year-round school?

[jeafl]

Freshman Year

- English Honors I Pre-IB

- World History Honors

- Biology I Honors

- Algebra II Honors

- Foreign Language I (French, Spanish, German, or Latin)

- Performing Fine Art

- Computing/Life Management

- PE/Personal Fitness

The curriculum has changed since I was in Stanton, but I would not necessarily say it is any better. In the 9th grade I had Biology I, U.S. government/economics, Geometry and an English class that was mostly grammar along with my 2nd year of German. World history was a 10th grade course, but it covered very little that was not also covered in 12th grade AP European history.

In 10th grade I had Algebra II, IB English lit, chemistry and world history along with my 3rd year of German.

11th grade was pre-calculus, IB English lit, physics, AP American history (a duplicate of 8th grade American history) and my 4th year of German.

Since I failed pre-calc (but later got a B+ in college for a semester of calculus) I left the IB program before 12th grade. But, in 12th grade I took trigonometry/analytic geometry (most of which was covered in pre-calc and both of which I earned a B and both which would have qualified me to take calculus if I had taken them in the 11th grade instead of pre-calc- but no one told me this at the time), AP European History, AP English lit (which I found to be more demanding than either of my 2 IB English classes as far as thinking skills go, but it may have been less work since we did not have to write as much- and I had already read most of the literature for the IB courses; the teacher was a D. Lit college professor on sabbatical); AP biology and my 5th year of German.

I had signed up to take AP Chemistry (a double class like AP bio) in the 11th grade, but when the semester anatomy class was canceled I had to drop chemistry and take physics instead because nothing else would fit in my schedule.

Can you give me some idea as to how large your graduating class was? I'm curious about whether or not Stanton has ever built up its enrollment.

[jeafl]

Well, from the time you graduated until I graduated in 1995, I can tell you our class make up was significantly different than yours.  Keep in mind, you graduated in 1987 and the school was still growing.

As far as my class was concerned the school was actually shrinking.

Rubrics were still being developed, teachers were still being trained with the AP and IB curricula and more teachers with at least a Master's level of education were drawn to the school.

My first German teacher had a doctorate in English. My AP English teacher also had a doctorate and my AP biology teacher either had a master's degree was about to have one, I cannot remember which.

My AP/IB Language teacher has a JD and a Ph.D.

Isn't a JD the same level as a Ph.D or did this teacher have doctorates in two fields of study?

Stanton was an ambitious project to attract the area's brightest children with the most potential.  It would be unrealistic to expect everything to come to fruition with such a young school.

But, since Stanton did not have the pre-law or pre-med programs my 7th grade class was promised, my class was short-changed.

I like your curriculum, but I think it will be difficult to have such high stages of the sciences and mathematics.  I took three levels of Calculus-based Physics. Do you propose your high school students will be able to grasp modern physics, electromagnetic fields and waves and statistical thermodynamics?  That is heady material.

My curriculum is not meant to cover anything but freshmen-level college courses. But it will have enough of these courses to count as 2 years of college credit in almost any decent college. My objective is to cover the liberal arts requirements so the students won't have to cover them in college.

I think it's great to want to cultivate brilliant minds, but the subject matter is reserved for colleges and universities for a reason.

You make no sense. First you brag about how great Stanton's IB program is, but then you say that high school students cannot do as much college-level work as my curriculum will require.

The rest of your curriculum mirrors my academic career at Stanton.  In fact, I didn't even take Pre-Algebra and discrete math (which I'm taking this semester as a junior-level course) was introduced in Precalculus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did not take pre-algebra at Stanton either since no such course was offered, and my curriculum will not have such a course either. And what I took as discrete math in college was not included in Stanton's pre-calc.

[jeafl]

Yes, that is the IB curriculum, which is largely unchanged since 1995.  Those not in IB have to take a minimum of four AP classes.

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With or without the IB program I ended up taking AP courses for German, English lit, American history, European history and biology. At the time a lot of the AP courses also counted as IB.

[jeafl]

What about the other courses in the curriculum?  Did you not think Calculus I or II would prepare you for college by exempting you?

What about AP/IB English Language and AP/IB English Literature by exempting you from three or four classes in college?  What about AP/IB World History by exempting you from two history classes in college?  AP/IB Chemistry exempted me from the prerequisite science requirements.  AP/IB German exempted me from the foreign language requirement.

If you earn college credit in high school and thus are exempt from earning that credit in college, what additional preparation would you need?

In my upper-level college classes, even though I hadn't taken a college writing class, I was still able to earn high marks on essays because my pencil was the most used school supply...oh, and paper.

Emory's liberal arts requirements required a semester of English lit and composition, and if you did not have good writing skills you had to take a writing skills course before you could take the lit course. I only scored a 3 on the AP exam (mainly because Stanton exposed me mostly to Shakespeare and British poetry and my AP essay had to be about a novel), and Emory gave me no credit for it. But, Emory also has all freshmen take a writing test. The writing skills I learned at Stanton exempted me from taking Emory's grammar course. I did not have to take the entry-level course, but I got no college credit for having the writing skills already.

Yes, and again, I qualify that with that was your experience when Stanton was graduating its first or second class.

In addition to my 2 years of IB and 1 year of AP English lit, Stanton also required a science project with a written report every year and a research paper every year but 12th grade; the double AP bio class exempted students from the annual writing requirement.

[Viper]

Enrollment when I was there was around 1,400 I believe.

Last year was 1,536.

1,187 was SAT average last year.

Check out the year to year differences just between 2001 and 2004.

http://www.educationcentral.org/reseval/Sc....asp?School=153

[jeafl]

Enrollment when I was there was around 1,400 I believe.

Last year was 1,536.

1,187 was SAT average last year.

Check out the year to year differences just between 2001 and 2004.

http://www.educationcentral.org/reseval/Sc....asp?School=153

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When Stanton opened in 1981 with grades 7-10 we had about 1,200 7th graders.

[JaxNole]

If you earn college credit in high school and thus are exempt from earning that credit in college, what additional preparation would you need?

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That's my whole point. BU's cost of attendance my freshman year was approximately $28,000. Because I earned college credit for a full year's worth of classes, that saved my parents $28,000. I don't know anyone who would pass up that opportunity. Would you?

[JaxNole]

Can you give me some idea as to how large your graduating class was?  I'm curious about whether or not Stanton has ever built up its enrollment.

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I'm not sure of the exact number, but 336 stands out to me. The school population is freshman-heavy, because students will leave largely because of the demanding curriculum. I think overall enrollment was either 1400 or 1500, which is because the campus is not large enough to accomodate greater numbers. That's the reason Paxon School for Advanced Studies was converted to an academic magnet.

UrbanJacksonville is a fellow alum and if he ever gets around to this thread, he can offer his experience as well.

[Viper]

When Stanton opened in 1981 with grades 7-10 we had about 1,200 7th graders.

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I find that number rather rum. At 1,400 (student body population when I attended) it was almost considered overcrowded. How could it be possible to have 1,200 7th graders unless the remaining classes had fewer than 100 each?

The largest high school in Duval County is Sandalwood (I attended as well) with about 3,200 students. Stanton's campus is 1/3 the size.

1,579 is the 2005-2006 enrollment with 325 of them seniors.

"In 1981, Stanton College Preparatory School became the Duval County School System's first magnet school. Beginning with grades 7-10, and adding one grade level each succeeding year, the first senior class of 54 students graduated in 1984."

[jeafl]

That's my whole point.  BU's cost of attendance my freshman year was approximately $28,000.  Because I earned college credit for a full year's worth of classes, that saved my parents $28,000.  I don't know anyone who would pass up that opportunity.  Would you?

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You made it sound as if someone who takes a lot of AP courses in high school (such as the 8 my school will require) will not be academically or psychologically prepared for the sophomore or junior class college environment.

Assuming a student scores well enough on all 8 AP exams he would earn credit for 16 college courses- 2 years

[jeafl]

I'm not sure of the exact number, but 336 stands out to me.  The school population is freshman-heavy, because students will leave largely because of the demanding curriculum.  I think overall enrollment was either 1400 or 1500, which is because the campus is not large enough to accomodate greater numbers.  That's the reason Paxon School for Advanced Studies was converted to an academic magnet.

UrbanJacksonville is a fellow alum and if he ever gets around to this thread, he can offer his experience as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I never had a chance to see the buildings located behind Stanton's gym in the early grades. But, by the time I was in 10th grade I had classes in that building- an old auto garage that had been partitioned into classrooms. I had another class in what was the band room at one time that same year. You could easily spend 10-15 minutes of your lunch period waiting in line from 7th grade on. I don't ever remember that Stanton was not over-crowded.

I would say that most of my class left after 7th grade. None of the students I knew by name who shared the basic subjects with me were around for 8th grade. One of my best friends in 8th grade left after grade 9 and the other from 8th left after grade 10. Stanton had a large number of students that were there because their parents wanted them there, not because the students themselves wanted to be there.

[jeafl]

I find that number rather rum.  At 1,400 (student body population when I attended) it was almost considered overcrowded.  How could it be possible to have 1,200 7th graders unless the remaining classes had fewer than 100 each?

Like I just said, Stanton was always over-crowded. When I took 7th grade chorus the 7th graders were given their own teacher and another teacher took everyone from grades 8-10. The 7th graders had all of the others outnumbered by a large margin.

[JaxNole]

You made it sound as if someone who takes a lot of AP courses in high school (such as the 8 my school will require) will not be academically or psychologically prepared for the sophomore or junior class college environment.

Assuming a student scores well enough on all 8 AP exams he would earn credit for 16 college courses- 2 years

[jeafl]

No, I didn't say that at all.  I said a 16 year old would probably find it difficult to assimilate in an environment where the majority of the student population is aged 18-21.

This isn't a slight against your school.  I think it's a great curriculum, but the issues I foresee are the demands of the Calculus I-IV and Physics I-IV requirements.

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Who says a 16 year old high school graduate with 2 years' worth of college credit has to go to college right away? He could still wait until he is 18 and still graduate from college 2 years early.

Also, my overall curriculum will last 48 academic terms. With 5 academic terms per calendar year the entire program can be completed in 9.6 years. This means that students can either graduate earlier or enroll at a later age- 7.4 years instead of 5. But, at this point I am not certain that 16 terms will be enough to cover the school's Kindergarten/Elementary learning objectives. I will have to consult with teachers who have experience with lower grades before I finalize anything. I know the school will open with a middle school class, but I may delay having a Kindergarten enrollment.

[JaxNole]

Who says a 16 year old high school graduate with 2 years' worth of college credit has to go to college right away?  He could still wait until he is 18 and still graduate from college 2 years early.

Nobody is saying it's mandatory, but with a leave of absence from academia, there tends to be a loss of progression. Students could surely undertake research, study independently or travel, for example, but the structure and rigors of education are dependent on continuous engagement.

[jeafl]

Nobody is saying it's mandatory, but with a leave of absence from academia, there tends to be a loss of progression.  Students could surely undertake research, study independently or travel, for example, but the structure and rigors of education are dependent on continuous engagement.

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Then explain why so many people manage to go back to college in their 30s and 40s after spending a decade or more away from a structured academic environment?

[JaxNole]

Then explain why so many people manage to go back to college in their 30s and 40s after spending a decade or more away from a structured academic environment?

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Well, I'm almost 27 and I'm no longer a traditional student. Those who re-matriculate have an edge over teenagers for a number of reasons:

1. They have other responsibilities (e.g, families, mortgages, bills) and are prone to take college seriously

2. Most have to pay for education on their own

3. They have more of a focus than someone who graduates high school and, without a significant break, return to college.

The list can continue, but those are the main reasons that were uncovered during a social psychology class and, largely, the factors I have to deal with for not being a first-time-in-college student.

The learning curve was steep for me. After taking five years off, I started taking three classes and it was a major adjustment. Since then, I've been taking a full-time load of four classes while working full-time.

Taking a year or two off as a teenager and doing the same as an adult are different because adults have real-world experience. Someone who's only 16 and takes time off will not have had to endure responsibilities such as supporting himself through jobs or getting a taste of the real world by working 40 hours per week. The acumen just isn't there for a 16 year old. Someone that age is still developing an identity that carries over into college. Those who are in their late 20s to 40s have somewhat slowed in the development stage of behavior. Other classmates who are non-traditional and I have noticed a remarkable difference.

When I entered college at 17, that was a big difference for me. A 16 year old in college is still in the process of maturing, which isn't a factor for someone who's in thier 20s or 30s.

I skipped a grade in elementary school and even then I felt an impact. I skipped Pre-Algebra in seventh grade and I could sense the differences from the eighth graders. I was considerable shorter, I could't articulate myself the way eighth graders did and I felt like the oddball, wheras being with my seventh grade classmates, I felt like I was on the same "level".

Social skills also are a fringe benefit of being in high school until 17 or 18 and to lose that would further contribute to the "trauma" of being a freshman in college.

Again, I am not putting down your proposed curriculum. I think it wonderful to demand such mastery of complex material, but I simply cannot see how a 16 year old (one who isn't about to turn 17 the first month of college) would be suited to handle the first year without experiencing major dystopia.

[jeafl]

Well, I'm almost 27 and I'm no longer a traditional student.  Those who re-matriculate have an edge over teenagers for a number of reasons:

Like I said, success in college is not contingent upon a student entering college immediately after graduating from high school. With my curriculum you could enroll a student at the traditional age of 5, have him graduate before he turns 17 and he could have a year or so for job training before entering college.

3.  They have more of a focus than someone who graduates high school and, without a significant break, return to college.

I wouldn

[JaxNole]

It seems this thread has turned into somewhat more of a defensive one. You have your experience with Stanton and I have mine. So, I'll leave it at that. Good luck with your school. My concerns have already been expressed.

[Viper]

I'm 5'3" so neh....

[scongro]

And since my school will be a Christian school, I anticipate that my students will have a greater degree of self-control and maturity than the students in the general population will demonstrate.

I don't know about this - My cousin went to a Jesuit College, and I've never seen more drunks per capita than in any other school, and that includes the big party schools.

[jeafl]

I don't know about this - My cousin went to a Jesuit College, and I've never seen more drunks per capita than in any other school, and that includes the big party schools.

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How would middle schoolers buy alcohol?

Not once at Stanton was I ever offered so much as a cigarette. I'm not saying Stanton had no drugs or alcohol, but I never saw any. If my school can attract students that would otherwise go to Stanton, I don't expect the student body to pose any problems.

[Viper]

Honestly, I saw almost as much vice at Stanton ('92-'93) as Sandalwood ('93-'94). Common sense doesn't always follow intelligence it would seem.

[jeafl]

Honestly, I saw almost as much vice at Stanton ('92-'93) as Sandalwood ('93-'94).  Common sense doesn't always follow intelligence it would seem.

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If you saw any vice at Stanton, you must have gone looking for it.

[Viper]

Ever see a 'pound pass'? Giving a pound is when two people ball their fists and then give 5 in that manner. It is then finshed with a type of handshake. With the pound pass, one individual would have a roll of cash and the other would have drugs. The exchange is made with the handshake.

The way to tell it happened is by noticing their right hands find their pockets just before and just after the pound pass.

I saw transactions at least once a week and by more than just a few different individuals.

I saw 3 fights that year, knew of two others, watched alcohol and cigarettes get passed from one student to the next, heard plenty of talk....you didn't have to go looking for it, it was simply there as it is in all schools.