The Depot

[ncwebguy]

The only "thought" put into the trio of bars was naming the sports bar after the hockey team, putting a mechanical bull and bartenders in daisy dukes in the country section and no thought whatsoever into the dance part. No marketing, borderline drink specials, etc. The wings thing sounded cool, but is that enough? Apparently not. The space was too loud, especially with the punching bag game.

If the bars opened around the time of the Uncle Kracker concert, they might have had a chance to build on that, but the bars opened over a month later. Screwing the employees *and* the plumbing contractor is not what the area needs. The Deep South bar isn't helping the area either.

Where are people who were lining up to get into ess, etc. going now? The bars on West street near Glenwood? Nowhere?

I hope the Pit, White Collar Crime, Mosquito, and Humble Pie keep the area viable until the convention center comes online.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I don't think any of these places, closed or still open, have any character whatsoever. Thanks for investing in Raleigh all the way from Rochester, but it takes someone like Greg Hatem of Empire who lives here to understand what the market is asking for, and even he lost out on Nana's (surprise, its on this strip too) and the Buffalo Burger place where Morning Times is now. It seems commercial is constatnly trying to get out in front of the residential development...it takes a chicken to lay an egg....This little strip of clubs would do better if 1000 people in mid-rise condos and apartments lived within a two-block radius.

[Jones_]

But who defines character ???? Jones, I have heard you mention Slims and Jackpot. I would say, if Raleigh is waiting on more bars like that than we are in bigger trouble than we know. It takes all kinds to make a city. I like Slims and go often but Jackpot is a ****hole and I have no desire to go there and never have. Most people could care less about those places and their character is they were started with little money and are dumps. The last thing this city needs are bars that a certain breed think are cool or shall I say......."too cool" I would say the reason why these places closed was there are enough people of all kinds and maybe just too much of that "I'm cool in Raleigh and I only go to "insert name of bar".

I actually liked the Hurricane but that end of town is dead. Nana's is dead and I don't think Humbie Pie is killing it by any means.

And by no means am I waiting on Greg Hatem to open a place that meets my needs. That could take years if ever !!!! He hit it right with the Raleigh Times but it took him years to open a bar with 2 small rooms.

Maybe these guys were off a little out of NY, but they invested in Raleigh and I am glad of that and again, and I hope others try or Raleigh is dead as a city. I am not waiting for the next local yocal to start a place "I think is cool" Forget that. I want something bigger than that and bigger than "I am cool Raleigh"

Country club seclusion attitude is not

[DPK]

Now that I've calmed down a bit, lol...

What needs to happen to that area is residential. Some developer needs to step up and build condos/apartments/lofts along Davie (Harrington-Commerce-West block)/Cabbarus/Dawson. Not your typical conds/apartments, more like lofts with a "dirty" (in a clean way) warehouse feel to them. If that makes any sense. This area needs to remain a Depot area, to distinguish itself.

That area is going to keep failing unless places for people to live in a larger scale start to pop up. The Depot area is basically boxed in on an entire side by the railroad. Someone from this area with a creative mind needs to start brain storming.

/rant

[DPK]

Also I'm always amused by how land is divided up:

http://imaps.co.wake.nc.us/imaps/main.htm?...;pin=1703574460

Apparently the NCRR Co owns a small sliver of land (0.01 acres) next door to the Depot.

[castong]

Sullivans, Mosaic and Amras all take 'unique' in different directions. Ess, White Collar, Depot 3, Dirty, Aura/Rush all have the same, too clean, too $5 for a Bud, $8 vodka drink, blue light, crappy house music that you can't quite dance to or listen to atmosphere. They don't lend themselves to long term success because they do not offer food, are not real live music venues, are not real dance clubs, and are not veritable cheap drinking holes, any proven stablizing tool.

[tjoad]

N&O's Warehouse district's prospects dim

The title of the article is misleading because the article itself doesn't really paint a dreary picture on the future of this area. The bulk of the artice talks about the conflict between the NCRR, the clubs' owner, and the contractors.

I'm not really sure why they titled the article this way. It was three poorly planned bars/clubs that closed. Not every concept, especially bars and clubs, will survive. They do not mention any of the other more successful bars and restaurants in the area. Another thing, this area doesn't YET have the nearby residential support (and transit station?) needed for them to thrive. In my opinion, the warehouse district's prospects are as bright as ever .

[DPK]

N&O's Warehouse district's prospects dim

[Jones_]

For some reason I always thought punching either Harrington or West street through to Cabarrus would help the area...maybe its because I drive in from the south, but some street connectivity seems liek it would help....on street parking then around Amtrak could feed the Depot and area. The area is hopelessly crammed in a corner and teh amount of cars you can fit in there plus people willing to walk can only support so many places. Residential would help support more places for sure, but even I am not sure I would want the whole Ess/White Collar crowd out my window...

[RaleighRob]

Residential would help support more places for sure, but even I am not sure I would want the whole Ess/White Collar crowd out my window...

[DanRNC]

The title didn't even explain the bulk of the story which seems to involve financial "he said she said". I have to say Hagel seems to always overblow every article he writes-it seems to be very formulaic at the N and Blow.

[ChiefJoJo]

Now that I've calmed down a bit, lol...

What needs to happen to that area is residential. Some developer needs to step up and build condos/apartments/lofts along Davie (Harrington-Commerce-West block)/Cabbarus/Dawson. Not your typical conds/apartments, more like lofts with a "dirty" (in a clean way) warehouse feel to them. If that makes any sense. This area needs to remain a Depot area, to distinguish itself.

That area is going to keep failing unless places for people to live in a larger scale start to pop up. The Depot area is basically boxed in on an entire side by the railroad. Someone from this area with a creative mind needs to start brain storming.

[DPK]

For some reason I always thought punching either Harrington or West street through to Cabarrus would help the area... The area is hopelessly crammed in a corner

[RaleighRob]

Recall that we have Hue under construction nearby, CAM condos in design phase, and the RCC & L Bldg going in just across Dawson St. If the STAC can ever figure that transit thing out, then this area will likely be the prime target for initiating new development from TTA/Cherokee. They own several blocks on Hargett St--the former Dillon Supply warehouses. That could easily be the catalyst that takes things to new heights. I do think that residential is the key to stabilizing things there, because right now, the only nights there is much going on is Fri/Sat--the rest of the week, I think it's fairly dead.

[raleightransplant]

Count me as someone who is glad these places didn't pan out. Lame lame lame...MUCH better things are on the horizon with CAM I promise. Raleigh's an up and coming place--surely we can do much better. Sure would be nice to have a couple bohemian or just laid back hangouts in that area. I think that would work. I won't criticize the Hurricane as much, because--well--it's a sports bar. Soho East though? What? Blazing Saddles? Man, that sounds like something from 2002 and was lame even back then.

[Jones_]

It's too bad the rail yard is basically blocking any connectivity. Just roughly estimating from an aerial, both streets would either have to cross over or under about 8 tracks. The best I think that could be done is to connect western Davie to southern West Street at a curve alongside the rail.

http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=35....p;z=18&om=1

[ncwebguy]

Because of the train yard, there are only three roads that continue west past the train tracks from the Depot/warehouse district -- Morgan, Hargett and Cabarrus.

Morgan is the "flattest" of the bunch, but there is a valley west of Glenwood and the sidewalks are narrow from Shelton's furniture to Men at Work auto detailing. Also, this feeds the Buckhead/Aries/Flying Saucer/Borough area more than the Depot.

Hargett rises quickly west of the tracks, making walking and biking a true climb going west. The at-grade crossing isn't terrible, but nothing to look at either. The empty Dillon Warehouses (minus Five Star) are *not* inviting. There was a shop down there somewhere a few months ago, but I don't know if it is still open. Also, Boylan Heights residents need to use the narrow sidewalks on the Boylan bridge to get to Hargett.

Cabarrus *should* be a good connector to Boylan Heights, but the PSNC gas terminal's smell is extremely pedestrian unfriendly. Even getting past that, Cabarrus goes down a steep valley before a steep rise to Boylan. Also, the neighborhood from the Amtrack station to Kinsey is dicey, with kudzu overgrowing the bottom of the valley. If PSNC cleaned up its act, there could be a "bohemian" area in the warehouses along Dupont Circle from Antfarm and blam to Cabarrus. There was a sign for a tower (the metropolitan?) south of Cabarrus on the small part of South Harrington south of the tracks. It was supposed to open years ago. Maybe with everything happening downtown, they can revisit building a tower there?

The multi-modal station will enhance connectivity, both locally and via transit, but that is years away. Four or five more buildings similar to Hue and what the CAM is proposing would add density and activity to the area. That is where Cherokee could make a big splash and a transit village that happens to be on the west edge of downtown as well make the warehouse district's *potential* prospects quite bright.

[Gard]

An article in the N&O this morning clarifies why the 3 bars closed. It appears to have been over a dispute with the owner of the building, NCRR. The owner of the 3 bars said they were all on target to turn a profit in 6 months.

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/773282.html

[ncwebguy]

I think this quote is promising:

Saylor said office, retail or entertainment tenants would be considered for the former Southern Railway depot, which the NCRR renovated for $2 million in 2003. "We've already gotten several calls," Saylor said.

[JeffC]

Let's just hope the people moving into the new Hue don't feel the same way about the nightclubs on that half of the Warehouse District, or even more clubs will start shutting down.

Cuz if longtime clubs like CC, Legends, and Berkley Cafe hit the dust, then the N&O's "Warehouse District's Prospects Dim" headline would be more true.

[Cecil]

Cast your votes. The results aren't surprising reading the feedback on WRAL pages though...

http://wral.com/news/local/poll/2041758/?show_poll=1

[ChiefJoJo]

Cast your votes. The results aren't surprising reading the feedback on WRAL pages though...

http://wral.com/news/local/poll/2041758/?show_poll=1

[edrico]

We went to Hurricane about a month ago, early evening on a college football saturday. I'm intrigued by new restaurants/bars, so decided to check it out. Lets just say i'm not at all surprised its out of business already. They had zero beers on tap, and the food was horrendous (i even sent back my "french dip" which was like shoe leather, and got a bad burger as replacement). There was one other customer when we walked in, and although a some more customers showed up by the time we left, the other two bars were still completely empty.

Bad, bad place. Our waitress was fun and personable... the rest of the business was doomed.

[JeffC]

We went to Hurricane about a month ago, early evening on a college football saturday. I'm intrigued by new restaurants/bars, so decided to check it out. Lets just say i'm not at all surprised its out of business already. They had zero beers on tap, and the food was horrendous (i even sent back my "french dip" which was like shoe leather, and got a bad burger as replacement). There was one other customer when we walked in, and although a some more customers showed up by the time we left, the other two bars were still completely empty.

Bad, bad place. Our waitress was fun and personable... the rest of the business was doomed.

[Jones_]

Napper Tandys seems to be a half-hearted version of Hibernian or Tir-na-Nog. Napper neither feels intimate (like Hibernian) nor busy and bustling because the bar cleaves the space in into isolated spaces. Hi-5 always seemed to me to be competing with its two sisters already in 510...the styles of all three are similar to me despite the attempt to make the wholly different. Depot suffered from too much of the same (even though the places were "different" they were clearly hatched from the same goose) and I can see where Rocky Tops 510 three might be battling that a little. I don't go there much but remember tryingto figure out what Hi-5's schtick was...dance club? Restaurant? Place to watch the game? Its hard to do all three well at once. Depot stands a better chance if three different owners come in with three different ideas, run in their own style....heck it could be office space even, Design Box, Clearscapes and Centerline all make nice creative firms occupying warehouse space. Heck I think the Ess space as a sandwich shop/cafe and the rest of the depot as techie space makes a better downtown anyway.