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Smart Growth/Planning in North Carolina


monsoon

Where in NC is the best Smart Growth found?  

57 members have voted

  1. 1. Where in NC is the best Smart Growth found?

    • Asheville
      6
    • Wilmington
      1
    • Charlotte
      26
    • Greensboro
      3
    • Winston-Salem
      7
    • Raleigh
      3
    • Durham
      1
    • Chapel Hill/Caroboro
      7
    • Durham
      0
    • Other (explain)
      2


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I see that Arysley thread has degenerated to garbage on SSP. Thank goodness for SSA. If it is any consolation monsoon I agree with everything you said over there. I don't really think that much of Birkdale Village either and I am a resident of Huntersville too. Don't forget that Rosedale shows a great deal of promise too as the better way to do development.

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Some good points where made in that thread about the on SSP. (too bad and ex-moderater from here got it closed)

One of the points from that thread was the biggest problem now that North Carolina has now, is that developers are building places now that resemble new

urbanist developments but really are nothing more than repackaged strip mall development. They are still car oriented, do nothing to add to the town's character or overall development and ignore surrounding development.

For example when they built Birkdale Village, they completely ignored the 14 screen Palace theatre next door, and built a 16 screen cinema right in Birkdale village. In fact, they pretty much made sure it was difficult to get to the Palace from Birkdale. I don't think there are enough people in Huntersville to support his many screens when you include the 12 screens at Movies at the Lake. One of them is going to go out of business.

So this is an example of really bad develoment disguised as Smart Growth. I dont really think so when looking at the facts. What do you guys think? What about other developments.

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Thumper, I totally agree with your explanation. Many so-called "new urbanist" projects are simply disguised sprawling communities, although I would give them a chance to grow a bit before I can estimate the amount of "damage". Certainly, such projects are far superior to the typical sprawling communities, where the lack of sidewalks is annoying, the cul-de-sacs depress people and the facades are dominated by car-homes (=garages). New Urbanist ideas are not bad, except they do not form a continuation of the city but merely independent communities that just sit there. Of course, if several such projects flourish, and good connectivity gets established between them, we may change our views in the future, but for now we may continue to see them as sprawling communities. Smart Growth is not synonymous to New Urbanism; the latter tries to utilize the former.

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  • 2 months later...

Didnt city planners from ATL go to Charlotte to prevent Charlotte from being another ATL?

Apparently not. Charlotte seems to be making every mistake ATL did. They are allowing way too much development around I-485. Someday they will need yet another beltway. From what I've seen, the freeway is already a traffic mess.

They need to combat sprawl. Yes, Charlotte will grow, but they could definately find more responsible ways to do it.

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Regarding Asheville: Many people seem to say that Asheville has been immune to sprawling development. While it is true that Asheville has resisted the tendency to ooze subdivisions over the landscape like say, Raleigh, it's important to remember that most of that landscape is mountains, many of which are not suitable for development of any sort, forcing what development there is into the flatter areas. So, rather than sprawling into suburbs, many Ashevillites have chosen to sprawl into neighboring counties.

Then, take one look at South Tunnel Rd, and it will be painfully evident that big box and strip mall retail is alive and booming in Asheville as well. Notice how the parking lots get bigger as you move further south and the shopping centers get newer. It all culminates with the Super Wal-Mart, now under construction. Look for plans to widen Swannanoa River Rd and add more lanes to S. Tunnel due to the traffic generated by this project. Sigh. The one faintly glowing light in the sea darkness is Tunnel Rd's relative proximity to downtown.

City Council managed to turn Wal Mart down flat when they tried to build a Supercenter on Hendersonville Rd. Many residents fought tooth and nail alongside some city council members for years against the Tunnel Rd plan, but their resolve was eventually whittled down to a set of technicalities about drainage and access roads, stipulations which the developers met, and the plans were approved. I think I heard from somwhere that the precedent they set by approving the Target (which should never have gone through, IMO, since it's in an even worse location than the Wal Mart) came back and bit them. Too bad that in the end, nobody had what it took to fight the good fight say "We're sorry, you don't belong in our town. Go ruin someone else's economy."

Many people point at the Waltons and say their riches are an example of a successful business model and a great American capitalist spirit. I say they've gained their billions through exploitation, be of the minimum wage checkout clerk or the sweatshop worker in China, and at the expense of small business owners, US manufacturing jobs, and the quality of the very goods that they sell. And people just keep heading to them in droves - because there's no denying that they're a bit cheaper than everyone else. There were even people in Asheville petitioning city council and writing letters to the editors in support of the Supercenter because its discounts are the savior of the working class. When will you people realize that what you're clamoring for will be your own doom!

My only hope against Wal Mart is that they end up shooting themselves in the foot abroad. Unlikely, given their huge coffers of cash.

>descends from soapbox<

Ahh, I feel much better now.

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I've come to the conclusion that Walmarts do not devestate local economies. They just radically alter them. It forces an area to rely on chain stores which locate their businesses based on where Walmart locates. Things like restarants, dollar stores, gas stations, etc, all like to locate near walmart. This contributes to jobs and the local economy as much as anything. Walmart makes an area high traffic regardless of whether or not it was before, and this results in more growth, which is usually of the sprawly nature, and decentralized from the city's core. Now, I'm not necessarily defending walmart, but I am trying to make the point that the main shift is the locations and style of the economy, but that the economy itself is still somewhat intact. A large problem is the type of development that occurs beause of walmart, which very much counters everything that we like to see on this forum.

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  • 7 months later...

If there is any city I would love to see urban TOD it is Asheville. I think a lot of times this city gets overlooked but it's potential to be what a lot of other NC cities are not is just to great. If the focus can be on DT and inner city urban development Asheville will be the one of the southeast greatest cities. Although I did vote Charlotte becasue of the center city planning I hope that Ashville will follow with a major comprehensive study.

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If there is any city I would love to see urban TOD it is Asheville. I think a lot of times this city gets overlooked but it's potential to be what a lot of other NC cities are not is just to great. If the focus can be on DT and inner city urban development Asheville will be the one of the southeast greatest cities. Although I did vote Charlotte becasue of the center city planning I hope that Ashville will follow with a major comprehensive study.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Asheville really is a great town. (It's my hometown, sure, but I'm not just bragging.)

The only new construction projects downtown between 1980 and 2004 were the federal building and the jail. Instead, there were countless restorations and adaptive reuse projects going on, but as the historic buildings are now almost entirely restored and adapted, we're starting to see new projects happen. There are two significant ones (12 S Lexington and 21 Battery Park) under construction, a couple solid proposals, and a few more on the horizon bringing new residential, retail, and office space to the downtown area.

I'd really love to see true TOD (transit oriented development) in Asheville, but the sad truth is that Asheville's transit system consists of buses that stop running at 6:00pm. There are lots of routes and coverage is great, but since buses only run hourly and service stops so early, it's pathetic overall. They could do so much better.

I've said it before, but I'd love to see streetcars come back to Asheville, through downtown as well as some other older parts of town - like Biltmore Village, Merrimon Ave and Haywood Rd. I'd also like to see a commuter line to Hendersonville since the I26/US25 corridor is growing so explosively and traffic is getting worse. This would be perfect since the Norfolk Southern line to Hendersonville was built for heavy traffic but has only been used lightly since 2003. There's huge potential for TOD down there. Imagine stations in Flat Rock, Hendersonville, Mountain Home, Fletcher, Arden, Skyland (Gerber Village?), and Biltmore Forest, with walkable mixed use villages around each of them. With the future train station at Biltmore Village and streetcars (or coordinated buses) up Biltmore Ave to the hospitals and downtown, lots of destinations and origins would be served, and transit in Asheville would cease to be pathetic.

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