Why I like -- and dislike Nashville & Memphis (II)

[sleepy]

Great topic, i've been dying to put my 2 cents in but I think William was right on with his pros and cons for both cities so i'm not sure how much I have to add.

[Nashvillain]

My comment about John Calipari was just a joke and has more to do with his personality and relationship with the media.

UT mens' basketball stinks.

[Clobber]

My comment about John Calipari was just a joke and has more to do with his personality and relationship with the media. 

UT mens' basketball stinks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gotta admit, though, he's great for the university.

[Clobber]

Whether or not Memphis is past its prime depends on whether or not you think its problems can be solved, or at least mitigated.

[it's just dave]

So, tell me guys, who here has lived in Nashville most of your lives? I really don't know and am curious. There seems to be so few of "us" out there. I was 18 months old when my family moved my chubby, little baby butt back here in 1954 (yeah, and I'm balding, too, so what...lol). Getting off the subject of Memphis, but keeping Memphis very much in this conversation, as what I plan to say applies just as much to them as it does us.

I get as just as excited as anyone about the new Nashville. The changes are nothing short of phenomenal, steadily changing the face of the city I grew up in. The elementary school I attended has been replaced with a new fancy building. The neighborhood pharmacy I worked in starting when I was 16 making hamburgers, shakes and delivering prescriptions is now a take out pizza place as the chains ate the little guys alive. The high school I attended was razed for a park. Opryland is gone. The interstates aren't two lanes each side anymore with grassy medians, but giant behemoths of chocking fumes and speed. I worked at the old airport while in college. Of course, it's gone now, replaced by the slick terminal we have now. I lived in Hillsboro Village when I could walk to the H.G. Hills grocery (now a fancy entrance to Vanderbilt Medical Center), the Woolworth's, now a sports bar, the laundromat, now a bar, the movies at the Belcourt (thank goodness that's been saved), to my neighbors houses which are now trendy little boutiques and bars, the drug store which is now a trendy women's clothing boutique called Posh' the Jones Pet Store where I could look at the birds and the puppies, now a trendy coffee house called fido, and I could go on and on. It's all trendy, it's all slick, it's all clean and pretty just like the people who visit. My other neighborhood grocery store where I knew all the clerks and could shop alongside the likes of members of Dr. Hook, Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, the REAL Luke Duke (Tom Wopat, who was my neighbor) and all the characters comprising the glorious Music Row area of the 70s and 80s. The homogenized slickness of the MBA hadn't taken over then. A few true rhinestones added to the aura of the area. The large dry cleaners that is now the home of new art galleries, studios, boutiques, causing the property values to skyrocket and make the neighborhood unaffordable to those people who've lived nearby for 50 years. 12th Avenue South, where the only thing to visit then was the vaccum cleaner shop and an old family bakery, now utterly refitted to house boutique after boutique, coffee house after coffee house...and more beautiful people and expensive cars. West End, my stomping grounds for so long. My landmarks are disappearing before my very eyes. Apartment buildings where my friends and I hung out are gone. The convenience store where I bought gas is gone. My Captain D's of those days will soon be a Starbucks. The Amoco station where I had my cars fixed has been replaced by another Starbucks, Atlanta Bread, Borders, P.F. Changs, Flemings, Marriott.... Rotier's is still there, thank goodness. The lake at Centennial Park had a ring road, and I'm not sure if the magnificent landscaping and 1700 new trees have done much more than gentrify an urban park that had a distinct personality back in the day when my friends and I could park by the lake and chat all afternoon without being rundown by the rollerbladers. The other neighborhoods where my buddies lived that were once just large old houses are now the fodder of Architectural Digest. No more skipping over the broken step to get inside and listen to our music. No more broken cars in the back. Even landmarks like housing projects that made up, as bad as they were, your landmarks when driving are either gone, or going down fast. Downtown was seedy and very, very interesting. So many things are gone, I can't begin to remember them all. Sleepy, the Krispy Kreme, Krystal, late nights on West End. Ireland's, Lum's, Cumberland Jockey Club, the things that a wide-eyed post adolescent in the early 70s found daunting, but easy going enough to cut his teeth on in discovering what nightlife and the darker side of growing up was all about.

My only purpose in this little trip down memory lane is that with all the changes, with all the explosive growth, don't you sometimes just miss the way things were sometimes. I know I do. It hit me downtown the other day that many things I was so accustomed to looking at, those things that defined home for me, are gone and will never, ever be back. One thing about being as old as I am, I am in some regards very young, because my mom and I talk about this and she certainly remembers much more than I, is that I've seen my town go from a sleepy hamlet of sorts (well....to me) to something else. I really, really like what's going on, don't get me wrong, at all. Anyone who was familiar with Nashville of the 70s might as well be remembering Butte, Montana, because what's happening here now is transforming the city into one earlier residents and visitors have never even seen before. If you look closely, you can see some remnants, but I suggest you hurry.

Even in my Inglewood neighborhood which has escaped modernity for the most part, changes are afoot. There's a house near me, a beautiful old two-story farmhouse on 15 acres adjacent to the rapidly expanding Briley Parkway (unbelieveable in this area), which at one time housed a museum for the late country singer Jim Reeves. The house was begun in 1790 and has been part of my life all my life. As I stopped there today to take a few pictures outside the No Trespassing signs I couldn't help but be a bit sad that Home Depot is finalizing plans to build there. Their engineers have determined the house can't be saved, or even moved. A little bit of me died today...but I'll get over it, and accept the fact that I won't have to drive to that dreadful Rivergate store forever when I need lightbulbs. We can't keep it all, and have it all at the same time, I suppose. So, for whatever it's worth, guys, take a good hard look around you, take pictures of what you see, plant your heads with all those things you remember about where you are because when you blink your eyes you'll discover. You aren't in Kansas, anymore.

I know, that was kind of weird, but I'm tired. Good night.

[sleepy]

Yeah, Dave, I think most people old enough see all that.

At the same time, given how old I am, and you too, don't you sort of wonder when people say that "any place" has changed so much. Usually, that means it's changed a lot since they were a kid. And that could be as recently as 5 yr. ago.

In other words, I've talked to 20 yr. olds in Memphis who swear the city's changed dramatically since they were 15. From their perception, no doubt that's true, but from the perception of someone older, it hasn't changed that much.

You know what I mean?

[it's just dave]

I know what you mean, and that may be true in many places, but Nashville's metamorphosis is so dramatic, I can't imagine anyone of any age saying that. And I'm almost talking about since last week, not 5 years, 10 years, 30 years, but...maybe since yesterday. The changes over 30 years or so plodded along at a reasonable rate with much staying the same with the exception of the occasional new road, new building, new shopping center or subdivision...but now? Zoom. Give us 12 more months, then try to get down here for a visit..and let me be your guide. Much of what has been happening lately are ground level rumblings, but soon, very soon, when the verticality begins, it'll all become evident. Hold on to your hats.

[cdarr]

Not sure who John Calipari is a tool of, but his w/l record at Memphis is 93-39, he's graduated 100% of seniors this year, and Memphis has consistently been in the top 10 in NCAA attendance (except for last year's collapse, lol).  UT is scared to play them--again--wiggling out of the contract. lol  Vandy will play them, to its credit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The attendance drop last year was due to a athletic dept. screw-up. Everybody in the NCAA reports paid attendance (i.e. tickets sold) and UofM has always done that too. Last year, somebody in the ticket office turned in the turnstile counts!!!

[smeagolsfree]

One thing I have noticed in the conversation is the politics of each city has not been brought up much. If you look at the state flag, the stars represent the 3 grand divisions of the state, East, Middle, and West. I am from the Tri-cities originally, and there is the same animosity between East and Middle TN., and even more so between East and West TN.. The politics of the east is in large part conservative, where as the politics of Middle TN. (Nashville) is balanced at about 50/50, and of course West TN. (Memphis) is very liberal. Growing up in East TN., we did not even have the perception that Memphis was even part of the State of Tennessee. We had more in common with people from SW. VA. than the people in other parts of the State. There was and still is little in common such as race, terrain, politics, economics, etc. We were the ones that were looked on as hillbillies from both Nashville and Memphis. Another reason for the differance is that as I was growing up I never went to Memphis because of the distance. It was closer to go to Washington D.C. than to go to Memphis and rarely did I ever meet anyone from Memphis. I have spent a little time in Memphis, and there are parts of Memphis I dislike and parts of Nashville I dislike as well. Every city has its negative points and we cannot let the negative influence us on the good points. Being from east Tennessee we looked on Nashville as being all middle TN, and Memphis as being all West TN. That is why I generalize and associate Nashville w/ middle TN. and Memphis w/ west TN. There was even bias between parts of east TN. We even said we were from upper East Tn. instead of just East TN. We almost broke from the entire state and made our own called the State of Franklin. Another interesting fact is that the extreme part of N.E. TN. was pro union in the civil war, which further widened that gap with the rest of the State. I know this is suppose to be about Nashville and Memphis, but I think these points have to be made to understand how deep the origin of the animosity goes throughout the entire State. That is in part, the reason there is the a pride gap (my city is better than your city) between Memphis and Nashville, but also the rest of the State.

[TennBear]

One thing I have noticed in the conversation is the politics of each city has not been brought up much. If you look at the state flag, the stars represent the 3 grand divisions of the state, East, Middle, and West. I am from the Tri-cities originally, and there is the same animosity between East and Middle TN., and even more so between East and West TN.. The politics of the east is in large part conservative, where as the politics of Middle TN. (Nashville) is balanced at about 50/50, and of course West TN. (Memphis) is very liberal. Growing up in East TN., we did not even have the perception that Memphis was even part of the State of Tennessee. We had more in common with people from SW. VA. than the people in other parts of the State. There was and still is little in common such as race, terrain, politics, economics, etc. We were the ones that were looked on as hillbillies from both Nashville and Memphis. Another reason for the differance is that as I was growing up I never went to Memphis because of the distance. It was closer to go to Washington D.C. than to go to Memphis and rarely did I ever meet anyone from Memphis. I have spent a little time in Memphis, and there are parts of Memphis I dislike and parts of Nashville I dislike as well. Every city has its negative points and we cannot let the negative influence us on the good points. Being from east Tennessee we looked on Nashville as being all middle TN, and Memphis as being all West TN. That is why I generalize and associate Nashville w/ middle TN. and Memphis w/ west TN. There was even bias between parts of east TN. We even said we were from upper East Tn.  instead of just East TN. We almost broke from the entire state and made our own called the State of Franklin. Another interesting fact is that the extreme part of N.E. TN. was pro union in the civil war, which further widened that gap with the rest of the State. I know this is suppose to be about Nashville and Memphis, but I think these points have to be made to understand how deep the origin of the animosity goes throughout the entire State. That is in part, the reason there is the a pride gap (my city is better than your city) between Memphis and Nashville, but also the rest of the State.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Smeagol,

You have a few of your thoughts a little confused. For one, the state of Franklin was prior to the founding of the state of Tennessee.

Yes, East Tennessee did thnk of spliting from the remainder of the state during the War Between the States. East Tennessee was Republican and had no slave owners, however, the railroad was too important to the South to have East Tennessee seccede.

I do not know that I would count Memphis and West Tennessee as Liberal. And as far as historically, Middle Tennessee was very Pro-Democratic. West Tennessee was the swing region between East Tennessee Republican and Middle Tennessee Democratic. Parts of East Tennessee could also be considered Liberal and Democratic. There is a portion of Chattanooga that has been traditionally Democratic. Memphis Inner-city and Northwestern Tennessee have been traditionally Democratic, with the Eastern suburbs of Memphis being more Republican. I would say that Memphis and all of Tennessee is like most of the South becoming more Republican. The Republican Party has taken on the general appearance of what the South portion of the Democratic Party had been prior to the 70's.

I do agree that most people would associate most of West Tennessee with Memphis, if they are from elsewhere and the same for Nashville and Middle Tennessee. East Tennessee has three points sense none of the three, Knoxville, Tri-Cities (Quad can't forget Elizabethton), or Chattanooga has come to be large enough to overwhelm the other two.

One thing that makes Memphis seem so distant from Tri-Cities, is that Bristol is closer to the border with Canada than the city of Memphis.

[sleepy]

^Historically--up until the 60's anyway--both middle and west TN were solidly democratic. I don't think either one was more than the other.

I think it's only recently that west TN has become something of a swing area between the east and the middle, although I would suspect that Kerry for example probably won a slight majority of the popular vote in both middle and west TN, and was overwhelmed in east TN.

[Rural King]

Off topic but needed discourse at this point IMO:

My breakdown of West Tennessee politics-

Democratic - populistic and socially conservative - even in most of Memphis. In modern politics, esp. in the last 50 years it has served as the swing region in statewide state and federal elections, while being steadfast Democratic on the local level.

West Tennessee when it comes to the legislature is the traditional core of the Democratic Party leadership, and thus of the House and Senate, but that power is of course shared pretty fairly with the traditionally heavy democratic Middle Tennessee region and the outpost districts out in East Tennessee.

West Tennessee, along with Middle Tennessee, House and Senate seats are becoming increasingly competative and are no longer locked safe seats for Dems decided by the party primary, esp. in the Senate. Almost all seats now have Repulican opponents in every election cycle and most counties now have organized Republican Parties (a new development over the last 10-15 years). At one time Republicans ran as independents do to lack of political parties on the local levels and in hopes of scoring better at the polls.

Another point of intersest is that the House Minority Leader(s) have been a West Tennessean for about the last 15 years.

[southsideJ]

I have been reading this whole thread this morning, so my response is directed to some older postings.

Memphis is the coolest city in Tennessee. It seems, though, that when people list its weaknesses, people note that it is very black and very poor. This seems ridiculous to me b/c the very reason Memphis is cool is b/c it is so black. It is the african-american roots of memphis-- the bar-b-cue, the blues and rock-n-roll, the grittiness of it that make it cool.

Nashville is probably the sharpest city in Tennessee. It seems to have more skyscrapers, a couple of pro teams (one of the best things, though, is the thriving diversity, esp in south Nashville--for example where there once were cowboy hat and boot shops on Murfreesboro Rd, there are now international markets and grocery stores).

The great things about both are that they have both been stigmatized in the past and yet continue to grow into great cities. Really, Memphis and Nashville are grwowing up together and I think the healthy competition between the two really helps push both along, kinda like Lipscomb and Belmont Univerisities in Nashville. As the two fiercely compete to out-do the other, they both really improve themselves more than they would have alone.

Also, I don't understand how one can say that Nashville hasn't been stigmatized. We get this reputation for being a bunch of white hicks and hillbilies running around in cowboy hats. I have lived in Nashville for almost twenty years and I run into someone in a cowboy hat probably a few times a year--and they usually seem rather out of place, drawing stares.

Sleepy mentioned Nashville being the whitest MSA in the south, and I know you weren't mentioning that as fact or anything but that seems to be the going perception of Nashville out there so here is some data from the 2000 census:

MSA population profile

Nashville-1,231,311

977,923=79% white

191,876=16% black

19,955= 1.6% asian

19,710=1.6 'other'

Memphis-1,135,614

600,597=53% white

492,531=43% black

15,854=1.4%asian

12,658=1.1%'other'

Charlotte-1,499,293

1,103,796=74%white

307,886=21%black

28,373=2% asian

34,434=2% 'other'

Tampa Bay-2,395,997

1,986,503=83% white

244,457=10% black

45,022=1.9% asian

63,557=2.6% 'other'

Indianapolis-1,607,486

1,319,008=82% white

223,974=14% black

19,732=1.2% asian

20,355=1.3% 'other'

St.Louis-2,603,607

2,037,369=78% white

476,716=18% black

37,118=1.4% asian

13,485 =-1% 'other'

Columbus-1,540,157

1,251,842=81%white

206,136=13%black

36,505=2.4% asian

12,343=-1% 'other'

I know those last few aren't southern cities, but I think they put the numbers in perspective. Chattanooga and Knoxville are, of course, a higher percentage white than Nashville as well.

[satalac]

So, tell me guys, who here has lived in Nashville most of your lives? I really don't know and am curious. There seems to be so few of "us" out there.

i'm 22 (yes dave, i'm a baby haha) and was born and raised in nashville (and if you ask both sets of grandparents i was raised in jackson and knoxville also ). the biggest changes i've seen in nashville is the southern part. of course this is where i live, so any changing that goes on, i've seen it. the section from nippers corner to cool spring has simply exploded. i remember when nipper's corner was nipper's nursery and that was it. no gas stations, no walgreen, no starbucks, no strip malls. just trees and road. i also remember when the drive down 65 was just that. a drive. now you are surrounded by subdivisions and the sprawl that is cool springs. i've also witnessed the nissan and saturn plants take off. and then there is downtown. wow, it is exploding with things to do and see. i've seen the batman building built, the stadium and arena built. the whole transformation of the sobro area. there is just too much to mention in my relatively short 10-15 years that i remember about nashville.

[smeagolsfree]

Hey Rural

I did not realize I worded the Part about the State of Franklin the way I did. I do know my history, I just mispoke. Alot of the comments that I made were as I was a kid growing up there. You do re-enforce the fact that there is not much in common between East and West TN. In recent years the politics have gone crazy. I never used the words Democrat or Republican in those statements. There are conservative and liberal factions in both parties. I was trying to generalize old values, not new ones. In recent years we have no idea of how politics will turn out in this state. I think that most of the urban areas of the state are more liberal than the rural. I was also speaking of Memphis being the population center of W. TN in a geralization. BTW there is not a whole lot in Elizabethton to forget. (just kidding in case there is anyone from Elizabethton). It is almost part of Johnson City now. I was mainly talking about N.E.TN. in my comments. The real surprise up there is the amount of growth there has been in Morristown and in Greeneville. I'll probably make everyone angry with me. Oh well, use to it.

[mandrws1]

I agree with this statement for the most part...I think Memphis gets a bad rap as being a city of "poor blacks" when in fact blacks in Memphis aren't much worse off than in other parts of the country...especially when incomes are adjusted for cost of living.  The problem for Memphis, relative to Nashville, is that black incomes trail white incomes by such a wide margin; since Memphis has a much larger black population than Nashville, its average income will be weighted much more heavily towards the lower number ($30k for blacks) than the higher number ($50k for whites).

It's interesting how the dispairity between black/white per capita income ($13k vs $29k) is greater than for household income ($30k vs $50k).  I would speculate that the average household size is larger for blacks than whites, but I can't locate those figures.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The income gap in Memphis is so large because of the 'good ole boy' mentality that still exists in the city. A large part of your success is in who you know. Its hard for uneducated people (not just Black people) to make a decent living working distribution center jobs. $43 million in tax incentives were given to companies entering Shelby County last year alone. Most of these were distribution center jobs payin between $8 and $12 hourly for laborers while only a handful of management positions were created. I think its sad that you can operate a business virtually tax free and have astronomical profits while paying employees beans.

Why are these low paying jobs being filled? Because single parent and low income households have parents working two and/or three jobs and have little time to stress the importance of education because being able to eat is the most important issue to these families (thats a no-brainer). Without a proper education, the youngsters will grow up to feed the cycle and boost the number of unskilled workers. As a member of the Black community, I see this everyday and I often wonder why local politicians don't solve any of these problems because they CAN be solved. This is also why crime is so bad here, because the wealth isn't distributed properly. People aren't robbing and carjacking for fun. The poverty here is insane. I'm by no means being sympathetic to criminals, but the issue goes deeper.

As a young professional, Memphis is one of the most thriving places to be right now. There are so many spots that are full with college educated professionals (Black & White) & so much to do throughout the week. The diversity in Memphis is so cool. The culture, not onlythe racism, can be sliced with a blade here. The racism here is more of an economic racism, African-Americans just got the raw end of the deal, but its not too late to cure the economic insensitivity. White people don't just looking down on poor Blacks, but it seems as though poor White people in Memphis get a very bad rap. I have friends in Nashville that envy the Memphis social scene b/c I have been told that Nashville is all about image now (I don't know how much truth is in that statement).

It also seems that White people are very afraid in Memphis. As soon as a few Black people move to a certain area, the White's clear it out and build new neighborhoods from scratch. We have two new malls opening this year. Most of the stores aren't new, they're just relocating from other malls, etc. Every thing in Raleigh moved a miles up the interstate to Wolfchase and the same thing with the Hickory Ridge Mall being shifted to Collierville.

[Nashvillain]

Thoughtful post. I was reading thru the mostly retarded thread on why cities are more liberal, you should post this there; not that it would matter I guess.

I agree that unskilled labor mainly make slave wages but at least there is pressure on these large corporations to provide decent benefits, for now, that they might not get if self-employed or working for small businesses. I also agree that the working poor get trapped in this system and it is hard for this group to become upwardly mobile. You mention that there are solutions to these problems, I would like to hear what your thoughts are. Maybe on another thread or something if not here. I think these are good jobs that people should be proud to have but they should be adequately compensated for them.

[sleepy]

The income gap in Memphis is so large because of the 'good ole boy' mentality that still exists in the city.  A large part of your success is in who you know.  Its hard for uneducated people (not just Black people) to make a decent living working distribution center jobs.  $43 million in tax incentives were given to companies entering Shelby County last year alone.  Most of these were distribution center jobs payin between $8 and $12 hourly for laborers while only a handful of management positions were created.  I think its sad that you can operate a business virtually tax free and have astronomical profits while paying employees beans. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here are some Southern city stats on hourly wages from:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oessrcma.htm

Median hourly wage, mean hourly wage, mean annual wage:

$13.18 $16.79 $34,930 birmingham

$13.15 $16.60 $34,530 memphis

$14.86 $19.12 $39,770 atlanta

$12.87 $16.44 $34,190 jacksonville

$13.47 $16.75 $34,850 nashville

$12.47 $15.98 $33,230 tampa

$13.39 $16.54 $34,400 louisville

$12.12 $15.61 $32,460 new orleans

$14.16 $18.15 $37,740 charlotte

$13.02 $16.33 $33,960 greensboro

$14.81 $19.17 $39,880 raleigh

$12.18 $15.39 $32,020 knoxville

Obviously the cities that do well are those involved in high-tech or high-end services like finances.

[sleepy]

Every thing in Raleigh moved a miles up the interstate to Wolfchase and the same thing with the Hickory Ridge Mall being shifted to Collierville.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I read recently that even though Dillard's is leaving Hickory Ridge, the mall itself is doing fine, and Macy's plans on staying there.

[mandrws1]

Thoughtful post.

[cdarr]

I appologize in advance for such a long post, but I have a lot of passion about this subject!

The income gap in Memphis is so large because of the 'good ole boy' mentality that still exists in the city.  A large part of your success is in who you know. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hear this alot, but I'm not sure Memphis is much different in this regard than other cities of similar size. It is naturally more appealing for any employer to hire somebody they know, or somebody referred by someone they know, than to hire somebody blind. I know this from having been a manager before...it was risk mitigation, nothing more.

$43 million in tax incentives were given to companies entering Shelby County last year alone.  Most of these were distribution center jobs payin between $8 and $12 hourly for laborers while only a handful of management positions were created.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm beginning to believe more and more that tax incentives are being dished out far to generously here. What's the big deal if a D.C. goes to Olive Branch instead of Memphis? There's no city/county payroll tax (yet), and most of the city's revenue comes from RESIDENTIAL property taxes. A better use of those tax incentives would be to encourage more infill by middle/upper income residents. Give people the financial incentive, rather than disincentive, to live here.

Why are these low paying jobs being filled?  Because single parent and low income households have parents working two and/or three jobs and have little time to stress the importance of education because being able to eat is the most important issue to these families (thats a no-brainer).  Without a proper education, the youngsters will grow up to feed the cycle and boost the number of unskilled workers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In general I agree...there is certainly an insidious cycle going on. I'm not sure lack of time is really the main problem...time is an issue for many middle/upper income families too but the children end up better educated. Unfortunately, idleness and lack of personal pride are a problem too. A workforce study was released last month by the Memphis Regional Chamber that said many higher-paying employers are staying away from Memphis. Why? Much of the workforce is perceived as unmotivated and uneducated. Knowledge-based industries are not going to locate in the middle of what they think is a lazy, stupid population. Another reason for the failure to stress education to children, in many cases, is that the parents have so little education themselves, can't help their kids with homework, and are unable to enrich their children with anything, other than TV and video games, in the crucial years before school.

As a member of the Black community, I see this everyday and I often wonder why local politicians don't solve any of these problems because they CAN be solved. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In many respects, we get what deserve when it comes to our politicians. We don't get solutions because we keep re-electing the same bozos over and over again who are big on talk, short on tangible results. We replace Ford with Ford, we give W.W. 4 terms, so it's no surprise things don't really change. All of us - black and white - agree that Team Memphis keeps losing but we never fire the coaching staff.

The diversity in Memphis is so cool.  The culture, not only the racism, can be sliced with a blade here.  The racism here is more of an economic racism, African-Americans just got the raw end of the deal, but its not too late to cure the economic insensitivity. 

It also seems that White people are very afraid in Memphis.  As soon as a few Black people move to a certain area,  the White's clear it out and build new neighborhoods from scratch. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope you and other African-Americans will understand that the conflict has less to do with racism and more with fear of culture. What I hear discussed by whites, when there are no blacks around, isn't that black people are inherently inferior or anything like that. They complain about things they associate, prejudically, to the whole black community...gangs, crime, crack, domestic violence, promiscuity, lazyness, illiteracy, ebonics, etc...."ghetto culture" if you will. They would like to think that black people have similar dreams and aspirations as they do, but what they see on the news and driving through much of Memphis just doesn't bear testimony to that. That's why they move out when a certain number of black people move in. They think (right or wrong) that hip-hop culture can't be far behind...and they just don't want to live in the middle of that.

I believe the cure to these problems must come largely from within the black community - with support and assistance (not financial handouts) from whites. Blacks are not going to listen to whites telling them how they should live. As a Christian, I would like to believe that the answer can come from the churches. We are one of the most churched cities in the world, yet we allow race, politics, class and so many other things separate us when we should be united by a common faith - something that SHOULD be far more important that those other issues.

[mandrws1]

Cdarr, you have a lot of good points, but I have an interesting story to tell.

One of my good friends, who happens to be White, and I were getting close to our college graduation date so we decided to apply to a very respectable Memphis based company. I have a "Black name," and my friend has a "White name." Our resumes and GPAs were pretty much the same. Our phone calls went completely different. I was told that the company was staffed up and that I was inexperienced and to re-apply once I graduated. My buddy was told to come in and meet the staff because more youth was desired in their organization. He didn't accept the position that was offered to him and he sort of resents Memphis because of that situation. The racism IS still there. Now I know that could have happened in any city in America, but the huge wealth gap in Memphis obviously shows that it is a big problem here.

[cdarr]

Cdarr, you have a lot of good points, but I have an interesting story to tell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sympathize with your story, and I don't deny that there is still racism. I think you categorize it correctly as "fear", as opposed to hatred like many people try to describe it. I just don't detect much hatred among the portion of the white community I'm a part of. Who knows the particular motivation of the person(s) who decided to reject you while interviewing the other guy? Maybe hatred, maybe fear, maybe two or three bad experiences with black employees that got transformed into prejudice.

One question does come to mind, and maybe you can help answer it. Memphis is now 65% black, and Shelby County is 51% black. That's a lot of black people, and at least some of them are entrepreneurs or decision-makers at large companies (I used to work for a black female VP at a very large Memphis company). Why aren't these people of influence able to turn around these "in-network" hiring practices, maybe even turn them to the advantage of the black community?

[sleepy]

I hope you and other African-Americans will understand that the conflict has less to do with racism and more with fear of culture.  What I hear discussed by whites, when there are no blacks around, isn't that black people are inherently inferior or anything like that.  They complain about things they associate, prejudically, to the whole black community...gangs, crime, crack, domestic violence, promiscuity, lazyness, illiteracy, ebonics, etc...."ghetto culture" if you will.  They would like to think that black people have similar dreams and aspirations as they do, but what they see on the news and driving through much of Memphis just doesn't bear testimony to that.  That's why they move out when a certain number of black people move in.  They think (right or wrong) that hip-hop culture can't be far behind...and they just don't want to live in the middle of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But how do you explain then when middle-income blacks move next door to middle-income whites in places like Hickory Hill or Cordova, and whites still leave? Those black people "have similar dereams and aspirations as they do." They left the innercity precisely for the same reasons that whites did. They also wanted to escape "gangs, crime, crack, domestic violence, etc."

It then becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy: the whites dump their property on the market, the area is saturated with unsold homes, which sit unsold for months, prices go down, vacant property turns into absentee landlords, section 8 housing, etc. Five years later, whites drive by the old neighborhood and go "tsk, tsk, we were right to leave."

Of course, if they'd stayed, the neighborhood would have remained just fine.

[it's just dave]

I'm in a mixed neighborhood. It's mixed with longtime elderly, new black/white/non-white and sort of white, sort of black professionals, blacks and whites blue collar, architects to designers to school teachers to the lady who rings up sales at the convenience store. Hispanics, Germans, Greeks, gays, straights...you name it, we've got it. I don't particularly like loud thumping music, but I remember mine used to be loud and thump also when I was younger. I do, however, have a problem with the offensive rap with the bad language permeating throughout the neighborhood. They make other places for that and fortunately we don't have much of that. I don't see anybody running away because of our healthy diversity, but I can tell you this. If we suddenly have "gangs, crime, crack, domestic violence, promiscuity, lazyness, illiteracy, ebonics, etc...."ghetto culture" if you will." Then we'll have a problem and believe me it won't be those of us who've built our neighborhood into what it is that'll be leaving. My neighborhood is experiencing increased property values, stability, and appeal...and yes we cross racial bounds all over. I pity the edge neighborhoods who don't have that positive growth and have to deal with such embarrassment.