles

Memphis MSA is 2303 sq miles

This is just for comparison. It shows how poplation figures can be apples and oranges.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It isn't really apples and oranges though...there are requirements for being part of an MSA. Nashville's is larger because it pulls from great distances.

[TennBear]

It isn't really apples and oranges though...there are requirements for being part of an MSA.  Nashville's is larger because it pulls from great distances.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The question could be made is it Nashville or is it the circle of cities that are drawing to them. I do not question that Nashville draws from a larger sphere than Memphis. Murfreesboro is a large engine and so is Spring Hill. I understand the 15% commuting to the center city, but the 15% cummuting to satellite cities that may not have anything to do with the central city seems to be a stretch. Here is what I mean for arguement only, for Wilson County Mt Juliet creates enough commuters to count Wilson County to be part of the Nashville MSA. Lebanon may have an entirely separate economy that can draw from Smith County or Trousdale County and that is their economic center; or Murfreesboro drawing from Cannon, DeKalb, Warren, Bedford, and Coffee. When does it reach a point where it is a separate metro area and when does the MSA not make sense as far as a viable economic area? Rutherford is a major job producer in it's own right. After all, Cleveland TN, Bradley County is its own area and not part of Chattanooga. I'm certain that there is a fair amount of cross county commuting to say Ooltewah or Collegedale to make 'Little Debby's'. Stirring the pot a little.

[GaTechGuy]

I may be mistaken but from what I understand the MSA still requires that a certain dependence on the core population center be maintained. Its the CSA that allows for the further out counties and cities that depend on other areas besides the core to be counted.

The CSA definition was just created to give a broader picture of an urban area. Some cities literally die right outside their limits where as others are surrounded by a healthy amount of density.

[northernbizzkit1]

And they wonder why Nashville can now claim to be larger than Memphis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, I don't think anyone in Memphis denies the fact that Nashville has a larger MSA, but if you compare Nashville-Metro to Memphis the City, you still have it where Memphis is the larger of the two. Should Willie Herenton get his ways with a combined city/county government in Memphis, we'll see Memphis-Metro with the "city" population at one million as opposed to Nashville-Metro's 546,000 people.

[sleepy]

Should Willie Herenton get his ways with a combined city/county government in Memphis, we'll see Memphis-Metro with the "city" population at one million as opposed to Nashville-Metro's 546,000 people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Memphis/Shelby consolidation?

Yeah, well, if pigs could fly. lol

Just giving you a hard time. Sorry.

[Justiceham]

I'm new to Middle Tennessee, having moved to Murfreesboro from Florida in March, so I hope no one will take offense at my asking the following question out of a lack of understanding: What cities/counties constitute Nashville's MSA? I ask because not too long ago I referred to Franklin as being a part of metro-Nashville on my blog. The result of that is that I got an IM from someone who has lived in the area a lot longer than I have who said something like, "Since when did Franklin become metro-Nashville?" For almost a year I lived in a town that's about forty miles northwest of Atlanta, Georgia, yet is still considered metro Atlanta, so it seemed logical to me that a city in a county adjacent to a big city like Nashville would be part of metro-Nashville. Was I totally and completely off base with that assumption?

The correct metropolitan classification for Nashville is the Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro Metropolitan Statistical Area. However, there are a host of other counties that make up the fine print other than Davidson and Rutherford. There are a total of 13 counties including Cannon, Cheatham, Davidson, Dickson, Hickman, Macon, Robertson, Rutherford, Smith, Sumner, Trousdale, Williamson, and Wilson counties.

[Justiceham]

Hear's another MSA question. Can someone give me a good explanation on why Clarksville is not considered a part of the Nashville MSA?

This is debatable, but Clarksville is counted in the Hopkinsville/Fort Campbell Kentucky area and I guess it is also far enough away to be separate. Then one asks, why don't they have their own tv stations (news)? Really can't explain that one.

[nashvol85]

Memphis MSA is 2303 sq miles

No...

Shelby, TN - 755

Marshall, MS - 706

Fayette, TN - 704

Crittenden, AR - 610

DeSoto, MS - 478

Tipton, TN - 459

Tunica, MS - 455

Tate, MS - 404

Way off...that adds up to 4,571.

I knew something was off, because with those figures Memphis's metro would be only 36% of the size of Nashville's...where is it is actually 71% of the total land area.

[brownhound]

If you were to take a land area the same size as Shelby County and position it in the Nashville metro vacinity--with Nashville in place of Memphis and the Franklin-to-Murfreesboro area in place of Collierville--my bet is that the "new" Davidson County would be the same population as Shelby is now. You must remember that downtown Nashville is only 10-12 miles from the southern country line, whereas downtown Memphis is fifty miles from the country line.

[sleepy]

If you were to take a land area the same size as Shelby County and position it in the Nashville metro vacinity--with Nashville in place of Memphis and the Franklin-to-Murfreesboro area in place of Collierville--my bet is that the "new" Davidson County would be the same population as Shelby is now. You must remember that downtown Nashville is only 10-12 miles from the southern country line, whereas downtown Memphis is fifty miles from the country line.

Downtown Memphis is about 26 miles from the Fayette County line. The combined population of Davidson, Williamson, and Rutherford is 946,000 in 1704 sq. miles The population of Shelby is 909,000 in 755 sq. miles.

[nashvol85]

Downtown Memphis is about 26 miles from the Fayette County line. The combined population of Davidson, Williamson, and Rutherford is 946,000 in 1704 sq. miles The population of Shelby is 909,000 in 755 sq. miles.

I think he was saying that if you got the "meat" of the Nashville population, from just to the west of Nashville, down to just below Franklin, across to Murfreesboro, and up to say, Mount Juliet, and across Madison, then you would have an area of probably about the same size and about 750 or 800,000 people. I don't think he was saying that you would include the entire counties of Williamson and Rutherford (both very big counties).

I'm trying to make a map overlay right now, but I'm having some trouble getting a good map that I can save and show y'all later.

[brownhound]

Nashvol--that's exactly what I was saying. Western Williamson County and Southern Rutherford County are much like Northwestern Davidson County--there are very few people living in those regions.

[sleepy]

I think he was saying that if you got the "meat" of the Nashville population, from just to the west of Nashville, down to just below Franklin, across to Murfreesboro, and up to say, Mount Juliet, and across Madison, then you would have an area of probably about the same size and about 750 or 800,000 people. I don't think he was saying that you would include the entire counties of Williamson and Rutherford (both very big counties).

I'm trying to make a map overlay right now, but I'm having some trouble getting a good map that I can save and show y'all later.

My point was that even if you included the entirety of those three counties, you would have only 37,000 more people in 950 more square miles. The Nashville area is just spread out more.

[nashvol85]

My point was that even if you included the entirety of those three counties, you would have only 37,000 more people in 950 more square miles. The Nashville area is just spread out more.

Very true, but if you consider that Memphis is flat with very few natural barriers, and it is in a county that has more than 225 square miles greater land area, then it will be able to hold more people in the central area of the city. Nashville could probably have 905,000 people in Davidson County, but because of the hills and lakes the rest would have to be as dense as a northeastern city!

I think when most people make the "if Davidson county was bigger" argument, they are saying that if Davidson county was as large as Shelby county was, then there would be more big suburbs inside the county like Memphis's Bartlett, Germantown, and Collierville. Memphis just has the benefit of having its county cover almost the entire core population and urbanized area.

[Justiceham]

The question could be made is it Nashville or is it the circle of cities that are drawing to them. I do not question that Nashville draws from a larger sphere than Memphis. Murfreesboro is a large engine and so is Spring Hill. I understand the 15% commuting to the center city, but the 15% cummuting to satellite cities that may not have anything to do with the central city seems to be a stretch. Here is what I mean for arguement only, for Wilson County Mt Juliet creates enough commuters to count Wilson County to be part of the Nashville MSA. Lebanon may have an entirely separate economy that can draw from Smith County or Trousdale County and that is their economic center; or Murfreesboro drawing from Cannon, DeKalb, Warren, Bedford, and Coffee. When does it reach a point where it is a separate metro area and when does the MSA not make sense as far as a viable economic area? Rutherford is a major job producer in it's own right. After all, Cleveland TN, Bradley County is its own area and not part of Chattanooga. I'm certain that there is a fair amount of cross county commuting to say Ooltewah or Collegedale to make 'Little Debby's'. Stirring the pot a little.

Murfreesboro has attempted to study a metropolitan form of government, twice. Both times the committee came to the conclusion that it would hurt the economy and not help it.

[fieldmarshaldj]

Murfreesboro has attempted to study a metropolitan form of government, twice. Both times the committee came to the conclusion that it would hurt the economy and not help it.

Given that Smyrna and LaVergne are distinctive communities of roughly 60,000 people combined, it's understandable why they'd prefer to remain independent of a metro government. As for Murfreesboro, their best bet is to simply annex all the way to the county lines everything that the aformentioned 2 towns (and Eagleville, the only other incorporated town in R'ford County) haven't grabbed, yet.