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Infinite1

Noisette Project

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I read in the Charleston Business Journal that the Noisette Company is set to sell off its first properties for development the parcels range from 1.12 to 13.9 acres. They already have preliminary plans established and the zoning on all parcels is in place.

Parcel A - 1.12 acres for 27K Sf of office; 12.5K SF of retail and 140 MF Residential units in a building up to 8 stories. - $3.7M

Parcel B - 1.74 acres - 94K SF office; 20K Sf of retail and 24 MFR units in 6 to 8 stories. - $2.4M

Parcel C - 2.55 acres- 54K SF office; 43K sf retail; 124 MFR in 6 to 8 stories - $5.3

Parcel D - 4.13 acres - 83K Sf Flex space - $830K

Parcel E - 5.4 acres - 120K SF office condos - up to 6 stories

Parcel F - 13.9 acres - 265K SF office; 100K Sf retail; 100 room full service hotel; 288 MFR units - $13.6M

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This is great news. We've been hearing about this development for years. I was wondering when we would actually have something brick-and-mortar to look at. Now, if Magnolia would just start building too.....

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Read an article about this development in the Attache magazine (US Airways inflight mag). Looks pretty cool.

Question for you CHS folks. Do you see this area becoming the new business center for the area (in terms of office space)? It looks like downtown Charleston is tapped out due to restrictions on development and the gobbling up of land by tourism related industry. Will North Charleston become the region's biggest office market? From the outside, it looks like it is best suited for such. It has good freeway access (I-526 and I-26), easy to get to by commuters from Mt Pleasant, West Ashley, Goose Creek and Summerville, and lots of developable land

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That is up to the government of N. Chas in my opinion. I have stated before that they are in a prime spot for large amounts of good development. They really have disappointed me and I hope they can get things going in the right direction soon.

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DT Charleston's office market is not as tapped out as you say it is. City officials are starting to realize how important having office development DT is, and they are easing restrictions in some areas (mostly the medical complex). Also, the Magnolia project mentioned earlier will probably become the "uptown" of Charleston in the Neck area. The project is going to be practically next door to Noisette, so office development will probably end up being shared. The north city still has yet to improve its reputation as a liveable city, so I don't think the city should just get all offices built there. Noisette is going to build offices, of course, but their primary concern is beautifying and restoring pleasant neighborhoods.

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North Chuck and Noisette are already billing their (proposed) commercial district as "uptown"...but I doubt it will ever become the predominant office area in the region. I think the order of preference will remain downtown first, mt Pleasant (and Daniel Island) second, with North Charleston being 3rd.

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I drove through downtown North Charleston today and construction has begun on the streetscape project -- it should definitely enhance the old downtown area.

I have also been keeping an eye on the old John C. Calhoun site. Looks like everything has been cleared out -- a few months back there were still a few buildings on the property. Its going to be exciting seeing the I'On group develop this parcel of land. Does anyone have info on this development?

Noisette definitely has the potential to be the nucleus for large scale urban development throughout North Charleston. Its an ambitious project and its going to take some time, but I think people's perceptions of this region will change as this area gets cleaned up and development takes off.

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Bad news on the Noisette Project. It appears fears that the company's pockets weren't deep enough may be true. Because the Chas. market is so hot, eventually this property will be developed, but it may be a different company and it may be delayed significantly IMO. How long has this company controled the site, does anyone know. The base closed many years back now.

Noisette seeks bond money from North Chas.

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Bad news on the Noisette Project. It appears fears that the company's pockets weren't deep enough may be true. Because the Chas. market is so hot, eventually this property will be developed, but it may be a different company and it may be delayed significantly IMO. How long has this company controled the site, does anyone know. The base closed many years back now.

Noisette seeks bond money from North Chas.

Since the opening of Riverfront Park, Noisette has been extremely quiet. I've been wondering myself what has been taking so long -- appears to be $$$.

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Bad news on the Noisette Project. It appears fears that the company's pockets weren't deep enough may be true. Because the Chas. market is so hot, eventually this property will be developed, but it may be a different company and it may be delayed significantly IMO. How long has this company controled the site, does anyone know. The base closed many years back now.

Noisette seeks bond money from North Chas.

They took control it seems like about a year and a half ago...in that timeframe.

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I think we have known from the beginning that these people did not have the money for this redevelopment, it has all been speculation that they would get funding from the city and investors. Picking them over everyone else without any biding was a huge gamble.

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I think we have known from the beginning that these people did not have the money for this redevelopment, it has all been speculation that they would get funding from the city and investors. Picking them over everyone else without any biding was a huge gamble.

they weren't "picked" per se without bidding....John Knott brought the idea to the City of North Charleston (sorry CharlestonNative...). It is his brainchild, there was no "everyone else". No, he dosen't have the $1B to invest in a development (who does?). Noisette was/is supposed to be a master development whereby parcel would be sold and off and developed by other developers. In order to do this an upfront investment must be made in the infrastructure. This is the major investment necessary from Noisette. All North Chuck was "contributing" is financing of the base property at favorable terms.

I still think one of the biggest blows to this project was/is the fact that CMMC (an industrial ship repair shop) is sitting right in the middle of the proposed commercial district...thank to the RDA.

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That's my point though, it was all handed to them in good faith. Knott has been involved in projects like this elsewhere that didn't get anywhere. To his credit he has been involved with projects that have turned out ok too.

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Infinite1 and Mike, knowing this information, why couldn't Knott have proposed making the development a joint venture with another company or including people such as Robert Clement and making the Magnolia and Noisette projects a multi-company effort? Would this have helped with funding? It seems odd that Knott would "go at it alone" and end up coming short, financially.

I'm really disappointed with this news about Noisette. True, I would prefer the project being in the city of Chas, but this is an area that needs significant renovation and redevelopment. However, I think the north city's lust for growth and power is one of the reasons for these continuing problems. Instead of carefully partnering with the company, the city just took the plunge...knowing the completion of this project could "out-do" its southern neighbor. Again, IMO, Summey constantly competing with Chas blinded him and the council from foreseeing any possible problems whether it be financial, structural, or relational.

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Infinite1 and Mike, knowing this information, why couldn't Knott have proposed making the development a joint venture with another company or including people such as Robert Clement and making the Magnolia and Noisette projects a multi-company effort? Would this have helped with funding? It seems odd that Knott would "go at it alone" and end up coming short, financially.

I'm really disappointed with this news about Noisette. True, I would prefer the project being in the city of Chas, but this is an area that needs significant renovation and redevelopment. However, I think the north city's lust for growth and power is one of the reasons for these continuing problems. Instead of carefully partnering with the company, the city just took the plunge...knowing the completion of this project could "out-do" its southern neighbor. Again, IMO, Summey constantly competing with Chas blinded him and the council from foreseeing any possible problems whether it be financial, structural, or relational.

Noisette IS a partnership....take a look at their Board of Directors...there are Fortune 500's CEOs,, other developers, etc....but John Knott is driving the boat. All NC gave them was effectively a loan, but not really. The land was turned over to NC and they "sold" it to Noisette, but the city financed the loan. There have been no projects similar to this (in scope and type) in this country. The "failed" project that the P&C so gladly points out was relatively small condo project in Maryland and the height of the S&L crash, I really don't consider that an indictment on whether he can pull this off. I think the lack of cooperation from the RDA hampered this project early on....they (Noisette) took a long time getting the master plan done....the CMMC facility not moving hurt. They have renovated a couple of building and are starting to lease them out...that should help with the cash flow some, they are now free and clear of NC so they can mortgage some of the base properties for more money....but the biggest drawback so far has been the lack of any real interest from other developers. To my knowledge, there have been no takers on the six parcels of land that started this thread....that is the involvement needed to kickstart this development.

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...They have renovated a couple of building and are starting to lease them out...that should help with the cash flow some, they are now free and clear of NC so they can mortgage some of the base properties for more money....but the biggest drawback so far has been the lack of any real interest from other developers. To my knowledge, there have been no takers on the six parcels of land that started this thread....that is the involvement needed to kickstart this development.

Good info to know, Infinite. However, what you just mentioned as the biggest drawback is exactly what I'm questioning. I'm wanting to know why other developers are still hesitant to build important parcels to get Noisette up and running. The buzz and hype are there, as well as the community interest. I think all of the metro area wants this area built into the major complex it is supposed to be. City of Charleston officials want the area built in conjunction with Magnolia to create a beautiful gateway into the city...since right now, the entrance into the city from I-26 is deplorable to say the least. Is the Noisette Company waiting for the Magnolia project to start running, first?

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i am MUCH more excited about magnolia over noisette. also i REALLY REALLY hope the idea about the old trolley cars being restored to their former glory and being put back on the tracks comes to fruition!!

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the parcels they are offering appear to be kind of pricey (ranging from $1M to $3m per acre)...that, and most developers are reluctant to be the guinea pigs for an idea. I really hope they aren't waiting on Magnolia....there is a whole lot of work to be done there in preparation. Magnolia also depends (or at least is putting faith in) the SCDOT to build the new port access road and possibly realign I-26 and put it at grade. There are also a gazillion industrial properties that need to be relocated (to the MacAlloy site) for Magnolia to reach its full potential. Point being Magnolia is a very long term project as well.

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Maybe both projects need an investor like Donald Trump to kick start things. :lol: His notoriety itself would bring money and alot of buzz over the projects and get them rolling quickly.

Maybe he could let one of his apprentices work on it... :D

On a serious note, that's not a bad idea... :thumbsup:

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Maybe he could let one of his apprentices work on it... :D

On a serious note, that's not a bad idea... :thumbsup:

well hell if we let trump take over he may as well build the monobeam or whatever it's called from n chuck to downtown :w00t:

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FWIW here are my perspectives (long post). Noisette is the primary reason any investment started happening in the Park Circle area. The only idea N. Charleston City Council had for the base prior to Noisette was some sort of Chicken Processing Plant (on the area where the Hunley Museum is slated to go). John Knott and Co. took a big risk to try something this ambitious in a city whose prior leadership was myopic and leaden. There are much easier ways to make money that to deal with a project wrapped up in Federal, State, and Local bureaucracies. With all the sprawl going on the entire region should be embracing the reuse and infill concepts of the Noisette plan as well as its advocacy of environmentally-responsible development.

The majority of developers on this side of the country are clueless when it comes to sustainable and new urbanist developments. One of the few is I'on and a spin off group from that developer (Mixson Avenue) is already tasked to redevelop the John C. Calhoun site.

More than likely it will be companies from somewhere else (California or another West Coast state) that will become involved and convincing these companies to take the plunge here will be the challenge. Noisette's requirements are pretty stringent when it comes to best practices of construction, energy efficiency, stormwater channeling, etc.

I work on the base and can tell you the RDA did nothing for many years in regards to maintaining the historic structures on the base. They stopped the termite bonds and treatments and shut off the HVAC systems. When Noisette finally received the parcels and buildings they were now stuck with dealing with years of neglect that will be expensive to fix. Plus they were unable to do any real marketing of the parcels as the RDA and then Sanford sat on the paperwork that was to give them the final critical pieces - the land along McMillan Avenue and the North gate of the base - the essential ingress and egress. None of this was reported or was reported in a manner which gave the RDA and Sanford a free pass.

The latest newspaper article about the financing plan is again totally one-sided. Noisette is suggesting using bonds the same way other large developments happen in other states. Noisette is going to borrow money for infrastructure improvements that will ultimately belong to the city. The city will end up paying them back. So why not finance it with bonds instead of via normal bank financing? Noisette's proposal would actually save the city money. Of course this was not reported.

Generally Noisette has gotten a raw deal in the P&C and it seems James Scott has only one assignment which is to stir the pot. Why? Perhaps there are others who would like to see Noisette fail so they can jump in now that a lot of the administrative and logistics have already been done.

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FWIW here are my perspectives (long post)...

Welcome to UrbanPlanet, and thanks for the very informative post, groovetube. Don't worry about the length of your post...if you read some posts I write, in comparison, your length was quite alright. I also look forward for more posts from you about this and other developments in the Charleston forum. We need more Charlestonians like you participating here! :thumbsup:

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