Renaissance Tower Development in Fayetteville

[masons_dad1]

I believe the backs of those buildings will pretty much be up against the future Renaissance Tower. I'm pretty sure the development is going to take up the entire open area on this block.

What about being visible from the inside of the Renaissance Tower. Who's going to pay for that view?

[Mith242]

What about being visible from the inside of the Renaissance Tower. Who's going to pay for that view?

I could be wrong but I always thought that the building would be built basically right up against those other buildings or very close to them. Perhaps that's where the parking deck area will be, that would make a lot more sense.

[masons_dad1]

The Renaissance Tower barely escaped becoming an abandoned project. But, the future of big developments in Fayetteville and pretty much any city that is counting on TIF funds to pay for infrastructure improvements for these big developments is going to be challenging. Basically the State says the TIF's will not be available for developments, while the cities argue that a new law allows their use for development. The following article links explain it a little better.

http://nwanews.com/nwat/News/37863/

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2006/0...ews/334498.html

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/146836/

[Mith242]

The Renaissance Tower barely escaped becoming an abandoned project. But, the future of big developments in Fayetteville and pretty much any city that is counting on TIF funds to pay for infrastructure improvements for these big developments is going to be challenging. Basically the State says the TIF's will not be available for developments, while the cities argue that a new law allows their use for development. The following article links explain it a little better.

http://nwanews.com/nwat/News/37863/

http://www.arkansasnews.com/archive/2006/0...ews/334498.html

http://www.nwanews.com/adg/News/146836/

Looks like the TIF issue just won't go away. It does sound like they really need to hammer everything out so there won't be any questions on what you can and can't do. Some of the articles were a bit confusing though. The first one mentioned something about that it was a good thing the Fayetteville City Council scaled back plans. I want to know what these other plans are. In this case they basically used the TIF to tear down the building so then they could get developers more interested in doing a project there. Were they considering tearing down more? Maybe they were originally wanting to take on more of the development themselves instead of turning over to developers.

[masons_dad1]

Looks like the TIF issue just won't go away. It does sound like they really need to hammer everything out so there won't be any questions on what you can and can't do. Some of the articles were a bit confusing though. The first one mentioned something about that it was a good thing the Fayetteville City Council scaled back plans. I want to know what these other plans are. In this case they basically used the TIF to tear down the building so then they could get developers more interested in doing a project there. Were they considering tearing down more? Maybe they were originally wanting to take on more of the development themselves instead of turning over to developers.

The scale back they mentioned was referring to the Phase II part of the Renaissance Tower. Fayetteville didn't actually use the 25 mills TIF toward the initial development of Renaissance which is why it's safe to say it will be built no matter what. Fayetteville is now waiting to see if the new law about TIFs will allow them to use the 25 mills toward developments without being sued left an right.

Rogers is currently waiting to see what happens in Fayetteville before using TIF funds to develop the New Hope Road/I-540 interchange.

[Mith242]

The scale back they mentioned was referring to the Phase II part of the Renaissance Tower. Fayetteville didn't actually use the 25 mills TIF toward the initial development of Renaissance which is why it's safe to say it will be built no matter what. Fayetteville is now waiting to see if the new law about TIFs will allow them to use the 25 mills toward developments without being sued left an right.

Rogers is currently waiting to see what happens in Fayetteville before using TIF funds to develop the New Hope Road/I-540 interchange.

But what is or was phase 2? I had gotten the impression that the development is pretty much in the hands of others now and not in the city's. I believe they used the TIF they set up just for the demolition and then sold the property to developers. I think the city felt they had to do the demolition to give some incentive for a developer to take over and do something in that area.

[masons_dad1]

But what is or was phase 2? I had gotten the impression that the development is pretty much in the hands of others now and not in the city's. I believe they used the TIF they set up just for the demolition and then sold the property to developers. I think the city felt they had to do the demolition to give some incentive for a developer to take over and do something in that area.

That's correct. The city is only responsible for the infrastructure improvements to create the incentive for developers to move in and build. From what I gather from the articles Phase II was going to probably be to knock down those tenement-looking buildings adjacent to the Renaissance Tower, but I'm just guessing on that. The reason Phase II never got mentioned probably lies with the fact that it would take TIF funds to pay for it and the TIF issue is in the courts already.

If these 25 mills of TIF funds are allowed to be redirected to developments then it means millions of dollars in the cities reserves for infrastructure improvements. The lawsuits are coming from the schools complaints that the funds are strictly theirs, whereas this new law is confusing and cities all over Arkansas say the law allows them to redirect the 25 mills TIF for developments. Rogers is hoping to use the 25 mills TIF to redirect around $4 million to go towards the New Hope Road expansion.

[Mith242]

OnDickson already mentioned this in another topic but it looks like the developers are wanting to add two more stories to this project and make the building 18 stories. But for now it's still on hold till the city council talks some more about building heights. It sounds as if if the city doesn't make up it's mind in May then there's a good chance they'll be able to go ahead. Although I imagine it's still possible to talk them into it even if the restrictions are passed. It's been my understanding that exceptions can be made for good developments even if the building heights restrictions are officially put into effect. Of course talking the city council into it might be easier said than done. But I don't think two more stories on a nice development like this should really be too much of a problem. I don't mind seeing some building height restrictions in place but I do think they numbers talked about so far are a bit too low.

[RemusCal]

Just wanted to let everyone know that in the paper today they announced that the Rennaissance Tower in Downtown Fayetteville will get a Renaissance Hotel (a brand of Marriott). It will be high end with a restaurant and other amenities. This is the first Renaissance Hotel in the state. That is big news for here. I think we need another luxury hotel in Rogers near the Embassy. We could use a Ritz Carlton or Sheraton. I do think the market is ready for another luxury hotel in Rogers or Bentonville. The embassy is nice, but how about another choice to choose from. The perfect location for one would be off New Hope road or at Pleasant Grove. Both locations near shopping would be an ideal place for this. Then, the business travelers can spend their money at these places when they fly in. More tax money for the county.

[strmchsr77]

Just wanted to let everyone know that in the paper today they announced that the Rennaissance Tower in Downtown Fayetteville will get a Renaissance Hotel (a brand of Marriott). It will be high end with a restaurant and other amenities. This is the first Renaissance Hotel in the state. That is big news for here. I think we need another luxury hotel in Rogers near the Embassy. We could use a Ritz Carlton or Sheraton. I do think the market is ready for another luxury hotel in Rogers or Bentonville. The embassy is nice, but how about another choice to choose from. The perfect location for one would be off New Hope road or at Pleasant Grove. Both locations near shopping would be an ideal place for this. Then, the business travelers can spend their money at these places when they fly in. More tax money for the county.

Marriott also wants the developers to make the hotel larger with a total of 200 rooms. This is going to add two more stories to the building making it 18 stories.

[masons_dad1]

Just wanted to let everyone know that in the paper today they announced that the Rennaissance Tower in Downtown Fayetteville will get a Renaissance Hotel (a brand of Marriott). It will be high end with a restaurant and other amenities. This is the first Renaissance Hotel in the state. That is big news for here. I think we need another luxury hotel in Rogers near the Embassy. We could use a Ritz Carlton or Sheraton. I do think the market is ready for another luxury hotel in Rogers or Bentonville. The embassy is nice, but how about another choice to choose from. The perfect location for one would be off New Hope road or at Pleasant Grove. Both locations near shopping would be an ideal place for this. Then, the business travelers can spend their money at these places when they fly in. More tax money for the county.

A Ritz Carlton in NWA is a ridiculous idea. Sheraton and Renaissance are slightly better than the Embassy Suites but still not really "luxury" hotels... they may be luxury to Arkansas, but just not to the rest of the world.

[Aporkalypse]

A Ritz Carlton in NWA is a ridiculous idea. Sheraton and Renaissance are slightly better than the Embassy Suites but still not really "luxury" hotels... they may be luxury to Arkansas, but just not to the rest of the world.

Honestly, I think NWA is ready for a Hilton again. A Wyndham is a nice chain of similar stature that might do well up there. I agree with your assessment of the brands. A luxury hotel might go over well in NWA but I don't think it could be a large chain like the Ritz-Carlton - it would have to be a small, boutique hotel. These go over quite well with the academic types that visit the UA campus frequently so I think it would be only natural to put something like that on or near the Square.

[mcheiss]

I myself would like to see a Non Affiliated Chain Hotel come into Downtown Fayetteville, Rogers, or Bentonvilel. Something like the Capitol Hotel in Little Rock. Something truely upscale with all the real ammenities, and a large spa, something this area doesn't have.

[Mith242]

Just wanted to let everyone know that in the paper today they announced that the Rennaissance Tower in Downtown Fayetteville will get a Renaissance Hotel (a brand of Marriott). It will be high end with a restaurant and other amenities. This is the first Renaissance Hotel in the state. That is big news for here. I think we need another luxury hotel in Rogers near the Embassy. We could use a Ritz Carlton or Sheraton. I do think the market is ready for another luxury hotel in Rogers or Bentonville. The embassy is nice, but how about another choice to choose from. The perfect location for one would be off New Hope road or at Pleasant Grove. Both locations near shopping would be an ideal place for this. Then, the business travelers can spend their money at these places when they fly in. More tax money for the county.

Marriott also wants the developers to make the hotel larger with a total of 200 rooms. This is going to add two more stories to the building making it 18 stories.

Thanks for the info guys. I had wondered why the sudden decision to add two more stories. I need to get back over to the site sometime and see if they've started doing anything aside from ground work. Things have been a bit slow over there it seems.

[DickSonstreetDFW]

Honestly, I think NWA is ready for a Hilton again. A Wyndham is a nice chain of similar stature that might do well up there. I agree with your assessment of the brands. A luxury hotel might go over well in NWA but I don't think it could be a large chain like the Ritz-Carlton - it would have to be a small, boutique hotel. These go over quite well with the academic types that visit the UA campus frequently so I think it would be only natural to put something like that on or near the Square.

Isn't Dallas just now getting a Ritz Carlton? They don't just plop those down any old place.

[Aporkalypse]

Isn't Dallas just now getting a Ritz Carlton? They don't just plop those down any old place.

Yeah, the first one in Texas is being constructed Uptown on McKinney. There are no plans (yet) for one in Houston, San Antonio, or Austin.

[masons_dad1]

Honestly, I think NWA is ready for a Hilton again. A Wyndham is a nice chain of similar stature that might do well up there. I agree with your assessment of the brands. A luxury hotel might go over well in NWA but I don't think it could be a large chain like the Ritz-Carlton - it would have to be a small, boutique hotel. These go over quite well with the academic types that visit the UA campus frequently so I think it would be only natural to put something like that on or near the Square.

Hilton would be a good solid name and more fitting for NWA. If this Renaissance is as big as it sounds then there may not be much more need for hotel accomodations in Fayetteville. As for Rogers, they're adding a second tower to Embassy Suites which will fulfill much of the need for hotel accomodations and Springdale has a new large multi-story hotel being built along with Bentonville's several fairly large hotels.

[Mith242]

KNWA mentioned some of the info posted here not long ago. They made it sound like it was official that it was be an extra two stories. But I don't recall ever hearing that the city ok'd that so I don't know. Not sure if they jumped the gun on that or what. Anyway they also mentioned a convention center being part of the development which I don't recall hearing anything about either. I'm wondering if there's been a number of changes made since this topic was originally posted. It sounds like constructionwon't start till this summer and is supposed to be finished in the fall of 2007.

[strmchsr77]

From what I understand, it was approved as a 16 story tower, but since they have to make it 18, it is going to have to come back through some sort of pc/council approval. Which brings us back to the hieght restriction ordeal...

[Mith242]

That's what I understood as well. I bet KNWA jumped the gun and thought that the two extra floors had already been approved.

[RemusCal]

Fayetteville needs to get over this low height restriction ordeal. I am not saying we want buildings like 55 stories tall, but I don't think 20 stories or less is any big deal at all. I want to see Fayetteville go vertical. And just imagine the view of the ozarks you would get if you lived or stayed in one of the buildings. It would be beautiful. Plus, it is cheaper and a better investment to build up as well. Fayetteville better not limit itself too much or it will just fall off in the dust. Rogers is booming right now and it won't be long before they start going more vertical in Rogers.

[Aporkalypse]

Fayetteville needs to get over this low height restriction ordeal. I am not saying we want buildings like 55 stories tall, but I don't think 20 stories or less is any big deal at all. I want to see Fayetteville go vertical. And just imagine the view of the ozarks you would get if you lived or stayed in one of the buildings. It would be beautiful. Plus, it is cheaper and a better investment to build up as well. Fayetteville better not limit itself too much or it will just fall off in the dust. Rogers is booming right now and it won't be long before they start going more vertical in Rogers.

I think a 20-story cap is reasonable. A couple of large hotels would be nice but you don't want to replace the existing streetscape in Fayetteville with high rises.

[Mith242]

I have to agree with RemusCal. I'm also not saying we need a lot of tall buildings but it just seems like anything over 4 stories in the city is subject to controversy. I'm also more of a proponent of building upward rather than outward. I personally don't want to see suburbs extending out to the Madison-Newton County line in my lifetime. I do know the city will have to spread out but I think it makes more sense to build upward. It just has to be done responsibly. And building upward doesn't mean it has to be 50 or even 30 stories tall. Depending on where they are located I think the city could put in some 15-20 story buildings without detracting from the 'feel' of the city. But as real estate continues to rise developments are going to have to go up or they simply won't be feasible.

[strmchsr77]

I have to agree with RemusCal. I'm also not saying we need a lot of tall buildings but it just seems like anything over 4 stories in the city is subject to controversy. I'm also more of a proponent of building upward rather than outward. I personally don't want to see suburbs extending out to the Madison-Newton County line in my lifetime. I do know the city will have to spread out but I think it makes more sense to build upward. It just has to be done responsibly. And building upward doesn't mean it has to be 50 or even 30 stories tall. Depending on where they are located I think the city could put in some 15-20 story buildings without detracting from the 'feel' of the city. But as real estate continues to rise developments are going to have to go up or they simply won't be feasible.

I could not agree more with what you have said. I have been trying to stress this same kind of thinking. It just makes since. Everyone likes to complain about sprawl, so the developers have started going upward, and now you have these same people complaining about that. I don't think that you can make everyone happy, but there seems to be no pleasing this group.

So in general what does a city's population have to reach to start thinking upward? I am sure it depends on many factors such as topography, nearby cities, and rate of growth, etc. Fayetteville seems to be at this point with an estimated population of 75,000. What do you think?

[Mith242]

I could not agree more with what you have said. I have been trying to stress this same kind of thinking. It just makes since. Everyone likes to complain about sprawl, so the developers have started going upward, and now you have these same people complaining about that. I don't think that you can make everyone happy, but there seems to be no pleasing this group.

So in general what does a city's population have to reach to start thinking upward? I am sure it depends on many factors such as topography, nearby cities, and rate of growth, etc. Fayetteville seems to be at this point with an estimated population of 75,000. What do you think?

Like you said there's a lot of factors involved. At lot of cities built up in some areas just to try to show that they're a 'real' city. Of course Fayetteville doesn't fit that pattern. Overall I think it has more to do with real estate prices. I think that's the main reason developments to build up. When it just gets too expensive to buy land to have a spread out development.