The SEC West

[Mith242]

NCB had a topic like this so I thought maybe I should put something over here too. There was an interesting discussion about Arkansas joining the SEC and being new compared to most of the other teams not being able to develop any big rivalries so far. TennBear mentioned some interesting points in the topic over in the Lousiana forum. About how Arkansas was an outsider in the SWC because we were the only non-Texas team and how that feeling was sorta carried over. That and we are new compared to most of the teams and we are at the edge of the coference too. The SEC has been great for Arkansas and I think most people in the state think Arkansas fits better in the SEC. But ironically here in northwest Arkansas where we're much closer to the Big 12. I think as far as many people are concerned in this part of the state they wouldn't have minded Arkansas in the Big 12. There they'd get to play some of their old rivals from the SWC. That and the university is actually closer to most of the Big 12 schools than the SEC. But at the same time I think everyone realizes how good the SEC has been for us and I don't think there are any people wanting us to leave, even in this part of the state. I think most of the state can identify with the SEC better than the Big 12, so it helps keep Arkansas the 'state's team'. There aren't too many states that can mainly rally to just one team like Arkansas. Anyway anyone have any thoughts on the SEC West or just SEC in general?

[NCB]

IMO The SEC is a great conference for Arkansas. Granted, I dont live in Arkansas, nor am I up in North Arkansas often, so I dont really know what is going on up there in terms of what tha fans think. But Arkansas has really developed a great rivalry with LSU now, "The Battle for the Golden Boot" is a great game. I went to the UA LSU game in '03 and there were over 92,200 people in attendance at Tiger Stadium.(the 2nd largest in school history) The passion was great, the fans(and the players) really seem to enjoy that game more then the Ole Miss LSU game now. It seems that Arkansas fans enjoy it as well, I know that War Memorial Stadium in Little Rock was packed for the game last year.

Lets look into the future...Lets say that in the next few years, Arkansas develops into a major SEC powerhouse, win the SEC title, and go on to a National Championship or major bowl game. They would get much more publicity then they are getting now, and that would probably make Arkansas feel more "welcome" in the SEC.

More attention from the media and other fans makes a school feel more welcome in a conference, and I can see why Arkansas doesnt feel as welcome in the SEC or feels like an outsider, it is simply because it doesnt get much attention. But that can change in the matter of a year, so all you can do is give it time.

I think you could compare what Arkansas is dealing with now to what LSU was dealing with five years ago(in terms of media attention and feeling "welcome" or feeling like and ousider)

Five years ago no one cared about LSU, and they got almost no publicity at all, they were at the bottom of the class in most situations, they were on the "edge" of the conference. Now, 2 SEC titles and 1 national championship later, they are heavily publicized and are at the top of the class in most situations.

So 3-5 years from now who knows where Arkansas could be.

IMO its as simple as this...

Playing great=more respect from other fans and schools.

More Respect=more attention from media

More Respect from fans and More Attention=more of a "welcome" feeling in a conference.

The fans want to hear about the "serious contenders" in the SEC, this is why Vanderbilt and Kentucky get almost no attention from the media. No one thinks they will do very well, much less win the SEC.

So if Arkansas does well and becomes considered as a "serious contender" by other SEC fans(I already think they are a serious contender) they would get MUCH more publicity then they are getting now. Resulting in the University and the fans feeling like like a major part of the conference, and not an outsider.

Hope that helps...

[Mith242]

Yes the SEC definantly been good for Arkansas and like I said I don't think anyone in Arkansas would want then to leave. But I do think there are people here in northwest Arkansas, where the university is located, that have wondered what it would have been like if Arkansas was in the Big 12. This corner of the state probably feels closer to Oklahoma and Missouri and Kansas than any of the SEC states. But I think most of the state probably identifies more with the southeast. So as a whole it's a good fit and even if people here in northwest Arkansas identify with the Big 12 states better I don't think you have too many people wanting to leave the SEC. Even if they wish they could play Texas on a regular basis again.

[Mith242]

Arkansas picked up a big recruit for next year. Mitch Mustain the quarterback from Springdale has picked Arkansas. It might have seemed a given since he lives in the area but many of the other big players from Springdale have picked other schools. But most people have Mustain being the top high school quarterback in the country.

[Aporkalypse]

www.woopig.net is the place for this type of stuff, just wear a cup

The biggest issue with the SEC is the level of competition, particularly in football. We had some teams that would've dominated the old SWC and been top 20 teams in the Big XII finish 6-5 or 7-4.

[TennBear]

Mith,

I have been meaning to tell you that I like you're picture of the University of Arkansas that you use as your logo. I do.

I can see the point that you are making in this board about Arkansas and the Big 12. My quess is that the Big 12 would have to drop Baylor, if they were to add Arkansas. That would put Arkansas in the South. That would make what has been one of the most competitive of divisoins in college football even more competitive. Let's see Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, and Missouri every year as your logical North permanent oppositition. That is a tall order. I'm not certain that the Big 12 South teams would want to have you in knowing that you would be another mine in their regular schedule. As much as the Big 12 is down on Baylor, I'm certain that they look forward to having at least one Divisional Game that they don't have to put their A game on. That is not to say that Baylor cannot and has not won any Big 12 games, they have. They have not won many and have the same kind of image in the Big 12 as Vandy or Kentucky have. The SEC West is a different animal. There is not a program that has not put together a competitive team. Over its existance, it has shown the most balance of just about any division in college football. The two Mississippi schools and Arkansas have the hardest roads to hold because of images that for the most part are not fair, but still work against them to draw the best players. Houston Nutt has done a good job at Arkansas in drawing the best out of his talent. His best was held for the Cotton Bowl against Texas. He was able to show the historical importance of playing Texas and playing in the Cotton Bowl for Arkansas to his players and they completely wiped out a much more heralded Texas team. Playing Texas on a regular basis, where it's historical importance can be stessed would be good for Arkansas in recruitment and for its fan base. I do not know that Texas wants it. Again, they only have that one B game in the South and they know how many times Arkansas has given them all and more than they wanted.

[Mith242]

While there would be some nice things about being in the Big 12, the SEC is really the better conference. I'm not saying the Big 12 isn't a good conference but as a whole the SEC is just a major powerhouse conference. I'd say the only thing holding back the SEC lately is our basketball hasn't been as good as it had been. But football, baseball, track and field, the SEC has been very strong. So I don't think too many people even in my part of the state could complain too much.

[johnnydr87]

Yep. Mitch Mustain, ranked number 1 in the nation!

If I'm not mistaken, he committed fairly early as commitmants go (then again, I don't pay much attention to football so excuse me if I'm wrong).

So, hopefully this will encourage others to join the team behind the nation-leading quarterback.

[TennBear]

Here is an interesting article. I will say that it is biased in that it only takes into account sports in which the SEC holds a championship. I think that they should have included all ten sports that are counted in the Sears Trophy, meaning adding Wrestling. Don't know how much it would have changed the survey, but it would have helped out the Big Ten and Big Twelve.

SEC Tops All Conferences in Year-End Athletic Success Survey

08/10/2005

First time since 1995-96 SEC was high point total in both men's and women's sports

BIRMINGHAM, Ala. -- The Southeastern Conference, propelled by at least one of its member institutions placing in the national top four in 16 of 20 sponsored sports, placed first in a survey of all NCAA Division I-A conferences, comparing athletics success in the 2004-05 academic year.

The survey, compiled by a Dallas, Texas PR firm, gives 20 points for a member institution placing first nationally, 19th for second place, 18th for third and down to one point for 20th place. The survey takes into account the 20 sports that are sponsored by the SEC.

The SEC placed first with 973.5 points followed by the Pac-10 with 868 points, the Big 12 with 603.5 points, Big Ten with 481 points, ACC with 453 points and the Mountain West was sixth with 193.5 points.

The SEC placed first among all conferences in its nine men's sponsored sports with 451 points compared to the Pac-10's 367 points and the Big 12's 267 points. The SEC has accumulated the most men's sports in each of the last seven years and 13 of the last 14 years.

The SEC also placed first among all conferences in its 11 women's sponsored sports with 522.5 points compared to the Pac-10's 501 points and the Big 12's 336.5 points. The SEC broke an eight-year string by the Pac-10 as the highest women's point total. Since 1986-87, the Pac-10 has claimed the top spot each year with the exception of 1990-91 (SEC), 1995-96 (SEC) and last season (SEC).

The SEC won seven team national championships during the 2004-05 season

[Mith242]

The SEC is certainly helped by Arkansas in this case. With there being three track championships a year. Coach John McDonnell has won 41 National Championships. Some of those going back to the SWC days of course. That has been one area where I think Arkansas joining the SEC really helped. The other SEC teams have gotten better also, to try to give Arkansas a run for their money (yes pun included).

[TennBear]

The SEC is certainly helped by Arkansas in this case.  With there being three track championships a year.  Coach John McDonnell has won 41 National Championships.  Some of those going back to the SWC days of course.  That has been one area where I think Arkansas joining the SEC really helped.  The other SEC teams have gotten better also, to try to give Arkansas a run for their money (yes pun included).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The SEC has always been strong in track, but I think that Arkansas moved everyone into a new push.

Currently the SEC is:

yearly one of the top, if not the top Footbal Conference

about the third or fourth best Basketball Men's

Top Women's Basketball

Top indoor/outdoor Track Men's and Women's

Shares Most competitive Men's and Women's Tennis with Pac 10

Top Women's Gymnastics; Pac 10 top Men's SEC doesn't compete

First or Second in Cross Country Men's and Women's

Top Baseball Conference

Has moved into top 3 in Softball

Top in Swimming Men's and Women's

First or Second with ACC in Golf Men's and Women's

Wrestling Big 12 and Big 10 share top SEC does not compete

That is a strong conference. The Pac 10 competes in more championships than any other and compete in a number of sports that most major conferences don't compete in. They call themselves the Conference of Champions. I would not agree that point. They are very strong in a number of sports and have lead the way in introduces sports or the growth of sports.

[Arkansawyer]

NCB had a topic like this so I thought maybe I should put something over here too.

[Mith242]

The reason Arkansas doesn't have any huge rivals thus far in the SEC is because we have yet to be a dominant program in football since we've joined. We were one of the top dogs in the SWC, behind only Texas, so we were a premier team. In the SEC, I think we've earned respect for being a good program, but until we're regularly contending for conference championships, we won't be a fierce rival to any one team. That's simply because there are so many great teams in the SEC. It's like a who's who of college athletics. Arkansas did have quite a long history with LSU and Ole Miss before joining the SEC, so that certainly helps some. Lately we've had Alabama's number, and we dominated Auburn for a couple years there, but we have to do it consistantly. I really think Arkansas is a sleeping giant in the SEC, since we've generally been at our lowest point in modern football since we've been in the SEC. When we reach our level of greatness in the past, which could happen in the next few years, we'll have as much respect as any team in the conference. A top Arkansas football program would be a rival with whichever school was at the top of the SEC West Division.

The SEC is the only logical place for Arkansas. I don't know anyone who actually would rather be in the Big XII, but there is a sentiment of nostalgia among some for the rivalries with the Texas schools. However, outside of Texas and Texas A&M, there isn't any desire to play Texas Tech or Baylor. Without the connections to the Texas schools, I think there is really no attraction to that conference. The quality of football in the SEC just can't be rivaled, nor can the money it generates. Also, I think almost all would agree that trips to schools across the South are much more desirable than trips to the barren plains, with all due respect to some of those schools. Specifically concerning Arkansas, there are plenty of reasons to be in the SEC. The most important reason is that we're a Southern state, so we're a natural fit. In addition, the SEC is the premier track conference, which fits Arkansas perfectly. The Big XII is apparently big into wrestling, but like the other SEC schools, we don't  participate in that. The fact that Fayetteville is closer to some Big XII locations doesn't matter, becuase Arkansas is the state's school, and most of the fans aren't in Northwest Arkansas. Little Rock, which is the geographic center of the state, is immediately closer to more SEC schools. Oxford, MS is a little under 3 1/2 hours from Little Rock, while the closest Big XII schools, the ones in Oklahoma, are over 5 hours away. Some of the Big XII schools are just way out there. Drives to Lincoln, Lubbock, Ames, and Boulder, are over 10 hours. Columbia and Gainesville are comparable drives, but would you rather drive to South Carolina or Florida, or the aforementioned places. I will say Boulder is nice, but there might not be a worse drive in America.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do think overall the SEC is better for the razorbacks and the state as a whole. But I do think there are people who sometimes wonder what it would be like for us to be in the Big 12. Especially here in northwest Arkansas where the school is located. We obviously have more ties to Missouri, Oklahoma, and Kansas up here than the southeast. But at the same time the SEC has been very good for us so I doubt there's that many people up here who would really want us to leave and join the Big 12. But it is ironic that the university is located in the one part of the state that has more ties to the Big 12 than the rest of the southeast. I do think people up here wouldn't mind seeing us play teams like Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, and Kansas. Because all of those states are not too far away from the university. Then you also have the old rivalries like Texas and Texas A&M. But like I said, I think most people know it would be a mistake to leave the SEC.

[TennBear]

I got a chuckle out of the comparison of visiting Southern Schools vs Schools in the Plains States. It made me think of an old line. "If you want to see the prettiest part of Texas, you get I-30 going East. As soon as it starts to get pretty and green, you'll realize your in Arkansas."

[Mith242]

I got a chuckle out of the comparison of visiting Southern Schools vs Schools in the Plains States. It made me think of an old line. "If you want to see the prettiest part of Texas, you get I-30 going East. As soon as it starts to get pretty and green, you'll realize your in Arkansas."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Mith242]

Well as many of us already know Arkansas has it's work cut out for it this year. The SEC schedule and Southern Cal on the schedule. If Alabama is ranked when we play them, which is certainly possible, we will play five top 25 teams this year. It's going to be a pretty hard season on a rather young team. But we do at least get a brake playing Vanderbuilt instead of Tennessee or Florida.

[Aporkalypse]

Well as many of us already know Arkansas has it's work cut out for it this year.  The SEC schedule and Southern Cal on the schedule.  If Alabama is ranked when we play them, which is certainly possible, we will play five top 25 teams this year.  It's going to be a pretty hard season on a rather young team.  But we do at least get a brake playing Vanderbuilt instead of Tennessee or Florida.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not counting on Vandy as a win. They're rarely great but also are capable of beating us on any given night. Nutt's silly comments about putting them on the schedule may come back to haunt us. I bet we end up playing 5 ranked teams, in the SEC there are a ton of teams that can surprise you. The OTHER USC may end up being one.

[Mith242]

I'm not counting on Vandy as a win.  They're rarely great but also are capable of beating us on any given night.  Nutt's silly comments about putting them on the schedule may come back to haunt us.  I bet we end up playing 5 ranked teams, in the SEC there are a ton of teams that can surprise you.  The OTHER USC may end up being one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's true, especially since we have a rather young team too.

[NCB]

The SEC West looks interesting so far.

I was extremely happy to see LSU win. When you think about what the LSU team has gone through in the last few weeks and what they are playing for, its hard not to root for them, IMO.

I was rooting for Arkansas last night against USC, but hey, you cant win em all right?

Auburn is playing alright, they played to easy opponents and won, and played one hard opponent, and lost, so you cant really judge their play just yet.

Alabama is playing great, Im glad to see them coming out of their "slump" in the last few years.

Arkansas is already getting national media attention for the aquisition of QB Mitch Mustain. From what I've heard, he is a great football player, so congrats Arkansas!

[Aporkalypse]

I was rooting for Arkansas last night against USC, but hey, you cant win em all right?

Like Planter's, it's time to can Nutt. This crap is old.

[NCB]

Like Planter's, it's time to can Nutt.  This crap is old.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is Nutt generally liked by Arkansas fans?

The media makes him out to be very well liked by the fans.

[Mith242]

Is Nutt generally liked by Arkansas fans?

The media makes him out to be very well liked byt the fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Generally yes, but last year and the results so far this year have been making quite a few fans question whether he really should be our coach. Granted the loss to Vanderbuilt might not be quite as bad as it seems. They beat Ole Miss too and it looks like Vanderbuilt is actually a decent team this year. But still losing to Vanderbuilt at home isn't anyway to endear yourself to the fans. I think many fans are already worried this will be another year without a bowl. Sure I expected the Razorbacks would lose to USC but I had hoped we would at least make it close. Losing 70-17 is embarrasing not just for Arkansas but I think for the SEC as well.

[NCB]

Generally yes, but last year and the results so far this year have been making quite a few fans question whether he really should be our coach.  Granted the loss to Vanderbuilt might not be quite as bad as it seems.  They beat Ole Miss too and it looks like Vanderbuilt is actually a decent team this year.  But still losing to Vanderbuilt at home isn't anyway to endear yourself to the fans.  I think many fans are already worried this will be another year without a bowl.  Sure I expected the Razorbacks would lose to USC but I had hoped we would at least make it close.  Losing 70-17 is embarrasing not just for Arkansas but I think for the SEC as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Personally, I think that if Arkansas doesnt improve in the next few weeks, Nutt should be fired.

Arkansas may not be the best team in the country, but they have plenty of talent...

Last year I thought that they were bowl-bound, and they could've made a bowl game, but I dont think Nutt used the all of the talent that his team could produce.

We are only 3 weeks into the season this year, but Arkansas definitely has enough talent to beat Vanderbilt, and enough talent to stay somewhat close to USC....and that didnt happen.

Now I am not a diehard Razorbacks fan, but I like to follow what is going on with the program....I could be wrong, but I think Nutt could be doing a much better job with the team that he has...

[Mith242]

Personally, I think that if Arkansas doesnt improve in the next few weeks, Nutt should be fired.

Arkansas may not be the best team in the country, but they have plenty of talent...

Last year I thought that they were bowl-bound, and they could've made a bowl game, but I dont think Nutt used the all of the talent that his team could produce.

We are only 3 weeks into the season this year, but Arkansas definitely has enough talent to beat Vanderbilt, and enough talent to stay somewhat close to USC....and that didnt happen.

Now I am not a diehard Razorbacks fan, but I like to follow what is going on with the program....I could be wrong, but I think Nutt could be doing a much better job with the team that he has...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ironically the best the Razorback's have been under Nutt were right when he took over and was using the previous coach's players. I guess I've viewed Houston Nutt in a more positive light than many others but I have to admit if the season doesn't get any better maybe they should start looking. Nutt looked into the LSU job which made a number of Arkansas fans mad. I do wonder if there's a bit of a double standard going on though. It's not right for him to consider another job somewhere but it's okay if we feel like ditching him when times get rough? Maybe it's wishful thinking but I am hoping that this is the low point to Nutt's career at Arkansas and that thing's will get better next year. I do think that Nutt is the type of coach that probably wouldn't leave Arkansas unless one of the greatest coaching jobs became available and they were interested in him. I think most coaches would be ready to bolt from Arkansas as soon as they thought another job in the SEC or something became available. Arkansas isn't exactly a place most coaches want to go to.

[Aporkalypse]

Is Nutt generally liked by Arkansas fans?

The media makes him out to be very well liked by the fans.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He was at one point, he was an icon from 1998-2000. Gradually over the years his popularity as declined and his "used car salesman" veneer has rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Threatening to leave for Nebraska and playing the UA against them left a lot of people irritated and then trying the same thing with an LSU program that wasn't even interested (which not winning consistently) was even worse. At this point the program's no better than what he inherited from Ford and recruiting is declining.

Mith - without a bowl? This team is terrible, it will be lucky to finish with 4 wins. Vandy is not a good team, we just completely lacked a defense. Our defense would be terrible in the CUSA, let alone the SEC. Ole Miss, thank God, is nearly as bad. Recruiting is a little worse each year. Other than Mustain, the state's best players are leaving - sopmething that never happens at the UA unless a coaching change is soon behind (see Ford and Holtz).

"Arkansas isn't exactly a place most coaches want to go to."

On the contrary, I think it is. Expectations are reasonable, facilities are better than nearly anyone in the league (though not the largest), and we have the funds to pay anyone we want. Teams like Nebraska and Alabama have struggled to find coaches because their expectations were absurd, we are relatively laid back.

We'll see how this season plays out but there are a lot of signs that Butch Davis is interested in the job and he spoke at the LR Touchdown Club last week and made some interesting statements and certainly didn't deny interest. He was at the USC game with Tyson and their sons and as a Springdale native and UA alum wanting to return to the college game after a hard time in the NFL, this may be the right place for him. I'd take him in a heartbeat.