Dorothea Dix Property

[dmccall]

This just came along the email pipeline to me. I'd love to hear everyone's comments:

Dear Dix Park Supporters and Member Organizations (forward to your friends and membership lists),

1. You are invited to Moonlight Pizza on February 22, 2006 to view the Dix Park Concept, and to tell us what you think of it. We would like to celebrate months of work with you, our supporters. The next step will be to present the maps and Concept Objectives to our elected officials.

Place: 615 W Morgan St, 919-755-9133,

Time: 5:30-6:30 pm, free pizza and drinks, stay longer to socialize.

2. The News & Observer published an editorial by President Jay Spain yesterday 1/30/06 (content below). Please take a couple of minutes, write a few sentences of support and send it to [email protected] A show of public support is important, letters don

[Transplant]

I'm sorry to say, comparing Dix Property to Central Park is a mistake.

If areas <I>around</I> the property could be developed, which wouldn't have because many of the friends of Dix are the property owners nearby, only then could Dix even be mentioned with Central Park.

[Raleighsfinest]

I have a gut feeling this project is going to go down hill, because of all of the NIMBY's. There's going to be nothing there, really impressive structurally, when it's all said and done.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Raleighsfinest

[orulz]

OK, I've taken a step back from this issue over the past few months.

Looking at it afresh, the more I think about Dix, the more I realize that the Dix Park folks have a point. The vast majority of the land should eventually be a park.

I'm not opposed to some development, but only along the edges and only as much as necessary to integrate the park with the city. If that means having a road or two through the park, then so be it: the park should be a part of the city, not just an oasis from it - and certainly not an obstacle to it. See examples: Central Park, Boston Common, San Francisco Presidio. They all have major public roads through them.

There is the issue of existing structures, some of which are historically significant, most of which are not. What's to be done with them? Tough choice. More parkland is better, but how much and at what cost?

The state should absolutely not be in a rush to wash their hands of this property. This decision is going to be a permanent one. Development patterns and zoning along Lake Wheeler Road and even Western Boulevard can change, but once the land is sold, making it into a park becomes a million times more difficult.

[Raleighsfinest]

I don't have the energy to really dabate over the Dix property, because all it's going to turn out to mostly be, is the Dix we see today minus the patients, and care givers. The buildings aren't going anywhere because everbody is on the save the historic building bandwagon. It's highly disappointing. The vision I see is a development with a mix of shops,entertainment,homes, and park activities. All fused together in a heavily dense environment.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Raleighsfinest

[Tayfromcarolina]

I thought they already decided what to do with the park and to build the 12-story residential towers last summer. I thought it was a done deal. I rather like the retail and residential plan that was the main forerunner last real. We have a million greenways, Umstead, Lake Wheeler, Jordan Lake..... That location is prime for a good mix of retail, residential and park. They can all be meshed together I believe.

[Raleighsfinest]

I thought they already decided what to do with the park and to build the 12-story residential towers last summer. I thought it was a done deal. I rather like the retail and residential plan that was the main forerunner last real. We have a million greenways, Umstead, Lake Wheeler, Jordan Lake..... That location is prime for a good mix of retail, residential and park. They can all be meshed together I believe.

That's exactly how I feel. How many freakin parks do we need? How about giving the underused, miskept, Pullen Park a makeover. This place is directly across the street from the Dix property. If Raleigh turns 300 acres of land near downtown into a park, i'm moving to Charlotte!

[sax184]

I have lost so much respect for Preservation NC over the Dix battle. The anti-anything but a park website that PNC signed up to support showed ridiculous photoshops of 9 40-story towers and big box saying "do you want this in Dorothea Dix?!?!?!?!?"

You want to disagree with a vision for the future? Fine. Don't spread disinformation. That's nasty.

Shame on PNC, a formerly credible organization.

[Raleighsfinest]

It's like these people are living in small box, inside of their heads. Forget it, just put KB homes on the hill.

[sax184]

It's like these people are living in small box, inside of their heads. Forget it, just put KB homes on the hill.

No kidding. Anybody claiming this could be Raleigh's central park doesn't know a thing about Central Park and why it works.

A better model which would preserve significant green area but increase the urbanistic quality of the neighborhood would be Primrose Hill in London.

Here's the Park: Primrose Hill Park View

ANd here's 24 shots of the neighborhood:

Primrose Hill Neighborhood

[pack-man]

The only time the word park should be used with this project is to use it in the sentence "a park type feel" Raleigh doesn't need another park, it needs smart development. This would be a sick place to build high end residential with mix-retail "with a park type atmosphere" No one is going to go the Dix campus if it is just another nature park.

"Theme Park" would work too I guess with a massive roller coaster, I'd take that.

I say just build a Minor League Baseball Stadium and move the Bulls, or get a new team and make the Bulls leave.

[avery]

Dix Plans

from this morning's N&O...

[RaleighLover]

My vision for the site is something like the American Tobacco Project in Durham except with much more green space, art and trees. Almost like a park without being an actual park. And I do agree with building the two pedestrian bridge to link to the trails.

[DanRNC]

I wouldn't expect anything as this whole project will probably bite the dust. If anything, the property will be sold off and turned into a strip-mall (oops, mixed use) development.

[Damien]

From the article it sounds like even the friends of dix people can't get it together and agree on something. Hopefully that entire group will bite the dust and some reasonable mix between green space and development can occur.

Edited April 5, 2006 by Damien

[RALBOI]

I think their should be a mix of everything.

[avery]

The article mentioned that they are in no rush since the land will not sell until 2007. I say...why wait? They should continue to finalize plans and try to satisfy the naysayers. I would hate for this thing to get pushed through in 2007 like the Marriott deal did and get a quick end result that will not meet its full potential.

[Damien]

More meetings about this property this week. Here's the story

[Raleighsfinest]

This is a sketchy development for the simple fact of all the parkies in Raleigh. This place has a potential of being a dense urban mini city so to speak, with plenty of park space.

[RDUairport]

With a look at building schools downtown, could this be a good place for one? It would be within a few miles of all the new residental buildings and any residental development on the same land. Shoot, with Wake county you just can't have too many schools it seems.

[ChiefJoJo]

New N&O article on Gregory Poole, a Caterpillar Equipment Dealer, who wants to preserve the Dix site as a park.

[Raleighsfinest]

That would be the biggest waste of valuable land in history!

[dmccall]

I don't quite understand something. A lot of the pro-park people, like Mr. Poole, say that it is great land and refer to Boston's Commons and NY's Central Park.

Are these people wanting to just preserve everything that is there and put a fence around it? The keys to those revered public spaces mentioned above is that they are CENTRAL. ie, they aren't bounded by undeveloped university land and an interstate. They actually have people living on all 4 sides of it; people who can WALK to it.

If the land is preserved the way it is and dense infill around its perimeter cannot grow, the project will be a huge waste because <1% of people in Raleigh will get in their cars to go over there and drive it (fewer will ride a bus or train to get there).

To me it seems like the City/County plan (.pdf file page 7) looks like the right thing. Densely develop the Dix land that immediately borders the farmer's market and Centennial Campus, and leave a big swath of parkland through the middle. This way there would be people nearby who would use the land.

The big problem with the dense, urban extension ideas that some have proposed is that it would directly compete with potential infill downtown projects. We need housing and office spaces to replace empty parking lots, and the appeal of building that 12-story office building on Dix is too strong.

Are these people against the City/County plan???

[ChiefJoJo]

Poll says Wake voters want all of Dix's 315 acres to be a park.

[dmccall]

Poll says Wake voters want all of Dix's 315 acres to be a park.

Here we go again with another biased poll (referring to TTA's poll in April). The most important line in the story is:

"The poll was done by Raleigh-based Public Policy Polling for the Friends of Dorothea Dix Park, a nonprofit group that supports a large park."

In other words, the poll is useless.