year-round school?

[jeafl]

If you had the option of sending your children to a school that has a 45 week school year with a 1-3 week break every 9 weeks, would you do it?

What if this year-round option meant your children could either enter school at a later age or graduate at an earlier age?

What if this year-round school required its students to take courses for 8 advanced placement exams?

[Viper]

I've never been a big fan of year round school. There is something about Summer that must be experienced and cherished as a kid before they learn the horrible truth that as you get older, you work every week.

[JaxNole]

I liked the traditional school year. I took nine AP and six IB classes and welcomed the long summer vacation. By the third day of classes, we had already delved into a chapter of material with full force. I don't think I would have been able to maintain the momentum if we had numerous breaks, knowing we wouldn't have a long vacation at the end of the academic year. That was my prize for surviving the horror known as Stanton for six long years!

I graduated when I was 17 and freshman year of college would probably have been difficult to adjust to if I was 16 when I graduated high school. The changes are too dramatic for a 16 year old to acclimate well and could cause an awkward and daunting first semester.

[Jaylon]

On one hand I like the year round school idea because children forget a lot of information over the summer that they learned the previous year. On the other hand, I loved having my summers off. If your family went on vacation, they had several weeks to choose from and I doubt that kind of flexibility will be possible with school year round. Also you had the opportunity to pick up a summer job.

[Urban_Legend]

I did year round schooling in Argyle, and looking back, I think it was great. As a kid, I could frequently visit my grandparents, every nine weeks. It was a great influence to be able to do that. But that's just personal...

I think the "regular vs. year-round" argument is like a "Mac vs. PC" debate. If I could, I'd send my future kids to a year-round school. (And I want a Mac lol)

[Aessotariq]

I've never been a big fan of year round school.  There is something about Summer that must be experienced and cherished as a kid before they learn the horrible truth that as you get older, you work every week.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh so true... it's almost like you read my mind.

The school I went to for fifth grade was on a year-round schedule. They did it to see if it was an effective way to ease overcrowding. Their little experiment meant that my summer vacation that year between 4th and 5th grades got cut by 6 weeks because the "track" that I was assigned to started in July.

We had five "tracks" or schedules, A, B, C, D, and E. Students were assigned to specific tracks. Tracks A-D started mid July, and Track E started last, end of August. There was only enough classroom space for four tracks to be in session at one time. Track D was the first group to go on break, and that's when Track E students started their first week of school. Track E used Track D's classrooms for three weeks, until Track D returned from break. Then Track C would go on break and Track E would have to move to those classrooms, then B, then A, etc. Track E students and teachers were the nomads, jumping around from classroom to classroom every three weeks.

It's no fun to move from a school on a year-round schedule to one that is not on one... That's what I had to do, and I ended up in a school that had just opened, where I was six weeks ahead of everyone and having to cover the same material over again. The first few weeks were always review anyways.

[JaxNole]

I think the "regular vs. year-round" argument is like a "Mac vs. PC" debate.  If I could, I'd send my future kids to a year-round school.  (And I want a Mac lol)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps it would have been different if this was in high school and one with a rigorous academic program. My years at Stanton were much more involved and demanding than any of my college classes. A three week break (for example, Christmas) was a major disruption, in that we had to spend a day or two playing catch up when classes resumed after the new year. If an extra day or two was used to review material like on a year-round schedule, that's a full week of classes wasted which could have been used to prepare for the demands of AP and IB exams. Besides, much of Christmas break was used to prepare the science projects, and the 4,000+ word IB extended essay. Not only that, but the AP sciences had a mini project to be conducted over Christmas break requiring us to balance "spillover" projects with time with the family and the other festivities.

One of the arguments presented by year-round supporters is that less time would be spent reviewing material. This was not the case at my school. Each day was spent building on a literary theme, labs exploring the nature of chemical volatility and the progression of more complex concepts of Calculus BC.

Year-round schools may be better for most programs, but I think it would have a negative effect for my alma mater.

[jeafl]

Perhaps it would have been different if this was in high school and one with a rigorous academic program.  My years at Stanton were much more involved and demanding than any of my college classes.  A three week break (for example, Christmas) was a major disruption, in that we had to spend a day or two playing catch up when classes resumed after the new year.  If an extra day or two was used to review material like on a year-round schedule, that's a full week of classes wasted which could have been used to prepare for the demands of AP and IB exams.  Besides, much of Christmas break was used to prepare the science projects, and the 4,000+ word IB extended essay.  Not only that, but the AP sciences had a mini project to be conducted over Christmas break requiring us to balance "spillover" projects with time with the family and the other festivities.

One of the arguments presented by year-round supporters is that less time would be spent reviewing material.  This was not the case at my school.  Each day was spent building on a literary theme, labs exploring the nature of chemical volatility and the progression of more complex concepts of Calculus BC. 

Year-round schools may be better for most programs, but I think it would have a negative effect for my alma mater.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I graduated with Stanton's 1987 class. I spent every Christmas break doing the experiment for the year's science project and every spring break writing the year's research paper. Stanton was never what it was supposed to be. In my opinion it was more work than the end result was worth. I figured that with the course repetition (life science, 9th grade bio, 12th grade AP bio; Algebra I and II, 8th grade physical science and 10th grade chemistry/11th grade physics; American history in grades 8 and 11; World history in 10th grade and European history in 12th grade; 2 years IB English and 1 year AP English) my class repeated an entire school year.

I am planning to open a private school that will use a year-round schedule, but the daily schedule will have only 4 graded classes with part of each day being used for homework, tutoring and non-academic activities.

[JaxNole]

Nice to meet you, fellow alumnus! Glad to see others have survived and perhaps maintained a semblance of sanity.

I differ in your opinions that Stanton wasn't what it was supposed to be and that the curriculum resulted in a superfluous year. For one, my freshman year in college actually placed me at the same level of sophomores and college has been easy compared to the rigors of Stanton. The name of our alma mater is Stanton College Preparatory School and it certainly was that for me and the majority of my graduating class. I maxed out on the number of classes that exempted me from the joys of typical classes like "The College Writer" and Calculus I.

As for the repititious classes, I view it in a different way. The early years served as a primer and subsequent classes developed the breadth of knowledge that culminated in the AP/IB exams. The same holds true for college. I've taken a COBOL class which now enables me to delve further into its applications, such as Data Structures.

If I had not had the solid foundation in the 7th and 8th grades, I would not have been able to succeed in the progression of classes of Pre-IB and ultimately IB.

7th Grade

World Geography, English, Algebra I (tested out of Pre-Algebra), Latin, Life Science

8th Grade

US History, English, Geometry, German I, Physical Science

9th Grade

World History, Pre-IB English, Algebra II, German II, Biology, Economics/Gov't

10th Grade

European History, Pre-IB English II, Precalculus, German III, Chemistry

11th Grade

AP American History, AP Language/IB English (SL), AP Calculus AB, AP German IV, Physics, IB Geography, Theory of Knowledge/Research

12th Grade

AP World History/IB Contemporary History, AP Literature/IB English (HL), AP Calculus BC/IB Math (HL), German V/IB Language, AP/IB Chemistry, Theory of Knowledge (taken during summer at UNF to free up an AP elective), AP Art History

Fresman year I had floormates asking for my critiques for their composition classes. I developed a sense of effective and persuasive communication through the inordinate amount of writing. As a reward, I have never had to take a composition or literature class. I was also able to enroll in Calc III, but felt I didn't grasp enough of Calc II, so I retook that class. Made an A.

The earlier years for the Stanton curriculum are the very foundations colleges use to build. I view a Bachelor's as nothing but a stepping stone to even greater culminations of knowledge. I am prepared for my Master's. With many respects to academia, the depth and breadth of knowledge does not stop, even when the Ph.D, JD or MD is conferred.

Best of luck with your school. Keep us udpated!

[jeafl]

Nice to meet you, fellow alumnus!  Glad to see others have survived and perhaps maintained a semblance of sanity.

I differ in your opinions that Stanton wasn't what it was supposed to be and that the curriculum resulted in a superfluous year.  For one, my freshman year in college actually placed me at the same level of sophomores and college has been easy compared to the rigors of Stanton.  The name of our alma mater is Stanton College Preparatory School and it certainly was that for me and the majority of my graduating class.  I maxed out on the number of classes that exempted me from the joys of typical classes like "The College Writer" and Calculus I.

As for the repititious classes, I view it in a different way.  The early years served as a primer and subsequent classes developed the breadth of knowledge that culminated in the AP/IB exams.  The same holds true for college.  I've taken a COBOL class which now enables me to delve further into its applications, such as Data Structures.

If I had not had the solid foundation in the 7th and 8th grades, I would not have been able to succeed in the progression of classes of Pre-IB and ultimately IB. 

7th Grade

World Geography, English, Algebra I (tested out of Pre-Algebra), Latin, Life Science

8th Grade

US History, English, Geometry, German I, Physical Science

9th Grade

World History, Pre-IB English, Algebra II, German II, Biology, Economics/Gov't

10th Grade

European History, Pre-IB English II, Precalculus, German III, Chemistry

11th Grade

AP American History, AP Language/IB English (SL), AP Calculus AB, AP German IV, Physics, IB Geography, Theory of Knowledge/Research

12th Grade

AP World History/IB Contemporary History, AP Literature/IB English (HL), AP Calculus BC/IB Math (HL), German V/IB Language, AP/IB Chemistry, Theory of Knowledge (taken during summer at UNF to free up an AP elective), AP Art History

Fresman year I had floormates asking for my critiques for their composition classes.  I developed a sense of effective and persuasive communication through the inordinate amount of writing.  As a reward, I have never had to take a composition or literature class.  I was also able to enroll in Calc III, but felt I didn't grasp enough of Calc II, so I retook that class.  Made an A.

The earlier years for the Stanton curriculum are the very foundations colleges use to build.  I view a Bachelor's as nothing but a stepping stone to even greater culminations of knowledge.  I am prepared for my Master's.  With many respects to academia, the depth and breadth of knowledge does not stop, even when the Ph.D,  JD or MD is conferred.

Best of luck with your school.  Keep us udpated!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My AP biology class at Stanton did not do me much good. I earned 8 hours credit from the AP exam, but because the main Emory University campus in Atlanta was over-crowded I had to spend my first 2 years at Emory's satellite campus in Oxford, Georgia. Because my AP class counted as the 2 freshman level biology courses in college and these two courses were all that Oxford offered, I was in my 3rd year of college before I could take a biology course.

One of the 7th grade life science lab exercises involved cutting a lowercase letter "e" out of the newspaper and examining it with microscope. We also had to examine an elodea leaf and a slice of potato. I did the same lab exercise for 9th grade bio and again for 12th grade AP bio. At some point repetition becomes ridiculous.

[Viper]

I also had a year of Stanton. I did well but you are correct in that breaking it up over the course of a year round schedule would have been a disaster.

[jeafl]

I also had a year of Stanton.  I did well but you are correct in that breaking it up over the course of a year round schedule would have been a disaster.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I entered Stanton with its first 7th grade class. Stanton opened with about 1200 7th grade students. My graduating class had 75 students and most of them entered at later grades. I cannot recall that I shared a single 7th grade class with anyone in my senior class. I would say that no more than 30-40 members of senior class had been in Stanton since day 1 of the 7th grade.

My 7th grade class was promised that by the time we graduated Stanton would have a pre-med program associated with the University of Florida. But in the 11th grade I signed up for an anatomy class, but the school did not have enough interested students to support having the class.

Perhaps I am a better judge of what Stanton should have been and could have been than anyone here is. The school I want to open will use Stanton as its model, but with significant improvements.

Here is the tentative curriculum for my school. Compare it to Stanton.

Middle School Curriculum: 15 academic terms

All classes will be 50-55 minutes long

Mathematics:

I. Fractional operations

II. Decimal operations

III. Elementary Statistics: percentages, average, range,

mode, median

IV-VIII. Algebra

IX-XI. Plane geometry

XII-XIII. Trigonometry

XIV-XV. Analytic geometry

XVI. Discrete Math

Humanities:

I-IV. English Grammar

V-VII. Research and composition

VIII. Introduction to literature

IX. English literature and composition

X. U.S. literature and composition

XI. Western art, architecture and music

XII-XVI. Foreign language

Science:

I-IV. Introduction to Science

V. Health and Safety

VI. Physical geography/Atmospheric science/Astronomy

VII. Ecology/environmental science

VIII. Technology

IX. Archeology/paleontology

X-XII. Ecology Lab

XIII. Laboratory techniques

XIV-XV. Creation Science

XVI. Science Project

Social Studies:

I. Introduction to Social Science.

II-III. World history

IV-V. U.S. history

VI. Government theory

VII. Economics theory

VIII-XVI. Government/economics simulation

High school

The first course listed in each term will have a double class the way Stanton has for its AP science classes. All classes will be 50 or 55 minutes long.

Term 1

Foreign Language I

Calculus I

Western Civilization I

Term 2

Foreign Language II

Calculus II

Western Civilization II

Term 3

Foreign Language III

Calculus III

Western Civilization III

Term 4

Foreign Language IV

Calculus IV

Western Civilization IV

Term 5

Physics I

American History I

British Literature I

Term 6

Physics II

American History II

British Literature II

Term 7

Physics III

American History III

British Literature III

Term 8

Physics IV

American History IV

British Literature IV

Term 9

Chemistry I

Non-Western History I

American Literature I

Term 10

Chemistry II

Non-Western History II

American Literature II

Term 11

Chemistry III

Non-Western History III

American Literature III

Term 12

Chemistry IV

Non-Western History IV

American Literature IV

Term 13

Biology I

World Literature

Western Music

Term 14

Biology II

Western Art

Bible I

Term 15

Biology III

Life Management

Bible II

Term 16

Biology IV

Research

Bible III

[Viper]

2 things.

1. Please make music a required course. It has played a far more important role in our history than most people imagine.

2. Bible studies. Perhaps include other religious texts from multiple denominations (Qu'ran, gnostic texts, etc) in one class so as not to appeal toward one background of student but to all students and to give them the full story.

I should be back in Jax by that time and perhaps my two young ones will one day sit in yoru classrooms.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

What kind of SAT scores do these schools average?

[JaxNole]

One of the 7th grade life science lab exercises involved cutting a lowercase letter "e" out of the newspaper and examining it with microscope.  We also had to examine an elodea leaf and a slice of potato.  I did the same lab exercise for 9th grade bio and again for 12th grade AP bio.  At some point repetition becomes ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are you kidding me? It's not about those two simple lab exercises. The value of those labs has even broader relevance as the material becomes more in-depth.

Your experience at Stanton was also in its first years. The concept has evolved significantly. Pioneering an academic magnet from scratch will be met with disappointments, but it prepared me so well I spent less time studying in college.

The IB program, through its rigors and critical thinking, helped me synthesize the relevance between numerous disciplines. Many students choose a major and graduate simply by passing the classes. Most of my Stanton classmates assimilated the subject matter to develop "comprehensive knowledge". Academia isn't simply about learning the text; it's tying it all together.

[JaxNole]

Stanton's International Baccalaureate Program of Study found here: http://www.stantoncollegeprep.org/IB/IBProgramStudy.htm

IB Program of Study

Freshman Year

- English Honors I Pre-IB

- World History Honors

- Biology I Honors

- Algebra II Honors

- Foreign Language I (French, Spanish, German, or Latin)

- Performing Fine Art

- Computing/Life Management

- PE/Personal Fitness

Sophomore Year

- English Honors II Pre-IB

- AP European History

- Chemistry I Honors Pre-IB

- Geometry Honors

- Foreign Language II

- Foreign Language III

- Prerequisite for Group Six Subject or Elective

- Elective

Junior Year

- IB English III (AP Language)

- AP American History

- Physics I Honors

- Pre-Calculus

- AP Foreign Language

- Foreign Language V-IB

- IB Theory of Knowledge I/IB Research

- Group Six Subject*

Senior Year

- IB Englhish IV (AP English Lit.)

- IB Contemporary History

- AP/IB Science (Biology, Chemistry, or Physics)

- Science Research

- IB Standard Level Math**, Math Studies or Higher Level Mathematics***

- IB TOK II/ 1/2 credit Elective

Elective

Elective

*Group Six Subjects include: Philosophy, Psycology, Visual Arts, Theatre Arts, Film, Computer Science, 2nd Science, or 2nd Foreign Language

**This course also includes AP Calculus AB

***For students who are accelerated in the math sequence. The course also includes Calculus BC

Stanton also has an extensive list of prestigious colleges alumni have attended. This can be found here: http://www.cyberguidance.net/scpsprofilecolleges.pdf

SAT and ACT scores can be found here:http://www.educationcentral.org/reseval/Schools/SchoolResearchData.asp?school=153

SAT ACT

Verbal Math Composite English Math Composite

2003/2004 595 592 1187 24.9 24.8 24.9

2002/2003 593 587 1180 25.3 24.8 25.3

2001/2002 583 571 1154 24.8 24.7 24.7

2000/2001 582 565 1147 23.9 23.5 24.1

1999/2000 572 575 1147 24.6 24.5 24.8

The average SAT score is about 1010.

[JaxNole]

I entered Stanton with its first 7th grade class.  Stanton opened with about 1200 7th grade students.  My graduating class had 75 students and most of them entered at later grades.  I cannot recall that I shared a single 7th grade class with anyone in my senior class.  I would say that no more than 30-40 members of senior class had been in Stanton since day 1 of the 7th grade.

Well, from the time you graduated until I graduated in 1995, I can tell you our class make up was significantly different than yours. Keep in mind, you graduated in 1987 and the school was still growing. Rubrics were still being developed, teachers were still being trained with the AP and IB curricula and more teachers with at least a Master's level of education were drawn to the school. My AP/IB Language teacher has a JD and a Ph.D. Stanton was an ambitious project to attract the area's brightest children with the most potential. It would be unrealistic to expect everything to come to fruition with such a young school.

My graduating class numbered at least 300 and a good percentage of my classmates were there the whole six years.

Perhaps I am a better judge of what Stanton should have been and could have been than anyone here is.  The school I want to open will use Stanton as its model, but with significant improvements.

You may be a better judge of what became of the Stanton that you attended, but not what it could have been because it has already achieved greatness. Presitigious colleges and universities are territorial about Stanton juniors and seniors. I had alumni from Penn, Columbia, Princeton, Brown and Cornell contact me to encourage me to meet with them informally and apply. In my eyes, Stanton has already become great and continues to reach new levels each year.

I like your curriculum, but I think it will be difficult to have such high stages of the sciences and mathematics. I took three levels of Calculus-based Physics. Do you propose your high school students will be able to grasp modern physics, electromagnetic fields and waves and statistical thermodynamics? That is heady material.

As far as the calculus curriculum, multivariate calculus (Calc III) is extremely taxing as well as differential equations and advanced calculus. I was one of about 15 people at Stanton who had taken Calc BC (college equivalent of Calc II) when I graduated.

I think it's great to want to cultivate brilliant minds, but the subject matter is reserved for colleges and universities for a reason. Certain fundamental building classes require longer exposure in order for the concepts to gel. Sure, there are prodigies who can take calculus in the third grade, but they are anomalies.

The rest of your curriculum mirrors my academic career at Stanton. In fact, I didn't even take Pre-Algebra and discrete math (which I'm taking this semester as a junior-level course) was introduced in Precalculus.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

The average SAT score is about 1010.

Does everyone take all these advanced courses and this really complex schedule?

It's interesting that at schools like my school, the average SAT is over 1180 (mine was a 1440) and we didn't have Calc IV and Chemistry IV.

EDIT: I thought jeafl's proposed school was already realized since I had not read the whole thread. Stanton's programs looks about what a school's programs should look like today.

[Viper]

I was at Stanton in the '92-'93 school year for my freshman year and the curriculum is about exactly to what JaxNole stated.

[jeafl]

2 things.

1. Please make music a required course.  It has played a far more important role in our history than most people imagine.

Music appreciation is already included in the middle school curriculum and depending on the talent the students have I want to offer band or chorus as an extra-curricular activity.

2. Bible studies.  Perhaps include other religious texts from multiple denominations (Qu'ran, gnostic texts, etc)

Not in a Christian-based school. The school will be a Christian school, but it won't be something like Trinity Christian Academy. The purpose will be to provide a good quality education in a Christian environment, not usinig education as a way of promoting Christianity.

[jeafl]

What kind of SAT scores do these schools average?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you are talking about the school I am designing, I know of no other school comparable to what my school will be.

[jeafl]

Are you kidding me?  It's not about those two simple lab exercises.  The value of those labs has even broader relevance as the material becomes more in-depth. 

Your experience at Stanton was also in its first years.  The concept has evolved significantly.  Pioneering an academic magnet from scratch will be met with disappointments, but it prepared me so well I spent less time studying in college.

The IB program, through its rigors and critical thinking, helped me synthesize the relevance between numerous disciplines.  Many students choose a major and graduate simply by passing the classes.  Most of my Stanton classmates assimilated the subject matter to develop "comprehensive knowledge".  Academia isn't simply about learning the text; it's tying it all together.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't gain depth by simply repeating a procedure. Once you learn how to use a light microscope, why do you gain by learning how to use it again and again?

BTW: The few IB courses I took at Stanton were no different than the courses I would have taken at Stanton anyway because they were the only courses Stanton offered. I was not even enrolled in the IB program until 10th grade and the IB coordinator at the time was a real lu-lu. He was a history teacher who once told me that Midway was an insignificant battle. He was a typical 1960s, sandal-clad hippie. I never knew for certain from one day to the next what the IB program required. I only took 1 IB exam- physics on a week's notice when I had not yet completed my physics course. I was never even told what my score was.

[JaxNole]

Does everyone take all these advanced courses and this really complex schedule?

EDIT: I thought jeafl's proposed school was already realized since I had not read the whole thread. Stanton's programs looks about what a school's programs should look like today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, that is the IB curriculum, which is largely unchanged since 1995. Those not in IB have to take a minimum of four AP classes.

[JaxNole]

You don't gain depth by simply repeating a procedure.  Once you learn how to use a light microscope, why do you gain by learning how to use it again and again?

This could be answered from numerous angles, but the top reason to learn by repetition is for precision which leads to mastery. None of my labs were repeats like you stated yours were. We observed cork and elodea leaves. Bio I introduced the fetal pig.

What about the other courses in the curriculum? Did you not think Calculus I or II would prepare you for college by exempting you? What about AP/IB English Language and AP/IB English Literature by exempting you from three or four classes in college? What about AP/IB World History by exempting you from two history classes in college? AP/IB Chemistry exempted me from the prerequisite science requirements. AP/IB German exempted me from the foreign language requirement.

In my upper-level college classes, even though I hadn't taken a college writing class, I was still able to earn high marks on essays because my pencil was the most used school supply...oh, and paper. It became almost second nature to communicate my thoughts in any discipline to sit down, gather evidence, create a draft and then publish the final product. I can do all of the steps in my head now and I attribute this to the repetition whose merits you question.

BTW: The few IB courses I took at Stanton were no different than the courses I would have taken at Stanton anyway because they were the only courses Stanton offered.  I was not even enrolled in the IB program until 10th grade and the IB coordinator at the time was a real lu-lu.  He was a history teacher who once told me that Midway was an insignificant battle.  He was a typical 1960s, sandal-clad hippie.  I never knew for certain from one day to the next what the IB program required.  I only took 1 IB exam- physics on a week's notice when I had not yet completed my physics course.  I was never even told what my score was.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, and again, I qualify that with that was your experience when Stanton was graduating its first or second class. I'm relating what the curriculum is now and has been for more than 10 years. Any fledgling institution is going to have difficulties and awkward moments. If you read the curriculum I had from grades seven through senior year and compare it to Stanton's current program of study, they are identical, except I took more AP/IB classes.

[JaxNole]

My AP biology class at Stanton did not do me much good.  I earned 8 hours credit from the AP exam, but because the main Emory University campus in Atlanta was over-crowded I had to spend my first 2 years at Emory's satellite campus in Oxford, Georgia. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's not really the fault of Stanton. You did, indeed, earn eight hours of credit from a class you took at Stanton, right? It was your university that had problems accomodating your success.