Jump to content

Lansing Off Topic


hood

Recommended Posts

Where do we see this loss in residents? Very few areas of town have abandoned homes (at least boarded up ones). My neighborhood, and those that I frequent seem jam packed. I'm kinda confused because we hear about population loss, but it is not really that easy to see first hand, IMO.

Just about every older city in the United States, and, at least their inner-city cores if they are those that annexed their suburbs, are still losing people, and many since 1950. It's not some new trend, so it shouldn't be surprising. The key here is that Lansing is finally starting to level out on its population loss, which unlike some other cities only began after the 1980's. And, while these new urban living options will bolster downtown, it's not those people that Lansing are losing. It's a middle class with kids disllusioned (and sometimes uninformed) about the school district. It is the last wall that needs to be broken through before we can verse the trend. Lansing is definitely making strides with the magnet program and slowly but surely coming to grip with some of the other real problems, and the last thing that has to be torn down in the negative perception that keeps people out. The economy has something to do with it, too, but Lansing's largest jobs loss days are behind it, IMO, as there isn't much left in the city proper in terms of manufacturing that will be leaving anytime soon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 501
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

As I have said before, the perception of the Lansing School District is more justified than you think. I would not advise parents to send their children to Lansing if they want to take more hands-off approach to parenting or if they prize education and don't care much about social skills or diversity. In order for a child to go to the Lansing School district and be successful they have to have strong willed parents who stay on top of things and can ensure that their children aren't negatively effected by the things going on around them, or the child themselves have to be highly self-motivated, both those things are a rarity these days. However if a parent is willing to be tough and keep a close eye on their kids one thing Lansing has in its favor is that it is diverse and probably offers a much more real-world experience for children. As a product of the Lansing School District, I realize I could of turned out much better by going to a suburban school district, but I would probably be far less prepared for the "real world," overall I think I'm better off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

With all of that I said above, I still don't believe Lansing lost as many people as the census said over the 90's, and I fault the mayor for not challenging the numbers like other cities did. In fact, looking back at the estimates from 1990 to 1999, the census actually projected the city had stagnanted at 127,000 (+.5% or something like that). Then, they went an released numbers showing a -6% loss. I think this current mayor should challenge the numbers. Maybe, I'll even email him about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I highly doubt that the census numbers are off, I beleive that the extimates are off quite often. The census is very in-depth, they end up going to peoples houses who don't respond by mail, the chances of it being wrong by any significant amount are slim to none.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are very wrong, on this, and particularly on the estimates. The estimates don't take into account immigration, and they don't actually count for them. Just to show you how bad the estimates can be, they predicted Chicago to lose 100,000 people over the 1990's, but the city had been saying the complete opposite. When they did the numbers, they actually found an increase of 100,000 or so, and it was probably higher than that. The census is notorious for undercounts, and have been challeneged by quite a few cities (i.e. NYC, St. Louis,...) who all won and got their population upped to more accurately reflect the change. The census routinely undercounts most places, and no one knows an area better than the local agencies. Problem is, the Lansing area doesn't have any firm tracking the local population change, so we have to trust the census.

Edited by Lmichigan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the estimates are not accurate, I was responding to what you siad about not thinking Lansing lost as many people as they said in the 1990's. They estimated in 1999 that lansing was at like 123,000 or somewhere around there, when the real numbers came out lansing was at 119,000 so we lost more than what they predicted, this time around I think it could easily go either way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I highly doubt that the census numbers are off, I beleive that the extimates are off quite often. The census is very in-depth, they end up going to peoples houses who don't respond by mail, the chances of it being wrong by any significant amount are slim to none.

Well it was off by at least 1 person in 2000 because I filled out a short form census while I was at school in arizona and my mom put me on her long form back in Michigan. I don't remember all the details but I figured out that I was counted twice and they never caught it, I think because she didn't know my S.S. # or something.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that the estimates are not accurate, I was responding to what you siad about not thinking Lansing lost as many people as they said in the 1990's. They estimated in 1999 that lansing was at like 123,000 or somewhere around there, when the real numbers came out lansing was at 119,000 so we lost more than what they predicted, this time around I think it could easily go either way.

Actually, the 1999 projection was actually a gain of about couple of hundred people, or so. I'll try and find it, but they predict no loss. I don't doubt Lansing lost over the 90's, but IMO, it was nowhere near the 8,000+ the census said it was. That kind of loss in a city this small would have yielded large scale abandonment, which just isn't the case.

Edited by Lmichigan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, the 1999 projection was actually a gain of about couple of hundred people, or so. I'll try and find it, but they predict no loss. I don't doubt Lansing lost over the 90's, but IMO, it was nowhere near the 8,000+ the census said it was. That kind of loss in a city this small would have yielded large scale abandonment, which just isn't the case.

A little news update, with some good and not so good news, and since it's just a news blurb I can post the whole thing:

Niowave may buy Walnut Elementary School building

Published June 22, 2006

Niowave - the high-tech new company run by scientists from MSU's Cyclotron lab - may buy the old Walnut Elementary School.

Lansing school board Vice President Hugh Clarke said today the school board voted to sell the building to Niowave during a meeting this week.

A deal with Douglas Patino, who was going to buy Walnut, has apparently fallen through, he said.

Meanwhile, the high-bid buyer for Lansing schools' Verlinden property may be considering backing out of the deal, Clarke said .

He said Mark Rodberg, a Florida businessman who offered $750,000, raised concerns during the inspection process, but it's still unclear whether they can be resolved.

For more on this story read Friday's State Journal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I said it in the beginning that the Rodberg guy was flakey. Fortunately, Niowave still seems committed with bringing high-tech jobs to Lansing, and it's good they are looking at the vacant schools. Walnut will be a perfect fit for them. I'm very excited to see these schools not sitting empty too long, as I feared they would sit and rot and become eyesores. So far, of the what, dozen or so schools that have been closed over the past decade or so, most are occupied by businesses, and good businesses, at that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BTW, the Greenhouse Bistro either officially reopened today, or will open tomorrow at their new home across from the Arbaugh Building. This business moved down from Michigan Avenue, where they shared a building with a florist shop. BTW, the lofts at the new building have been rented out, I think.

http://www.greenhousebistro.net/

Edited by Lmichigan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, the 1999 projection was actually a gain of about couple of hundred people, or so. I'll try and find it, but they predict no loss. I don't doubt Lansing lost over the 90's, but IMO, it was nowhere near the 8,000+ the census said it was. That kind of loss in a city this small would have yielded large scale abandonment, which just isn't the case.

The city does have a lot of rental vacancies, especially on the east side after schools out for the summer. I think that many of the current rental houses in Lansing itself weren't rentals in the 1980's, many were still occupied by the same people that built them.

BTW, the lofts at the new building have been rented out, I think.

Yup, they are all rented out, they had a news story on it a couple weeks ago, either in the Pulse or LSJ.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just an update, Mr. Green of the Lansing PSD told me the other day that 8 of the 9 condos at phase I of Printer's Row are sold out, and 2 units of phase II have already been pre-sold. I guess it proves location isn't everything, because Cherry Hill is definitely somewhere where I'd pass buy in its current shape.

Edited by Lmichigan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you want, you can upload the photos directly to the website, that way they will display inline, without having to click on them. The upload link is located in the bottom left of the screen. Thanks for the Sparrow Hospital addition.

Another way you can add articles is by searching for them, and then you will be provided for a link to create the article. Try it out!

Edited by jaredw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Google Maps has FINALLY updated the Lansing area. Just a few weeks ago, the only part of the city visible on a zoom was the southwest side. Now, they have nearly the whole city as well as the eastern metro (to Meridian Township). They arae also some of the newest aerials of the area in years. Judging by the project on a particular project, I can tell they were taken in the fall of last year.

Edited by Lmichigan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, it really is terrible that east lansing is letting the northern teir sprawl so much. i'm all for development, and i like to see that there is medium density being placed up that way, but this is not an excuse. the residential, OK, that could stay, as that is part of what happens when cities grow in the US, they grow outwards until there is no more space to grow. But the offices should have been at least persuaded to build in downtown east lansing. take a look at the northern teirs office parks and imagine if they would have been put in the cbd of east lansing. The Independent Bank headquarters could be a mid to high rise, considering it wouldn't have as large a footprint. the 5/3 bank could be a mid to high rise for the same reason. the msufcu could be a mid to high rise, also in a more reasonable location considering their audience.

downtown east lansing could have plenty more people during 9-5 if they would have persuaded the offices to come downtown.

Edited by jaredw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know, it really is terrible that the east lansing is letting the northern teir sprawl so much. i'm all for development, and i like to see that there is medium density being placed up that way, but this is not an excuse. the residential, OK, that could stay, as that is part of what happens when cities grow in the US, they grow outwards until there is no more space to grow. But the offices should have been at least persuaded to build in downtown east lansing. take a look at the northern teirs office parks and imagine if they would have been put in the cbd of east lansing. The Independent Bank headquarters could be a mid to high rise, considering it woulding have as large a footprint. the 5/3 bank could be a mid to high rise for the same reason. the msufcu could be a mid to high rise, also in a more reasonable location considering their audience.

downtown east lansing could have plenty more people during 9-5 if they would have persuaded the offices to come downtown.

Don't you think they want a little high-tax revenue development outside of their DDA though?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, I can see where they are coming from, but I think that they should have tried to get them to build in downtown. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought they were giving incentives to developing in the northern tier. how about giving those same incentives to developing in the dda? the expanding interest in the northern tier will hurt the cbd of east lansing. every new business that pops up over there gives just another reason for people to not need to visit the cbd. as east lansing is shifting and looking for more residential in their downtown, they may also want to have office space so people could live within walking distance to work, besides MSU employees.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the city gives incentives regardless of where they decide to build, so it's not that the city is encouraging them to build in the northern tier, but as you know, most companies want their own sprawled lands or campuses. The northern tier is growing so much around Lake Lansing because direct freeway access is a huge plus in modern business. Downtown East Lansing is out of the way in terms of freeway access, and banks and the like like huge frontage, personal parking...

It's just a sign of the times, and every city struggles with it. America has been sprawling since at least the 50's, and it's not slowing down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't forget a HUGE one, cost of land. Undeveloped land is almost always cheaper than buying an older building and starting over. Undeveloped land is less likely to have environmental concerns (but not always). I would love to see more urban revitalization, but the economics and zoning ordinances are heavily slanted towards sprawl.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whats really sad is that we are seeing more and more banks and insurance companies locate in the suburbs. those were the two types of companies that would take great pride in building a large downtown building, they were always battling for the tallest, grandest building in the city.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it has made money for the past year or two, not much, I think something like $100,000. Also, Michigan Fest did just fine before they changed the location, it had much better acts and only cost $20 per person for the whole event. Common Ground is something I have no interest in at all, they want a ridiculous amount of money for old washed up acts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought it has made money for the past year or two, not much, I think something like $100,000. Also, Michigan Fest did just fine before they changed the location, it had much better acts and only cost $20 per person for the whole event. Common Ground is something I have no interest in at all, they want a ridiculous amount of money for old washed up acts.

I guess a one night ticket is $30. A full pass is like $75. Seems like bad pricing if you ask me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's more than bad pricing. As has already been said, save for a few good acts, the majority of the acts seem like something you may find at a state fair, and many times worse. Making it a bit more contemporary would do a lot to justify the prices of the tickets.

And, yes, the event has been making money the past few years (two, I think), but barely. Still, as has been said before, it takes quite a few years to make these kind of events profitable, and I don't see Common Ground going away, but it could be SO much better than it has been. Maybe, they'll be able to make enough money to pull in the really big names.

I still miss RiverFest, though. It wasn't a music event, but something unique.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.