Raleigh Contemporary Art Museum (CAM)

[DanRNC]

The list of projects in DT Raleigh has info on it. Preliminary design is 2 stories.

Link

[DanRNC]

Article in the N&O today about this project.

Story

[orulz]

If they want to do something eye-popping and modern but affordable, they should look at the recently-proposed Zona Lofts project in Asheville.

Zona is a 13-story proposal with 162 units on a small lot, with amenities like ground-level retail, a green roof, and solar power. It incorporates a parking deck as well as renovation of a historic three-story storefront building next door. The starting point for units in this building is supposed to be $119,000. This is a big deal in Asheville, where downtown housing prices are (on the whole) even more out-of-sync with what locals can afford than Raleigh.

How do they manage to deliver at this price point while keeping these amenities?

1. Modular construction. Units are pre-assembled and will be inserted into a steel frame erected on-site.

2. Small units - everything is 650-900 square feet.

3. Density. Asheville has more liberal density restrictions downtown than Raleigh.

4. No wasted space on parking. There are no off-street parking requirements for any construction in Asheville's CBD, so the building has only 100-110 parking spaces for the 162 units.

If this project goes as planned, then CAM would be advised to look here for a good example of what to do. Even small units like that would sell like hotcakes at that price point in Raleigh.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

If they want to do something eye-popping and modern but affordable, they should look at the recently-proposed Zona Lofts project in Asheville.

Zona is a 13-story proposal with 162 units on a small lot, with amenities like ground-level retail, a green roof, and solar power. It incorporates a parking deck as well as renovation of a historic three-story storefront building next door. The starting point for units in this building is supposed to be $119,000. This is a big deal in Asheville, where downtown housing prices are (on the whole) even more out-of-sync with what locals can afford than Raleigh.

How do they manage to deliver at this price point while keeping these amenities?

1. Modular construction. Units are pre-assembled and will be inserted into a steel frame erected on-site.

2. Small units - everything is 650-900 square feet.

3. Density. Asheville has more liberal density restrictions downtown than Raleigh.

4. No wasted space on parking. There are no off-street parking requirements for any construction in Asheville's CBD, so the building has only 100-110 parking spaces for the 162 units.

If this project goes as planned, then CAM would be advised to look here for a good example of what to do. Even small units like that would sell like hotcakes at that price point in Raleigh.

[ChiefJoJo]

^ That's awesome. I totally agree with those proposals. The off-street parking requirement in the zoning code may be dropped by the city and the city just adopted new density "bonuses." That should be attractive to Grubb to develop something dense and affordable hopefully. The market needs something like that.

[urbanesq]

^^ Eye-popping enough, but can we have it so there's no parking visible from the street? Seems so odd to me that every building in this era will perch atop several stories of parking. I'd rather see it hidden behind office fronts, a health club, or some other use that might bring life to the street.

In any case, I think that would be a great place to go vertical. Let's see 15 stories for sure!

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

In any case, I think that would be a great place to go vertical. Let's see 15 stories for sure!

[orulz]

^^ Eye-popping enough, but can we have it so there's no parking visible from the street? Seems so odd to me that every building in this era will perch atop several stories of parking. I'd rather see it hidden behind office fronts, a health club, or some other use that might bring life to the street.

[ChiefJoJo]

It's worth bringing back up the two initial schematics...

Option 1 includes 50 residential units in a 12-story building, 20,000sf of museum space and 7,000sf of retail/office space.

Option 2 features 32 residential units (7-stories) and 17,000sf of exhibit space.

[Jones_]

It's worth bringing back up the two initial schematics...

Option 1 includes 50 residential units in a 12-story building, 20,000sf of museum space and 7,000sf of retail/office space.

Option 2 features 32 residential units (7-stories) and 17,000sf of exhibit space.

[urbanesq]

looks way cool. I'll take 12 stories. (But will continue to hope they bump up the residential and add to it, though...)

[orulz]

Those numbers of units (32 and 50) seem quite low for a 7- or 12-story building. Either the floorplates will be small or the units will be large. If the past is any indication, large, expensive units don't sell well in downtown Raleigh. Hopefully the density will increase and the price per unit will decrease, bringing the units in line with the price everyone who actually wants to live downtown can pay.

[DanRNC]

Wasn't a main component of this project was the affordability issue? Someplace that artists could actually live would be nice for this part of downtown.

[Jones_]

Those numbers of units (32 and 50) seem quite low for a 7- or 12-story building. Either the floorplates will be small or the units will be large. If the past is any indication, large, expensive units don't sell well in downtown Raleigh. Hopefully the density will increase and the price per unit will decrease, bringing the units in line with the price everyone who actually wants to live downtown can pay.

[orulz]

Ok, The entire property owned by CAM is 0.57 acres. However, Based on the renderings, the lot dimensions on Wake County's GIS site, and some measurments from Google Earth, The portion of the site considered for the tower is approx 133ft x 60ft. So The total floorplate of the tower is only 7980sf. If you figure about 2,000 square feet of that will be dedicated to hallways and elevators, about 6,000 square feet will actually be dedicated to residential units. 5 units per floor would mean 1,200sf per unit which is "modest" but not really small. 600-900sf per unit (avg of 750!) would be 8 units per floor. 600sf for a studio, 750 for a 1-bedroom, and 900sf for a two-bedroom is plenty of space for any young person. Right now I live in a 718sf 2-bedroom apartment and it's quite comfortable!

How many floors of the 12-story tower do you think would be dedicated to residential space? Probably 1 to retail, 2 or 3 for parking, so 8 or 9 for units. That would be 64-72 units. Ok, so it's not a huge difference from 50, but it is a difference. Wonder what sort of impact that would have on unit pricing.

[avery]

I could care less if it were 8, 10, or 12 stories. I think it is more important to see what type of units they will be selling and its affordability.

The best thing about this project is the museum. Think about the excitment and ground floor traffic this could provide for the area. It could be a catalyst for other small businesses and an overall general increase in interest for this part of town.

[Jones_]

Ok, The entire property owned by CAM is 0.57 acres. However, Based on the renderings, the lot dimensions on Wake County's GIS site, and some measurments from Google Earth, The portion of the site considered for the tower is approx 133ft x 60ft. So The total floorplate of the tower is only 7980sf. If you figure about 2,000 square feet of that will be dedicated to hallways and elevators, about 6,000 square feet will actually be dedicated to residential units. 5 units per floor would mean 1,200sf per unit which is "modest" but not really small. 600-900sf per unit (avg of 750!) would be 8 units per floor. 600sf for a studio, 750 for a 1-bedroom, and 900sf for a two-bedroom is plenty of space for any young person. Right now I live in a 718sf 2-bedroom apartment and it's quite comfortable!

How many floors of the 12-story tower do you think would be dedicated to residential space? Probably 1 to retail, 2 or 3 for parking, so 8 or 9 for units. That would be 64-72 units. Ok, so it's not a huge difference from 50, but it is a difference. Wonder what sort of impact that would have on unit pricing.

[serapis]

I'm new to this project. Where and will this be built?

[orulz]

Orulz, was your 'tower' envelope the entire footprint? The renderings show only about half the total foot print being for the tower itself.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the site. Important to remember that the above renderings are schematics, and certainly subject to change since Grubb (developer) just hired an architect (Clearscapes) to design the building. They will have to look at the market to survey what can be built, and given the density rules (it's close to future TTA DTR stop = bonus for density) and potential for eliminating parking requirements, they will have some options to keep the prices low.

Wasn't a main component of this project was the affordability issue? Someplace that artists could actually live would be nice for this part of downtown.

[Jones_]

Jones133,

The footprint of my ficticious tower occupies only the surface lot on the SE corner of Martin & West that makes up approximately 2/5 of the whole parcel owned by the Contemporary Art Museum. This appears to be the footprint of the 12-story tower as depicted in the renderings. The parcel that CAM owns consists of this parking lot, the smaller, square parking lot at the SW corner of Martin & Harrington, and the warehouse between them.

But regardless of the size of the units, CAM should look into going modular to decrease construction costs per sf. The appearance of a modular residential highrise could work very well in the warehouse district.

[orulz]

thanks for the map Chief, man, that whole west Martin, West Davie, Harrington area is going to be very cool.....Push West or Harrington south accross the tracks ...

[Jones_]

I've thought about linking West and/or Harrington across the tracks quite a bit. I've realized that it's probably not possible without some significant impacts on the built environment. Problem is, new grade crossings basicall don't get built, ever. So any connection would have to be an overpass. Overpasses require inclines, which would have to go right in front of a lot of the warehouse district buildings. You could rase the elevation of the right-of-way, but then every 1-2 story building in the depot district would end up below grade.

What we might actually see are:

- A connection so that West turns the corner at the tracks and becomes Davie

- The long-planned connector from Glenwood to S. Saunders (As part of the Multimodal Station project)

- MAYBE a bridge for Hargett over the tracks (Also part of the Multimodal Station project)

[ncwebguy]

Club Oxygen, which fronts Davie street at the south end of this block, appeared to be out of business when I walked by there a few weeks ago. I think connecting Davie and Harrington would form a neat curve, though there is a grade change there currently served by steps from the Powerhouse/Oxygen parking lot to Harrington.

Some parking spaces would be lost, but others would be gained by on-street parking, and a potential CAM parking deck. Could they work something out with the owners of the Centerline and Powerhouse/Club Oxygen buildings to create a contiguous block bounded by Davie, Harrington, Martin and West? There could be a *lot* of transit oriented design and continued development on the adjacent blocks. It could also help move buses through there as part of the multimodal center.

As it is, Amtrack and the buildings over there really feels like the "wrong side of the tracks". The NCRR's fence along The Depot property reinforces this too.

[JTsaysToYou]

I really like the picture of the Asheville project. Have you considered showing this "Asheville project" to the people at the CAM? I am a bit worried that the people at CAM and there architects are going to give Raleigh a not so hot project. Kind of like the old Pine State Creamery building or the Exploris Museum. Both in need of a fresher (outside) look IMHO!