Greensboro Urban Loop (Painter Boulevard)

[Atlside]

How has the new Greensboro Urban Loop impacted development in the Greensboro/Winston-Salem/High Point region?

Has his new loop by sending I-85 traffic off of the I-40 eastside corridor reduced the traffic on I-40's eastside now this it is a stand alone interstate corridor?

Have land developers gone crazy as they have along Charlotte's I-485 Outerbelt and Raleigh's Outer Loop I-540/future I-640?

How does the Greensboro Urban Loop impact Forsyth County and the northside of Guilford County in terms of where the future corridor will run.

The Greensboro Beltway

[sax184]

It's a colossal waste of money.

[davidals]

These beltways don't do what they are theoretically supposed to - act as bypasses, and the road/freeway plan in the Triad in particular seems really excessive.

The Greensboro loop is interesting - the Charlotte and Raleigh loops are much farther out from the core of the cities, which has had the effect of accelerating sprawl out from the city. Greensboro's loop is much, much farther in, and mostly runs through already developed areas, so I wonder how different the effect will be in Greensboro. It looks like they are building a road that will be very obsolete from day one, and given the maze of other freeways planned there, I'd bet that's a shared, if unspoken sentiment.

At this point it's crying over spilt milk to groan about what the loops (Fayetteville, Gastonia, Greenville, Wilmington, Winston-Salem are all getting them as well) will do - opening up a land-rush to sprawl-ify undeveloped areas. Exits could have been restricted, but city councils and county commissions keep caving in on this; so I guess anyone on those roads who gripes about traffic and bad air is getting what they asked for, or what they voted for. We'll see in Greensboro - given the surge of cookie-cutter sprawl up 85 towards Burlington, I'd say the future doesn't look good.

[roningreensboro]

In my opinion, all this will do is pull the downtown revitalization away from downtown to these cookie cutter developments that will go up. This loop will reduce traffic in areas but what about Wendover Ave. where exits are planned. Now that will be a mess as people get of the loop to go home, shop, eat, etc. on Wendover. That's what Im afraid about.

[nowensone]

I also don't think GSO's loop is a great idea or good use of public money, though as pointed out it is mostly going through areas that are already developed, so is not going to cause a lot of new sprawl like many "greenfield" loops do. Because of the curving and almost random layout of GSO's road system, the loop is going to be a good thing for people in Northwest parts of the city. My mother has lived off of Battleground/Old Battleground for years and it takes 20 minutes just to get to 85, and only slightly less time to 40, so will be great for her as a resident.

[suburban george3]

I think this will do nothing beneficial for the city of Greensboro. Loops are notorious for promoting sprawl and just extricating traffic to the suburbs. They are NOT bypasses of the cities they serve after the devlopers fill in the available land. Maybe Greensboro can control this thru planning and zoning.... yeah, right.

I hope that somehow the only part of the beltway in Winston-Salem that gets built is the NE leg to alleviate traffic of US 52.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

It amazes me that the GSO/Triad media give very little coverage to the Beltway construction, whereas CLT and RDU media are continuously talking about the impact and construction of their loops.

[DigitalSky]

It amazes me that the GSO/Triad media give very little coverage to the Beltway construction, whereas CLT and RDU media are continuously talking about the impact and construction of their loops.

It is truly amazing. It's hardly mentioned here in the Triad...then in Clt you hear "485 this" and "485 that" and with raleigh 540 etc.

[roningreensboro]

It is truly amazing. It's hardly mentioned here in the Triad...then in Clt you hear "485 this" and "485 that" and with raleigh 540 etc.

The only time you hear about any construction in GSO or the Triad is when the budget is being discussed and where money should go.

[sax184]

It amazes me that the GSO/Triad media give very little coverage to the Beltway construction, whereas CLT and RDU media are continuously talking about the impact and construction of their loops.

That's because there's no significant traffic congestion in the Greensboro area that the loop will relieve. Nobody ever voted on this loop, either. This was a fiat made by the legislature back in the 80's that a bunch of major nc cities were getting urban loops. It's been a fantastically bad policy which has gutted our downtowns and turned the countryside into a sea of crap. It's funny to see Greensboro keep saying "how can we improve our downtown" and one of the biggest answers is "stop building the stupid loop!"

[cityboi]

That's because there's no significant traffic congestion in the Greensboro area that the loop will relieve. Nobody ever voted on this loop, either. This was a fiat made by the legislature back in the 80's that a bunch of major nc cities were getting urban loops. It's been a fantastically bad policy which has gutted our downtowns and turned the countryside into a sea of crap. It's funny to see Greensboro keep saying "how can we improve our downtown" and one of the biggest answers is "stop building the stupid loop!"

The loop helps relieve traffic throughout the city. Commuters no longer have to rely on using congested roads such as Wendover Ave and others to get through the city. So there are great benefits to having the beltwa around Greensboro.

[jasoniman24]

We may not need a full loop around the city, but I feel that the southern part was needed. It is much safer than the outdated "death valley" stretch. I hope the loop east of Elm-Eugene street stays devoid of the cookie-cutter housing developments, and strip malls, it's nice to see the rural scenery in that area.

[blburton]

I think the Hwy 29 on the east, then south to the current I-85 bypass, west, then north to Battleground where constuction is currently underway is needed. I dont know about the northern stretch from Battleground to Hwy 29. In the end, the loop is appropriate because Greensboro is poised to grow and has been. Gridlock throughout Death Valley was a constant in the early and late 1990s. Just think about how bad it would be today considering the explosive growth in eastern Guilford/western Alamance Counties. Some residents on Wake County still waiting on I-540 to help traffic may not see relief in their lifetime if the toll roads arent approved. I think end the end, Greensboro will appreciate the beltway despite the fact that that now certain people think it's useless.

[crowe1856]

I think it's interesting to hear people talk about how the loop will promote sprawl- that's all Greensboro is, already! The loop is just a drop in the bucket, and is arguably necessary to counteract the remarkably poor transit infrastructure that has resulted from GSO's terribly planned growth. I also find it hard to believe that the loop will detriment downtown any more than the current interstates- it's not exactly like I-40 or I-85 offer quick access, or even a glimpse of downtown. As it is, you can drive right by Greensboro and not realize it's anything other than big-box retail & abandoned manufacturing.

[nowensone]

We may not need a full loop around the city, but I feel that the southern part was needed. It is much safer than the outdated "death valley" stretch. I hope the loop east of Elm-Eugene street stays devoid of the cookie-cutter housing developments, and strip malls, it's nice to see the rural scenery in that area.

Hmmm, in disagreement there, the southern portion seems wasteful since I40 and I85 are in the southern fringes of Greensboro already and so the loop is only a mile or two away from these and wasteful in terms of both redundancy and in making large swaths of land undevelopable due to some of the odd interchanges. Northern and northwestern GSO are, on the other hand, far from the interstates, and even the city freeways (Benjamin & Bryan Blvds.) are meandering and not direct, and Wendover does not serve them either. I wouldn't think the southern portion of the loop to be all that helpful to High point residents either since it doesn't quite dip far enough south.

[cityboi]

The north portion of the loop is also helpful because its makes it easier for people in north and northeast Greensboro to get to the airport. Its also easier for rockingham county residents to get to the airport. Its also easier access to I-85 eastbound for north Grensboro residents.

[blburton]

Actually the southern portion (I-85 bypass) has provided MAJOR RELIEF to the outdated Death Valley region. Traffic backed up regularly between 4 Seasons and Lee Street (and beyond sometimes) prior to its completion.

Also, Benjamin Parkway, Holden Road, and Cone Boulevard actually form a half loop around the center of Greensboro beginning in the northeast at Hwy 29 and the new Wal-Mart and ending at the old I-85/Holden Rd interchange. I think that Bryan Boulevard (via Benjamin) provides excellent access to the airport and the New Garden area especially from downtown and points east. I guess I don't know what you mean by those freeways being meandering and indirect? Is there any freeway that isn't? Before the completion of Bryan Blvd, it was Market St or I-40/85 through Death Valley, to I-40, up 68, then onto Airport Pkwy or whatever Bryan Blvd used to be named. That was a pain!!

Greensboro has several east-west thoroughfares that go through or near downtown, but it seems like the north-south thoroughfares converge at or near downtown, so mobility is limited in that aspect. That's what I forsee the loop relieving.

Hmmm, in disagreement there, the southern portion seems wasteful since I40 and I85 are in the southern fringes of Greensboro already and so the loop is only a mile or two away from these and wasteful in terms of both redundancy and in making large swaths of land undevelopable due to some of the odd interchanges. Northern and northwestern GSO are, on the other hand, far from the interstates, and even the city freeways (Benjamin & Bryan Blvds.) are meandering and not direct, and Wendover does not serve them either. I wouldn't think the southern portion of the loop to be all that helpful to High point residents either since it doesn't quite dip far enough south.

[cityboi]

I actually see Bryan Blvd as a highway link between downtown and the airport. The loop would serve people who live further north and northeast. As it is you have to go through a number of stoplights and traffic zones just to get to Bryan Blvd if you are a northeast Greensboro resident because Bryan blvd doesnt compleletly go through the city. It turns into Benjamen Pkwy once you get near Friendly Center. I-840 would mean straight freeway access to the airport area cutting down travel time and reducing traffic on corridors such as Wendover Ave and Cone Blvd. The more jobs we attract to the airport area, the more people will commute to the airport area. There is a residential boom happening in Northeast Greensboro with Reedy Creek and we dont want to add to the traffic thats on Wendover Ave or Cone Blvd.

[Creasy336]

I feel that the 'death valley' should have been reconstructed. This especially made sense one I-40 was widened to 6-8 lanes a few years back. A whole new loop from just south of the Airport to Mt Hope Church because of a 3-4 mile segement no one wanted to fix. You could take it further and say that if they would have made a connection from I-85s/I-40w to US 29n/US 70e and US 29s/US 70w to I-85n/I-40e that would have eliminated alot of the need for a loop between US 29 to I-85/40

[nowensone]

Actually the southern portion (I-85 bypass) has provided MAJOR RELIEF to the outdated Death Valley region. Traffic backed up regularly between 4 Seasons and Lee Street (and beyond sometimes) prior to its completion.

Also, Benjamin Parkway, Holden Road, and Cone Boulevard actually form a half loop around the center of Greensboro beginning in the northeast at Hwy 29 and the new Wal-Mart and ending at the old I-85/Holden Rd interchange. I think that Bryan Boulevard (via Benjamin) provides excellent access to the airport and the New Garden area especially from downtown and points east. I guess I don't know what you mean by those freeways being meandering and indirect? Is there any freeway that isn't? Before the completion of Bryan Blvd, it was Market St or I-40/85 through Death Valley, to I-40, up 68, then onto Airport Pkwy or whatever Bryan Blvd used to be named. That was a pain!!

Greensboro has several east-west thoroughfares that go through or near downtown, but it seems like the north-south thoroughfares converge at or near downtown, so mobility is limited in that aspect. That's what I forsee the loop relieving.

I'll concede relief of Death Valley, but doesn't really change the fact it is wasteful, IMO, and should have expanded farther south. Benjamin and Bryan Pkwy's are primarily a route from downtown to the airport, and doesn't do much else, and it's traffic lights are hardly helpful. Cone and Holden form part of a loop? In that case any city streets in any city form many loops, I don't consider that relevant as they are basically just city roads. The map posted in the OP is misleading, it gives the appearance of some internal freeway system when that is not the case.

To get from N/NW Greensboro to the other end of town is a nonnutritive and nondirect process of back roads to Bryan [briefly] then to Holden to 85, and takes a long time, there are other destinations not well served because of the meandering nature of GSO's roads. There is a lack of connector freeways. The NW'ern part of the beltway when finished will not act as an artery like a spoke system would, however it will afford much quicker access to 85, 40 and points south better than the current methods.

I prefer and missed the confusing and meandering nature of GSO roads while living in gridded areas outside of NC, but they are not efficient for movement/transport, especially GSO's. Of all the places I've personally had to navigate, it is the worse. Trying to think of another similarly routed place and all I come up with is neighboring CLT...

[Bosox28]

anyone going from N greensboro to points west of the city will be GREATLY relieved once the loop is done. It takes me 20 minutes just to get from where I live (elm/lake jeanette area) to bryan blvd...and I still have to get to Kernersville

[ezcheese]

Because of the curving and almost random layout of GSO's road system, the loop is going to be a good thing for people in Northwest parts of the city. My mother has lived off of Battleground/Old Battleground for years and it takes 20 minutes just to get to 85, and only slightly less time to 40, so will be great for her as a resident.

this is the reason i was looking forward to the loop. i live near the corner of battleground and westridge and i drive to burlington every day during the week and to charlotte on most weekends. too bad i won't still be living in this area by the time the loop is done. :/

[roningreensboro]

I think it's interesting to hear people talk about how the loop will promote sprawl- that's all Greensboro is, already! The loop is just a drop in the bucket, and is arguably necessary to counteract the remarkably poor transit infrastructure that has resulted from GSO's terribly planned growth. I also find it hard to believe that the loop will detriment downtown any more than the current interstates- it's not exactly like I-40 or I-85 offer quick access, or even a glimpse of downtown. As it is, you can drive right by Greensboro and not realize it's anything other than big-box retail & abandoned manufacturing.

Well that's GSO's problem right now. Look at any major city or city in general, major interstates run right beside the downtown. I77 - Charlotte, Bus85 - Winston, I64 - Raliegh, I95 - Chicago, etc. Since no one decided to run I85,40 by GSO the only solution in my eye to put GSO on the map is to build high skyscrappers than a loop to catch the eyes of passer bys. Once the Buisness district is improved this way people will move in and then a loop will be the best alternative. So I agree crowe1856, I wish GSO would learn from Charlotte and just bring in buisness to the downtown.

[JerseyBoy]

Well that's GSO's problem right now. Look at any major city or city in general, major interstates run right beside the downtown. I77 - Charlotte, Bus85 - Winston, I64 - Raliegh, I95 - Chicago, etc. Since no one decided to run I85,40 by GSO the only solution in my eye to put GSO on the map is to build high skyscrappers than a loop to catch the eyes of passer bys. Once the Buisness district is improved this way people will move in and then a loop will be the best alternative. So I agree crowe1856, I wish GSO would learn from Charlotte and just bring in buisness to the downtown.

I think you may have some of your interstates wrong for certain cities.

[gso27]

I think the loop will be good for Greensboro overall. It will make it much easier for people in the most densely populated areas in the north to get around. Some sprawl will probally result in the far east and south, but the city is not as sprawled as most NC/Southern cities because Greensboro is rather densely populated.

Downtown will continue to prosper dispite the loop. Demographics in Greensboro are unusual in that it has become an attractive place for young families who may not want to to go to Raliegh/Charlotte, but who are close enough to enjoy their attributes. While at the same time any empty nestors come to Greensboro because it's a cheap alternative to more tropical places and those people want a non surburban living situation that only downtown can provide.

Look at it this way: If the loop extended all the way out past Lake Jenette to the north and High Point to the south, the route would have encouraged much more sprawl that what might occur now in controlled areas.