Dorothea Dix Property

[reed]

New guy here....

Just wanted to agree w/ the comments being made here regarding this property. This is an opportunity for Raleigh to do something creative w/ this piece of land and really turn a corner toward smarter growth.

As a resident of downtown, I really don't see the overwhelming need for more park space. Chavis Park, Pullen Park, whatever that one on Wade Ave is called... they all seem under utilized as is. From listening to some of the comments regarding Dix, you would think that there are hordes of children throughout the city playing in the streets because there are no open spaces for them to run around in.

[Miesian Corners]

I should have showed up, my voice next to NIMBY's would have been relevant since I live in Caraleigh Mills just off Lake Wheeler and am equally impacted by any move made with the property. Once again...I love the city in a park plan.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you have made a wise investment if this plan gets approved. Caraliegh is a cool building. The whole Caraleigh neighborhood stands to benefit greatly from this.

[Subway Scoundrel]

One of the best things about the Dix property is it has rail running right through it. Although I know it is not part of any future plans from TTA, imagine in the future where this property would be somewhat developed and have a stop on the line that runs to Garner/401 (I think). It connect right near the proposed main downtown station. Imagine 2 stops on the dix property. One for residential and the other for farmers market. Then let it run through that land along I-40 and the Caraleigh neighborhood into Garner all the way down to Wake Tech and Fuquay. Hey, I can dream !!

[avery]

New article in the N&O this morning discussing everyone's displeasure with the 2 designs...

I've noticed that the N&O talked quite a bit about the city park concept and definitely expressed the views of the pro-conservation contingency. Has anyone else noticed slants in the paper regarding this? I love reading the paper every morning, but it sometimes bothers me when articles express heavily to one side of an issue. It has a huge influence on people, especially elected officials. I hope the N&O doesn't scare city leaders with negative press regarding the mixed-development on Dix. I sure did get that impression and if I did, I'm sure others will too.

[RaleighITB]

I'd like to quickly say that this situation is quite frustrating. People in favor of some form of mixed use development really need to get off their ass on this one... there have now several meetings on the Dorthea Dix project and not once has the side supporting some form of development been voiced. I would; however living in Boylan Heights makes that a bit difficult as I'm honestly afraid of getting verbally assaulted on my front porch

Its one thing to debate the issue on urbanplanet but, lets face it, the people that need to aren't likely to read this and if they happen to read the n&o, watch wral or listen to the activists, they're likely to listen to the supposed majority view.

If you really want to stir up debate on this, write to the News & Observer, to the city, the council, the state... rally together, file a petition... attend the next city council meeting and ask to speak, you're entitled to that.

This may turn out to be one of several times in recent history when the city has missed the boat due, in part, to the vocal minority nimbys... c'mon people

Take the time to send an email to the council:

Charles Meeker

Mayor

[email protected]

Philip Isley

Council Member,

District E

[email protected]

Thomas Crowder

Council Member,

District D

[email protected]

Jessie Taliaferro

Council Member,

District B

[email protected]

Tommy Craven

Council Member,

At-Large

[email protected]

Joyce Kekas

Council Member,

At-Large

[email protected]

Michael Regan

Council Member,

District A

[email protected]

James West

Council Member,

District C

Mayor Pro Tempore

[email protected]

[romec]

I've definitely noticed a heavy slant in the N&O regarding growth also. Sheesh, they ran an article about skyscrapers blocking out the sun for goodness sake.

As far as being active, I'd recommend that in addition to writing the city council, also write the state house and senate. At this point, Raleigh has nothing to do with the decision making, its state owned land and a state issue.

(FWIW, not even the nimby's can mess this up too much, NC is not going to gift Raleigh 330 acres of park just for the heck of it.) The State asked for mixed use because the state wants to make money off of this deal.

[orulz]

I wrote a letter to the N&O. Never got printed. I really regret not getting up and speaking at the Dix meetings, but I'm terrible at speaking (especially compared to the former politicians and lawyers who spoke so eloquently in favor of the park), and honestly felt like the crowd was approaching mob status so I just couldn't deal with it at the time. I know, I'm a coward.

Maybe I'll write a shorter letter to the N&O, and I'll also write to city council and the legislators. I'll make that my task for the evening, in fact. But I still get the sinking feeling that no matter what we do, the conservationist ideologues will have their way.

[romec]

Every letter counts! ;-)

[NCMike1981]

Yeah I doubt that the state will allow the park only thing, b/c the state is strapped for cash and money is not to be made in a giant park, unless they charge an entrance fee or something :-p

[ericurbanite]

wow this is pretty good check this out....

Dorthea Dix

A 12 story signature building..

Also in the mix is alot of 4-6 story resedential buildings.

Hotel

New traffic patterns, and alot of open public park space.

edited by orulz for proper capitalization in the topic *ahem*

Edited August 23, 2005 by orulz

[waynehead]

That sounds just about right.

[yfreemark]

Here's the map of the new plan: (if you can't read it, orange lines are transit, green lines are pedestrian/bike ways, red lines are vehicular ways)

[DanRNC]

I think this is a much better plan than what LandDesign pitched. I personally have not been impressed with their work. It seems a little more creative than the cookie-cutter mixed-use projects I've seen.

[orulz]

Ha. That'll be a slap in the face to the Parkys. They ain't gonna be satisfied unless we end up with a 2,000 acre park AND a full-service, 500 bed mental health facility - all out of this 300 acre parcel. This city plan has so much residential that it had ought to make their heads explode.

But seriously? There's a lot to like here. Realigning Ashe Avenue over the Gov. Morehead school field (which, to the best of my knowledge, they don't use) and extending Pullen Park across Western is a great idea. I assume that the Rocky Branch Greenway trail would serve as the connection across Western Boulevard. Maybe the park connection would warrant another "signature" bridge.

I also like the idea of better connectivity to and through the Dix property. I'm guessing that the future Morgan-Western connection would be built directly across from Hunt Drive in this plan, taking up part of the prison's parking lot.

I had grown attached to the idea of developing Lake Wheeler Rd as a more urban corridor, something that this plan avoids.

This is a much less detailed plan than the one produced by LandDesign; there are a couple of aspects that I'd like to see carried over such as reconstructing the original entrance to Dix hospital, and building a plaza and formal garden directly in front of it.

[ericurbanite]

heres a related story on it from wral's website. They have a video too for there on air segment.

Dorthea Dix Wral

[urbanvb]

One good thing is they don't wish for this space to compete with DT .. otherwise you just end up with more sprawl.

[Rufus]

I like the idea, but what i dont like is all the negative feedback it has gotten from other people. Some are saying they dont like the hotel, some want a larger park, others want office buildings, etc. It really gets to me when, esp. with city leaders, we give our time and money to a firm to design a wonderful piece of property, saying we want it developed into to an urban atmosphere, then the firm brings out something wonderful, and they reject it saying stupid excuses like it's too high, too much, or not what we are looking for. Trust the firm please, they know what they are doing, they take many tests on the site and its surrounding areas just to see what fits. If you dont want something then get a degree in urban design, start your own firm, and then see if you get any clients.

[Jones_]

I like all the options that hit a balance between total parkland and totally developed. The Boylan Heights Park proponents forget that from SOME of the public there has been outcry as we all know in this forum. Bugs the heck out of me that they fail to see that usable parkland is being gained in all these proposals, not lost.

Orulz, I too wanted to see Lake Wheeler become something of an urban corridor. Also, via the Road Worrier, Benson Kirkman told me that the Morgan/Western connection may never happen. It is very very expensive as it would be a viaduct over almost its entire length.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I like this plan presented by Raleigh/Wake county FAR FAR better than any of the other proposals.

Residential is the main factor to drive any retail, parks. etc. And this plan has plenty of it. Plus adding a couple signature highrises to the mix. I truly hope this becomes a reality. I believe it is a great way to use that land.

[NCMike1981]

I like the fact that there is no office space on the property, so that it wouldn't be a "suburban office park next to downtown". I think that is very wise...

[Subway Scoundrel]

One issue I wonder about is no office space. Sure, you don't want DT to compete, but an urban core needs office space, or there is not much life during the day. I like the plan and hope people accept, but Meeker may have showed a little too much "Bravo" when he tells the current occupants, who planned on moving more workers to the area, you can not do it so just move DT. Especially when the current occupants own the land (NC gov). Not sure how that will go over with "the Legislative peeps". I still think the key to this property is the rail that runs through it. Although not part of any TTA plan, it is about as close to the current plan as you can get. Nice spur that could feed farmers market, parks and homes that could eventually run into Garner, down 401, to Wake Tech and into Fuquay-Varina and back into RTP. Long ways a way but I can dream.

[ChiefJoJo]

Meeker may have showed a little too much "Bravo" when he tells the current occupants, who planned on moving more workers to the area, you can not do it so just move DT. Especially when the current occupants own the land (NC gov). Not sure how that will go over with "the Legislative peeps".

As much as I like this plan (seems much beter than either of the Landesign options), I can't imagine the raleigh plan goes through the legislature. One of the requirements for the Landesign study was, among other things, to provide office space for the DHHS state workers. I see what Meeker is saying, wanting to promote more office development DT instead of another office park, but I can't imagine a fiscally conscious state govt thinking along those lines.

I wonder if the city could broker a deal to have the state build new DHHS offices on one of their city-owned sites as a tradeoff for developing this plan? hmm...

[Jones_]

As much as I like this plan (seems much beter than either of the Landesign options), I can't imagine the raleigh plan goes through the legislature.  One of the requirements for the Landesign study was, among other things, to provide office space for the DHHS state workers.  I see what Meeker is saying, wanting to promote more office development DT instead of another office park, but I can't imagine a fiscally conscious state govt thinking along those lines.

I wonder if the city could broker a deal to have the state build new DHHS offices on one of their city-owned sites as a tradeoff for developing this plan?  hmm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Intersesting...

I say realign Wilimington and Salisbury Sts at Peace, and line the southside of Peace St with 5 story State buildings between the RR and Peace college...all for DHHS. Would hide the ugly parking deck facing Peace and match the surrounding density nicely (minus the Archdale). Meeker just needs to offer a remake of Peace St so State workers can safely walk over to Sunflowers for lunch.

[ericurbanite]

I'm not sure if this has been posted anywhere but it gives you a little bit more insight and vision to the alternative plan.

Anyhow its a PDF file and heres the link.

Alternative Plan - City Of Raleigh (Dorthea Dix)

[ChiefJoJo]

^OK, that is a great plan. I like the fact that they actually found a way to fit all the criteria and interests of the stakeholders:

the grove, park, mental health, residential, botanical garden, trails, connectivity, etc.