Northgate Mall

[pack-man]

HA HA!!! I don't remember Thalheimer's at Northgate. I always think of Crabtree with HB, too!

At the coast they were known as "Belk Beery"

Never understood that, just figured they were all individually owned or franchised.

[DigitalSky]

Has anything become of the former HT at Northgate Mall?

[danclever]

Has anything become of the former HT at Northgate Mall?

I believe it will be a cafeteria (C&H?).

I was hoping another grocery would take its place. As it is now, one has to drive over to North Pointe strip mall to get to Krogers, or drive up Guess Rd to get to the HT. They need more groceries in the downtown area.

[DigitalSky]

yeah I agree, Downtown Durham is at a void in grocery stores.

[NCMike1981]

It appears that another chain is closing at Northgate. The mall's Office Max closed this past Saturday during the chain's latest round of store closings. There's still one more Office Max in Durham at New Hope Commons. The blurb is the 3rd article on the link below...

Northgate Office Max Store Closed

From what I recall that store couldn't have been more then 10 years old and was built specifically for Office Max. It was added on beside the former Harris Teeter, which is soon to be a P&H Cafateria and a Guitar Center. Hopefully the mall will be able to get a decent store in the Office Max space, although I predict it will be divided up like Harris Teeter was.

[DigitalSky]

Yeah. It seems divding up old spaces is the popular thing to do

[mallguy]

So the Hecht's might be on the way out eventually as well?

What has happened to Northgate? Seemed like a decent neighborhood mall 10 or so years ago, and the Hecht's seemed new then.

Do Duke University and in-town neighborhoods not generate enough traffic to support a mall?

[NCMike1981]

The Hechts still appears new inside and out, as it's just 11 years old. In my opinion it is a nice looking store from the road, better looking then the Cary Towne Center Hechts hands down. I'm kind of concerned though because Macy's has not put the new signage in like other Triangle stores, even though I'm sure they will by September it just shows which stores are the priorites imo. I think the mall is still recovering from the Southpointe syndrome. Ten years ago the mall was probably at it's peak. Hechts had just been built, the mall got stores like Gap, American Eagle, Express, Wet Seal, the list goes on, many stores have since vacated. Plus it was still stable with all three of it's anchors in place. I heard from someone who worked at the Sears that shortly before Southpointe opened that store was one of the highest performing Sears in the Triangle. Sears looks like a blast from the past from the outside, I don't think the outside has been renovated since the store opened decades ago. Hudson Belk, which was then Belk Leggett was probably doing slightly better back then too, although I believe it had only been in the old Hechts/Thalheimers space a year or so, so sales were probably decent because of the "new" factor. I believe alot of what has happened is that the mall has lost alot of sales to Southpointe, which was this huge deal upon opening. Plus Durham has this crime perception, and since Northgate is the ~40 year old mall in an old part of town I think it's hurting them. I drove by the mall yesterday to visit my mom at work and noticed that most of the residential around the mall is kind of in bad shape, although there are pockets of old wealth scattered within a mile or two of the mall. Plus the commercial doesn't look better, except for the stuff recently built when the mall owners sold an adjacent open area to developers. The one thing that kind of helps the mall is being right off I-85, but of course the interstate is in a perpetual state of construction. Once they finish construction the mall might reap some benefits from being right off the interstate again.

On a side note I noticed it appears as if they are keeping the outside of the former Belk store pretty much the same, they just added a red triangular point to the top, which looks odd....tan brick with shiny brown stones and a red point to top it all off. Maybe they aren't done with the outside yet lol....

[mallguy]

This poor mall- did a drive-by a few days ago and I think it has hope, being along I-85 and far away from Southpoint, perhaps it can linger on as a secondary yet stable mall, like McAlister Square in Greenville (well, at least before it suddenly dropped over dead, due to its competitors both expanding and renovating at the same time) or Dutch Square in Columbia.

[NCMike1981]

An article in the Durham paper today lists some new tenants for Durham's other mall...

Next week will be a big one for Northgate openings

Let's see how long these new tenants hang around...

[bullcity76]

An article in the Durham paper today lists some new tenants for Durham's other mall...

Next week will be a big one for Northgate openings

Let's see how long these new tenants hang around...

Northgate fits well with North Durham's demographics and geography. It is a relatively long way to Southpointe and the South Square area for most North Durham residents. Outside of Southpointe related defections...Northgate has worked to reposition its tenant list and let go of under-performing Junior Anchors.

The cafeteria and theatre should be very popular along with the outdoor shopping area. Southpointe is Lexus while Northgate is Toyota. People like both but one caters to luxury buyers while the other caters to the reliable point A-to-B type person.

If the owners can convince Sears to upgrade their appearance, the mall would be even more attractive. Macy's (former Hecht's) won't hurt either.

[RaleighRob]

Northgate fits well with North Durham's demographics and geography...

True. As long as they keep Sears in there, as well as some niche places like Great Outdoor Provision Co, then they should continue to survive and not fall into the abyss that North Hills did back in the late 90s.

[DurhamDivaInRaleigh]

The cafeteria and theatre should be very popular along with the outdoor shopping area. Southpointe is Lexus while Northgate is Toyota. People like both but one caters to luxury buyers while the other caters to the reliable point A-to-B type person.

Perfect...that's me--the "Toyota" buyer. I like to go to Southpoint to eat, walk around and watch the entertainers (I saw a juggler, a magician and the Bouncing Bulldogs last time I went) and head home empty-handed.

I actually SHOP at Northgate--better deals and less crowded.

I think there could have been some hope for South Square, too, if it hadn't been torn down. I think the new stuff looks SOOOOOOOOOOOO funny--it looks really low down into the ground.

[roly]

I had to join this forum just so I could add to this interesting discussion. I live near Northgate Mall and have found it to be very convenient. I love older neighborhoods and mostly-car-free life. Someone above was correct, I think, in saying that Durham is a pretty compact city, at least the older part.

Yesterday I went to Northgate specifically to buy some clothes at Old Navy and found that it was closed! This was very depressing for me, particularly as the last few years have seen more and more of my reasons to go there disappearing -- first the Gap, then the Harris Teeter, then the Rack Room Shoes, then the Office Depot (or Office Max?). Now with the Old Navy gone I have fewer and fewer reasons to go there. I have never seen any crime or felt at all in danger at Northgate (I think some people are just afraid of all the brown skins). But of course there has been some crime and the response took some time to make a difference. Now there are signs posted on the entrance doors warning against "gang activity" within the mall -- not exactly something that a "security mom" from Cary wants to see! But IMHO, those most in danger are probably the teenage "thugs" who bring the danger in -- i.e., the danger they bring is largely to themselves.

On one side of Northgate Mall is Walltown, a slightly impoverished African American neighborhood. On another is Trinity Park, a wealthy one (though not as wealthy as its side adjacent to Duke). Such is Durham. I have seen few other big malls situated within walking distance of so many people, especially disadvantaged people.

I hate driving to Southpoint, or going into that car-only sprawl that is South Durham and points beyond, but sadly it seems that I will have less and less choice not to. Hopefully once the endless work on I-85 is finished things will improve. Perhaps the new movie theaters will help also -- they certainly will be the only ones in north Durham after the closing of the osbolete theater on Guess Road. I personally think they ought to get rid of at least some of the forbidding parking stuctures. Perhaps the Guitar Center is harbinger of a new kind of retailer, though I fear they are going to drive the (even more centrally located) Music Loft, a locally owned store, out of business.

[DurhamDivaInRaleigh]

Call me crazy, but I have always really been drawn to that area near Northgate. I hope the area will grow in a positive direction too. I grew up over near Streets at Southpoint, and later the Hope Valley area, but something about the Northgate/Trinity Park area has so much character.

If my "master plan" goes well, I will move back to Durham one day and I may consider that area of town.

[ncwebguy]

The new movie theater probably seemed like a good idea when the decision was made -- Southpoint has a theater, and the next closest theater is Brier Creek. But it may draw the same crowds (and the problems they bring) that Willowdale used to attract. Brier Creek serves some of this crowd. (I didn't pay good money for your movie commentary!) The movie selection at Northgate will determine what crowds it will attract as well.

Walltown's residents are poor but not bad. And they can't afford to shop at most of the stores in Northgate. I was approached several times for money in the pedestrian-unfriendly sea of parking, especially at the Sears end. But I blew that off as Durham's "charm." The gangs that hang out at Walltown Park have always been a problem. After I graduated from NCSSM, several people were attacked while walking by there the next year. The presence of lots of residents nearby does not by itself make an area walkable.

When I went to Northgate after my five year reunion, I parked by the police substation that used to be near Ruby Tuesdays. While parked there, someone keyed my car. I went back a few times when the area's only Old Navy - and later A&W - were there. But those distinctions disappeared eventually, and now both are closed. Trying to get help in that Hecht's location was a hopeless cause.

I know the mall is locally owned, but I won't shop with the lessened store variety and the presence of several safer shopping options in the area.

[RaleighRob]

But it may draw the same crowds (and the problems they bring) that Willowdale used to attract. Brier Creek serves some of this crowd. (I didn't pay good money for your movie commentary!)

Hah! I know what you mean. That's why I like going to Mission Valley mostly. There's rarely that kinda crowd there. Just be prepared for "Geeks-en-masse" whenever a science fiction movie plays. When "Serenity" showed there, I felt like I had just stepped into a sci-fi convention.

[ncwebguy]

Being near State and Centennial Campus (Red Hat HQ) makes that theater a techie draw.

Sometimes crowds like that are good, especially during something like Snakes on a Plane. But loud cheering for the bad guys during Miami Vice, "Look! Wolverine has claws! He's going to mess someone up!" or "Don't go in there!" is not really necessary.

[NCMike1981]

Aww I didn't know Old Navy closed down....that's a huge gap near Sears....I guess they'll have to divide it into more small store space or something

[NCMike1981]

C&H Cafeteria won't open Friday

[NCMike1981]

C&H Cafeteria opens today at Northgate

Durham will finally get a cafeteria again, plus the article also mentions how Compare Foods will enter the Durham market with a store in the old Winn Dixie off Avondale Drive in the K-Mart Plaza or whatever they are calling it nowadays. We'll see if the shopping center can find a tenant for the old K-mart and Carmike Cinemas one of these years...

[NCMike1981]

Here are some pictures courtesy of the Northgate Mall website featuring the new movie theater recently opened on the new open air plaza in the former Hudson Belk location. I'd like to point out that the back of the theater, located in the 3rd picture still reeks of the former department store. One of these days I'll make it out to the new plaza to see what's going on...

Pictures of the Phoenix 10 Movie Theater

[JDC]

I think Northgate should take a step in the direction of Cameron Village or North Hills: Turn the mall inside out and maybe build some condos. It might even help revitalize the immediate surroundings, attracting bigger name restaurants, hotels, etc.

[DurhamDivaInRaleigh]

I think Northgate should take a step in the direction of Cameron Village or North Hills: Turn the mall inside out and maybe build some condos. It might even help revitalize the immediate surroundings, attracting bigger name restaurants, hotels, etc.

That's a REALLY good idea, but funny, too, because from my understanding from my dad (he was born and raised in Durham) it started off as an inside-out mall, and they enclosed it. I guess things go full circle!

[bullcity76]

That's a REALLY good idea, but funny, too, because from my understanding from my dad (he was born and raised in Durham) it started off as an inside-out mall, and they enclosed it. I guess things go full circle!

They had a movie theater back in the day also...markets change. And the locally-owned tries to adapt and change to survive vs. malls like South Square which was doomed b4 Southpointe...

Northgate is taking the Hybrid Southpointe model with an indoor/outdoor area. The owners think condos are an interesting idea but they don't have expertise in that area. Plus they have their hands full redeveloping and merchandising the mall.

BTW, the cafeteria has been packed every day that I have passed by and the theater seems to be doing ok. I some concerns about it becoming too teen-oriented (I know how we used to be :-)...), but the prices (around $8...or is that the going rate?) will take care of that concern.