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ITP - The Rapid


torgo

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The Stop the Rapid! web site is a campaign of Kent County Families for Fiscal Responsibility, a ballot question committee which opposes the tax increase on the ballot on May 8th, 2007.

The Committee consists of the following community members:

* Jeff Steinport - Chairman

* Eric Larson, MD - Designated Record Keeper

* Brian Ebbers

* Erwin Haas, MD

* Ken Howe

* Jamie Lewis

The Stop the Rapid inititive is endorsed by the following community members:

* Bill Gelineau

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They also go by "Doctors FOR Driving" (sorry couldn't resist)

One other thing that always gets me too is that every government-provided service (water, parks, fire, police, buses, roads, whatever) requires either a user fee, a tax, or a combination of both, to make them run. If you go to the park and pay $1.50 to get in for a carload of people, it really probably costs the park $3.00 per carload to run the park, the rest is "subsidized", or the shortfall is covered, by general tax revenue. When you get your water bill, you're asked to pay $70 a month, which probably does not cover the entire operating costs of the water/sewer system, the rest is "subsidized" by general taxes or by bonds. When you ride a bus, you pay $1 per ride, and it probably costs $3 per ride to cover operating expenses, the rest is "subsidized by taxes".

When you drive on a road like the East Beltline, YOU PAY $0 to get on and off that road. When you get on 131, YOU PAY $0 to get on and off that highway. There is no user fee, IT'S 100% subsidized by taxes collected elsewhere, either through gas taxes or the general fund. Even people who never travel 131 pay a gas tax to subsidize it. I pay gas taxes to pay for I-75 in Detroit, yet I haven't driven on it in 10 years. But I understand it's an important transportation tool for the Detroit area.

So why does transit get flack for not totally covering its costs by user fees (fares), and not roads? I'd like someone to explain that one to me.

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They also go by "Doctors FOR Driving" (sorry couldn't resist)

One other thing that always gets me too is that every government-provided service (water, parks, fire, police, buses, roads, whatever) requires either a user fee, a tax, or a combination of both, to make them run. If you go to the park and pay $1.50 to get in for a carload of people, it really probably costs the park $3.00 per carload to run the park, the rest is "subsidized", or the shortfall is covered, by general tax revenue. When you get your water bill, you're asked to pay $70 a month, which probably does not cover the entire operating costs of the water/sewer system, the rest is "subsidized" by general taxes or by bonds. When you ride a bus, you pay $1 per ride, and it probably costs $3 per ride to cover operating expenses, the rest is "subsidized by taxes".

When you drive on a road like the East Beltline, YOU PAY $0 to get on and off that road. When you get on 131, YOU PAY $0 to get on and off that highway. There is no user fee, IT'S 100% subsidized by taxes collected elsewhere, either through gas taxes or the general fund. Even people who never travel 131 pay a gas tax to subsidize it. I pay gas taxes to pay for I-75 in Detroit, yet I haven't driven on it in 10 years. But I understand it's an important transportation tool for the Detroit area.

So why does transit get flack for not totally covering its costs by user fees (fares), and not roads? I'd like someone to explain that one to me.

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I don't want to give them more talk so this is my last entry of them:

This was a recent communique from the Libertarian Party of WMi.

The RAPID is coming before the tax payers of six cities in Kent County on May 5th to ask for more taxes to fund an expansion of their already inefficient bus system. This tax increase is unwarranted and will add very little value to the citizens of the area especially those in the communities outside of Grand Rapids.

The Grand Rapids public transit system (like nearly all nation wide) are inefficient and fail to perform many of their basic tasks (i.e. reduce congestion, improve commute time, decrease pollution). With a 1.3 passenger per mile carrying capacity, does it really make sense to increase its funding? With an average fuel efficiency of 3-5 mpg, these buses under perform commuters in Hummers.

Adding more stops will slightly increase ridership but not perform the basic tasks of a public transit system. Commuters value three things: time (buses average 50-75% increase to commute time), flexibility (buses are usually difficult to use to get to multiple locations requiring transfers and more time), and utility (it is difficult to transport groceries, other items in a bus). The buses fail on all three!

Finally, buses actually create more pollution than automobiles as evidenced by this 2005 US Government study. So in conclusion, vote no and tell all your friends to stop the RAPID from wasting more of your time in taxes (they come from your hard earned money which is time you could have spent with family or friends) and more of your time stuck behind one on the road or in one on your commute!

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Bill Gelineau is a Libertarian politician. I don't think he's anti-transit per se, but anti-subsidized anything.

I would also consider the gas tax a form of user fee assuming that money only goes to roads. It's a little more indirect though, you don't see the cost separate from your gas bill, so you don't really think about it. I have no idea how much it pays for or how much roads are really subsidized.

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Believe me, if I didn't like it I'm sure you'd here something snarky out of me. Why resort to going to another web forum when I could say I hated something here, on home turf. :)

Joe

That is slimy. Of course if it were you and you were against expanded mass transit joe, I personally wouldn't hold it against you. I might try to convince you otherwise. :D But part of me is glad it's not you.
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