Greensboro Urban Loop (Painter Boulevard)

[Hotlanta]

It wasnt to long ago when Greensboro had poor interstates. Remember when I-40 use to be two lanes in each direction while Charlotte and Raleigh had 4 and 5 lanes in each direction. Just recently I-40 in Greensboro converted from 2 lanes to 5 lanes in eaxh direction. A big reason while Winston-Salem's beltway proposal stalled was because of a lawsuit that held up its contruction. If it had not been for the lawsuit, part of the Winston-Salem beltway would be open today. Its interesting because Greensboro and Winston-Salem had beltway plans back in the 60s. I wonder if the route from the 60s plan is the same.

But Highway 52 in Winston-Salem should be 4 lanes in each direction. Rush hour traffic is a mess on 52 near downtown.

Yeah 52 does need it ALOT. I think Greensboro did deserve funding for the parts near the airport and the widening of I-40 because that was a mess! There was a proposal from the VADOT and MADOT to extend I-83 from its terminus in Baltimore down 29 to G'boro. I can't see I-785 from G'boro all the way to DC.

[Tre 4]

I think Winston-Salem is getting left behind when Raleigh, Durham, Ashville, Charlotte, Greensboro, and even Wilmington have loops and people are saying Greensboro need

[DCB]

"COMPLETE THE GREENSBORO LOOP!!! OTHERWISE, THERE MAY STILL BE A FEW SECTIONS OF THE CITY OUTSIDE DOWNTOWN THAT AREN'T COVERED WITH SUBURBAN CRAP."

I'd have to agree with Transitman on this one. The only reason to build this is to spur "development" in the northeast part of the county. Greensboro may be in the middle of a great downtown renaissance, but it's still, In my opinion, the most suburban major city in NC. I'd like to see that change, but I find it highly unlikely.

[intcvlcphlga]

I'd have to agree with Transitman on this one. The only reason to build this is to spur "development" in the northeast part of the county. Greensboro may be in the middle of a great downtown renaissance, but it's still, In my opinion, the most suburban major city in NC. I'd like to see that change, but I find it highly unlikely.

Agreed, it is the most decentralized of the major cities in the state. Perhaps, that is the silver-lining to W-S not getting highway money - it will allow W-S to focus on its urban core so that it can stand as an antithesis to Greensboro. W-S should still request its fair/proportionate share of the state transportation money that is going to GSO, Fayetteville, et al and put it towards building the light rail line that has been proposed.

[Beany]

According to population density figures, Greensboro is more densly populated than Winston. I don't understand the argument Greensboro being anymore suburban than any other city in N.C.

The NE portion of the loop is an important piece because it would re-route US-29 traffic originating from westbound/northbound I-40/85 onto it. This would bypass an old section of freeway that runs through the eastern part of town.

[twincity]

W-S's beltway delay is partly our fault due to our "Friends of Forsyth" residents. We would have a complete loop by now if ithey didnt challenge the plan.

[Tre 4]

W-S's beltway delay is partly our fault due to our "Friends of Forsyth" residents. We would have a complete loop by now if ithey didnt challenge the plan.

we still need our loop

[Hotlanta]

According to population density figures, Greensboro is more densly populated than Winston. I don't understand the argument Greensboro being anymore suburban than any other city in N.C.

The NE portion of the loop is an important piece because it would re-route US-29 traffic originating from westbound/northbound I-40/85 onto it. This would bypass an old section of freeway that runs through the eastern part of town.

The thing I hate about this loop is that it is diverting traffic onto new sections and is leading it away from the downtown and areas where they solely survived on the "interstate automobile."I just find the whole loop confusing and some portions of it unnessecary except the southern and PTI portions.

[cityboi]

The thing I hate about this loop is that it is diverting traffic onto new sections and is leading it away from the downtown and areas where they solely survived on the "interstate automobile."I just find the whole loop confusing and some portions of it unnessecary except the southern and PTI portions.

The thing is Greensboro is really no worse off becausee the city never had a downtown freeway to begin with. A loop would be damaging to Winston-Salem because the major artery freeways intersect in downtown. Once you build a loop, travellers will no longer go through downtown I hwy 52 and business 40 will be used mainly by locals. I disagree that Greensboro is a decentralized city. If anything its has become more centralized over the past several years with major downtown residential projects on the horizon, a downtown ballpark that could have easily been built somewhere off of I-40. Downtown is turning around and no matter what happens on the outskirts of town. downtown will continue to boom. Its happening in Charlotte. Charlotte is a huge sparwling city yet downtown has remained the focus. Same for Atlanta

[otherstream]

What I don't understand is why so much of the highway building in the state seems to go to Greensboro. Greensboro has better highways than Charlotte, a city 2-1/2 to 3 times the size of Greensboro. And, Winston-Salem, a city nearly as big as Greensboro, has been promised a beltway by the state since the 1960s and is only now getting bridges from the 1950s replaced. I'm not a proponent of building more and more highways, and would rather see that money go towards mass transit and instituting urban growth boundaries, but when it comes to highway projects, Greensboro is the last major city in the state in a position to complain to Raleigh.

You said it! I recently moved back to NC after thirteen years in California, so I'm visiting my parents in Greensboro a lot more these days. Every time I drive up there, I'm amazed at all the (seemingly unjustified) freeway construction. They've added enough capacity the past few years for a city four times the size of Greensboro. Would that most cities in California -- or even elesewhere in NC -- had anywhere near this much extra capacity. Greensboro must be the only city in the country where freeway construction is actually happening well in advance of demand...

[DigitalSky]

Amen to that

[sax184]

Density is not the only measure of sprawl- design matters. Winston also just annexed a slew of new land that is mostly rural, so that drives the average density down.

But don't kid yourself. Winston will have a much better downtown in the long run without the loop. The Friends of Forsyth have done Winston a fabulous service. The sooner the Greensboro loop is completed, the sooner even fewer Greensboro residents can get through an entire life in the city without ever doing anything downtown.

There isn't one cogent argument why Winston needs a beltway.

[Jerseyman4]

Greensboro must be the only city in the country where freeway construction is actually happening well in advance of demand...

Theres nothing wrong with that. Metro areas that are not progressive and do not have any foresight about the future really turn me off of me personally looking for a place to live in the future. This also turns off new NEEDED development that would benefit the Triad for job creation (think Dell and FedEx).

There are some things to consider with all of this highway construction in the Triad:

1. Two interstates are criss crossing through NC that being I-73 and I-74. They are given two different routes so highway construction is needed because otherwise, following along existening hgihways would REALLY put a burden on the existening highways capacity to begin with.

2. Greensboro and Winston warrant the need for beltways because people are moving there, commerce and industry is moving there plus a lot of out of town traffic traverses through the Triad so you need to move people around in many different ways possible.

3. Theres no limited access route for High Point besides I-85 and thats barely near the city limits. Dont you think its a joke to go from Winston-Salem (from I-40) to Randleman/Asheboro (via US 220) with no freeway? At least now, you can get as far south as Business 85 from I-40 in Winston along the High Point bypass but before, you had to drive INTO DOWNTOWN HIGH POINT with no other alternative!

4. All too often, plannign for the future is not done so well in many parts of the country. Its a fortunate thing that NCDOT really saw foresight of what the Triad needs and luckly no annoying tree huggers have disrupted & stopped progress yet. *KNOCK ON WOOD*

I would really hate to see the Triad become another Hartford, Connecticut with many incomplete freeway projects which many will never be revived!

[otherstream]

Valid statements, yes, but my point -- and that of the original post to which I replied -- was that there might be more of a need for some of this capacity (read "money") in the Triangle and Charlotte where people have already moved and where traffic is already at a crisis point than in Greensboro where it may become an issue in the future.

The last thing you could accuse me of is being an annoyoing tree hugger, and proactive planning and spending is a good thing, but Greensboro specifically (even compared to Winston-Salem) seems to have gotten just a touch more than its share over the past fifteen years relative to its population and growth.

Maybe the state is just making up for years of negelect prior to the 1990s, but it's hard for anyone driving through Greensboro from out of town -- especially after having fought their way through Charlotte or Raleigh to get there -- not to wonder just how many people will benefit from these vast, somewhat lightly-travellled stretches of highway (I-40 excepted, of course).

Theres nothing wrong with that. Metro areas that are not progressive and do not have any foresight about the future really turn me off of me personally looking for a place to live in the future. This also turns off new NEEDED development that would benefit the Triad for job creation (think Dell and FedEx).

There are some things to consider with all of this highway construction in the Triad:

1. Two interstates are criss crossing through NC that being I-73 and I-74. They are given two different routes so highway construction is needed because otherwise, following along existening hgihways would REALLY put a burden on the existening highways capacity to begin with.

2. Greensboro and Winston warrant the need for beltways because people are moving there, commerce and industry is moving there plus a lot of out of town traffic traverses through the Triad so you need to move people around in many different ways possible.

3. Theres no limited access route for High Point besides I-85 and thats barely near the city limits. Dont you think its a joke to go from Winston-Salem (from I-40) to Randleman/Asheboro (via US 220) with no freeway? At least now, you can get as far south as Business 85 from I-40 in Winston along the High Point bypass but before, you had to drive INTO DOWNTOWN HIGH POINT with no other alternative!

4. All too often, plannign for the future is not done so well in many parts of the country. Its a fortunate thing that NCDOT really saw foresight of what the Triad needs and luckly no annoying tree huggers have disrupted & stopped progress yet. *KNOCK ON WOOD*

I would really hate to see the Triad become another Hartford, Connecticut with many incomplete freeway projects which many will never be revived!

[cityboi]

Density is not the only measure of sprawl- design matters. Winston also just annexed a slew of new land that is mostly rural, so that drives the average density down.

But don't kid yourself. Winston will have a much better downtown in the long run without the loop. The Friends of Forsyth have done Winston a fabulous service. The sooner the Greensboro loop is completed, the sooner even fewer Greensboro residents can get through an entire life in the city without ever doing anything downtown.

There isn't one cogent argument why Winston needs a beltway.

Charlotte and Atlanta both have loops and they also have very thriving downtown. A loop will not destroy downtown. However they do have some negative effects on cities that have freeways that go through downtown because out of town traffic wont stop for a bite to eat downtown while going through the city. Instead the'll stop at a restaurant along the loop. Winston may not need a loop. Instead they should widen 52 and business 40. The only purpose for the loop seems to be to attract development near the edge of town which is something W-S lacks.

[jasoniman24]

I agree, the widening of 52 should be a top priority for Winston. I think this is one of the most dangerous stretches of highway in the state and should come before building a loop. As for Greensboro I would just like to see them finish what they are buiding now.

[blburton]

In my opinion, the NE section of the loop (meaning hwy 29/future 785 to hwy 70... the existing loop) should receive funding sooner than later. As the eastern Guilford County area grows, more traffic will be spilled onto 421, bus 85/40, wendover, etc to get to 29 going north towards va. getting this project over with sooner could help those inevitable problems later. i think the portion of the loop from battleground to 29 could wait, though.

http://www.wfmy.com/news/topstory_article.aspx?storyid=55827

I think this is the last section that needs funding. The southeastern leg is complete and construction is underway on the southwest and west loop near Bryan Blvd and the airport. half the loop will be complete with in the next few years. There is a massive "maze like" urban interchange under construction now where the loop crosses I-40 in west Greensboro.

[Hotlanta]

i think the portion of the loop from battleground to 29 could wait, though.

So do I, but there is a heavy population in that area and Battleground does need some relief.

[Jerseyman4]

In my opinion, the NE section of the loop (meaning hwy 29/future 785 to hwy 70... the existing loop) should receive funding sooner than later. As the eastern Guilford County area grows, more traffic will be spilled onto 421, bus 85/40, wendover, etc to get to 29 going north towards va. getting this project over with sooner could help those inevitable problems later. i think the portion of the loop from battleground to 29 could wait, though.

I disagree. An area that is already populated in NW Greensboro, needs alternatives to get around Greensboro and beyond. NE Guilford is not populated at all and to my knowledge, i dont think the area is growing at this time however an argument could be made to bypass US 29 through Greensboro. I still believe, in fairness to the taxpayers of NW & SW Guilford county deserve the NW/SW quadrants (for local mobility) to be built first then the NE quadrant last (to avoid death valley later).

[cityboi]

I think the northwest and Northeast should get funded soon. Northwest is congested and maybe that segment should be built first. but the northeast segment is important because it will be part of the I-785 leg. Highway 29 is being upgraded to interstate standards.

[jasoniman24]

What's the deal with the lighting on I-40? They installed lighting on the exit/entrance ramps last year, and I have yet to see them turned on. They also have provisions to install them in the median divider, like the ones in Burlington. It would be nice to have good lighting on 40, like Charlotte does on I-85.

[Hotlanta]

Too much money that the DOT doesn't want to shell out is the only reason I could think of. The plans were to have the lighting going all the way up and down the middle plus the light ploes were included in the budget for the widening. Go figure?

[Jerseyman4]

I think once the Painter Blvd (aka the I-40 bypass connection to the I-85 bypass) construction is fully completed, i believe the NCDOT will install lighting along the highway through its multilane portions between NC 68 and High Point Road. I guess it is just me and i did not say this in the Raleigh forum about I-440 but I have no problem with no lighting along the freeways in the state because my eyes are used to pitch darkness for night driving.

Guess its all what your used to

[Hotlanta]

I-40 in G'boro near 68 (PTI) has lighting doesn't it?

[Jerseyman4]

I-40 in G'boro near 68 (PTI) has lighting doesn't it?

Memory is not serving me very well on this one so im not sure

I do know that last time i was on I-277, the lights were out and it was pretty dark considering that i was right next to center city Charlotte.