Dorothea Dix Property

[ctl]

Agriculture. I know their tract goes as far north as Blair Drive. Not sure how much farther.

[Jones_]

It just doesn't look anywhere near 1000 acres nearby...I was even wondering if I-40 and the lands just south of there were part of it...

[ctl]

Yes, much of the undeveloped land between Tryon and Yates Mill is included in the NCDA total. 

Edited April 15, 2014 by ctl

[RALNATIVE]

Interesting article in the TBJ today:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2014/04/hey-raleigh-get-the-dix-deal-done-already.html

[Euphorius]

Looks like the city is bending to the will of the state. This article says the city will leave the state with the 64 acres they wanted. It goes on to say that the city will lease back 90 acres to the state for 10 years. This is total crap. What does the state need with 154 acres of this land? The only positive I can find in the new deal is the addition of 7.3 acres of the Morehead School property that will help link the Dorothea Dix property with Pullen Park. What started as an idea for a huge park has now been cut in half. This is typical Raleigh. Start out with a grand idea, and end up with half of what it was supposed to be. 

 

http://www.wral.com/raleigh-wants-to-add-part-of-morehead-school-land-to-dix-deal/13627084/

[Spatula]

I think the state will likely refuse the deal, just as they did the previous one.

 

The city asks for right of first refusal should the state ever decide to sell the 64 acres of Dix property it is keeping.

 

This would mean that the state could only use its 64 acres for state offices. If they ever decided to sell their section, they couldn't go around the city and sell to developers. Raleigh would have to get first dibs. Knowing this state gov't I expect them to be dickish and opt to bleed Raleigh dry for trying to hang on to the property.

[DPK]

I think the state will likely refuse the deal, just as they did the previous one.

 

I agree. The state really isn't interested in a deal and will likely refuse pretty much anything the city throws at it.

[orulz]

the 90 acre, 10-year lease back looks to me like it would be related to winding down the state operations elsewhere on the campus which makes sense, while they consolidate to their 54 acres.

[Euphorius]

But what does this state agency need with 64 acres of land? I'm sure parking takes up a lot, but you can fit an average of 100-150 parking spaces per acre. Are there really so many DHHS employees working on Dix Hill that they need all that land for parking? I feel like there is something that I am not understanding about their supposed need for so much land. 

[ctl]

Good coverage in today's N&O about the city's revised offer. Includes a map. 

[Spatula]

But what does this state agency need with 64 acres of land? I'm sure parking takes up a lot, but you can fit an average of 100-150 parking spaces per acre. Are there really so many DHHS employees working on Dix Hill that they need all that land for parking? I feel like there is something that I am not understanding about their supposed need for so much land. 

They don't need it for anything. They will use 'state offices' as the excuse and right after the deal clears, they'll sell their parcel to developers. Hence why I don't think they'll accept the current deal, because it wisely prevents that kind of scheming.

[Jones_]

At this exact moment there are in fact a lot of employees out there. You'd need 6-12 months to lease other space and upfit it. If the actual campus idea comes to pass your talking 1-2 years of phased construction to get there from the moment a site is selected. What ever happened to the RFP's for that anyway? Anyway, there is no long term need to keep those 64 acres. Without them the park won't be much of anything. These 64 are a big chunk of the contiguous flat area atop the hill. The other parts of the land are so steep you're left with natural uses only, trails etc., which are great, and great for wildlife and such but no keystone items that make it a destination can be wedged in there easily.

[RALNATIVE]

Eventhough the city plans to convert this property to a park, I actually think that the city should consider using this site to bring a zoo to Raleigh. It would be the perfect location in my opinion for a zoo, and it would certainly help to raise the city's profile and generate greater revenue much more so than another park would.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

[Spatula]

I don't think the city really knows what it wants to do with the Dix park yet, only that it wants some kind of park.

 

Every plan I've seen looks very rough.

 

I figure the most historically important buildings on the campus could be the park offices/shops/restrooms and so forth, perhaps a small museum. The rest could be cleared for a nature park with trails, gardens, grand lawns and so on. An outdoor pool sort of in the vein of Austin's Barton Springs pool would be awesome, if it were possible somehow. I don't know though. I could see the park taking a few very different directions.

[DPK]

To small for a zoo. Anyway, NC Zoo is way to close...and besides it would be way to expensive.

 

I think you've set a new record.  I've never seen someone on here reply that many times with the same statement, haha.  

[RALNATIVE]

Too small for a zoo? Too expensive? There are plenty of cities that have zoos on smaller plots than this. I do think that a central park would be nice for the city, but honestly, do we really need another park? What sort of ROI can we expect from this park?

 

For a metro the size of Raleigh there are way too few attractions and other amenities here, comparatively speaking. If not a zoo, the city needs to start thinking on a grander scale than what they are now.

 

Each time an idea that is "metro-esque" is proposed for this area, we hear the same arguments...too small, too expensive, blah, blah, blah. Meanwhile, the people keep coming, the property taxes keep rising, and the meager amenities that the city does offer are over utilized.

 

Somehow, I sort of expect more sentiments like yours DwnTwnRaleighGuy. Afterall, this is NC that we're dealing with.

Edited May 10, 2014 by RALNATIVE

[Jones_]

I'm partial to the park like setting behind the NCMA but this may be taking the fairly natural state of Dix and disneyland-ing it a bit too much. But interesting art and educational stuff along a couple mile loop would be interesting to me. Naturally it should connect to the existing greenway system on Centennial and Rocky Branch. But this is probably auxiliary to some other main draw...I would be interested to hear concrete stuff to grind over in my head. I haven't seen enough comparable situations in other cities...

[Spatula]

A comparable situation would be the Piedmont Park in Atlanta, I think.

[Euphorius]

I've always thought an observation tower would be great on top of the hill. I can see the appeal of a zoo, but I think something like a large aviary would be better suited for the location since the NC Zoo is so close. I would love to see the train at Pullen Park extended to loop around the Dix property. The pool idea is cool. It would be great if it was a natural pool that could also serve as an educational area about aquatic plants. That would also tie in with the botanical garden idea.