Roanoke Stores and Retail

[weill]

Not the city of Roanoke, I think its a far shot from getting one, but maybe in the more rich southern part of Roanoke county.

[StevenRocks]

What do you think the chances are that Roanoke would see a Nordstrom pop up in the next few years??

Not likely.

[designerjunkie48]

Not likely.

Well that sucks! I just love that store. I am just itching for better retail in Roanoke....as you can probably tell!!

[14gameshows]

Anything above a MACY*S in Roanoke is unlikely...unless thousands of people fast and pray about it!

Nordstroms I'm not in favor of one of them, however if I were on the Planning Commission in Roanoke County (where the money is!) I would have done my best to stick in at Tanglewood Mall. Yes I know Tanglewood is or at least on the verge of just "sticking a fork in it cuz it's done" but with the new TJMAXX and Steve and Barry's Sportswear, Tanglewood might see some growth. Personally, I would have stuck Nordstroms at the old Brendle's wing (the new TJMaxx is there) however that would have created a big issue with a Nordstroms and a TJMaxx in the same wing. that makes no sense! I would have done some major redeveloping at Tanglewood if we were to lure in Nordstroms.

So in essence, the stores we will not see in Roanoke are....

Nordstroms

Saks

Off Saks

Lord and Taylors

Bloomingdales

Dillards (so close to them in the Carolinas but never made it up here, not even in Danville...sad)

heck we can't even get a Kohl's in Roanoke for some odd reason...Roanoke's average income is well above Kohl's standards but I heard that Kohl's is going to Lynchburg though, which I won't mind the 45 minute drive...I have family there too so that helps!

Is it me or when I mention Kohl's to people, they go crazy??? I personally love going to Kohl's out there in Greensboro on West Wendover Rd.

[StevenRocks]

Well that sucks! I just love that store. I am just itching for better retail in Roanoke....as you can probably tell!!

I think a lot of us are.

Is it me or when I mention Kohl's to people, they go crazy??? I personally love going to Kohl's out there in Greensboro on West Wendover Rd.

People really dig Kohl's. I'm not a fan, but I do go from time to time, especially on Wendover.

[BGW]

Is it me or when I mention Kohl's to people, they go crazy??? I personally love going to Kohl's out there in Greensboro on West Wendover Rd.

I wouldn't say I "go crazy" but I do shop at Kohl's more often than other stores of its ilk. I've noticed their stores tend to be in strips rather than traditional malls. I wonder if a lack of such strips is what's keeping them from Roanoke.

[14gameshows]

Well there was a lot of vacant space at Towne Square a while back before Bed, Bath & Beyond, Marshalls, Shoe Carnival, & Ross came to the center. But Kohl's is a big department store so I don't know if vacant space was a factor or not?

[designerjunkie48]

Anything above a MACY*S in Roanoke is unlikely...unless thousands of people fast and pray about it!

Nordstroms I'm not in favor of one of them, however if I were on the Planning Commission in Roanoke County (where the money is!) I would have done my best to stick in at Tanglewood Mall. Yes I know Tanglewood is or at least on the verge of just "sticking a fork in it cuz it's done" but with the new TJMAXX and Steve and Barry's Sportswear, Tanglewood might see some growth. Personally, I would have stuck Nordstroms at the old Brendle's wing (the new TJMaxx is there) however that would have created a big issue with a Nordstroms and a TJMaxx in the same wing. that makes no sense! I would have done some major redeveloping at Tanglewood if we were to lure in Nordstroms.

So in essence, the stores we will not see in Roanoke are....

Nordstroms

Saks

Off Saks

Lord and Taylors

Bloomingdales

Dillards (so close to them in the Carolinas but never made it up here, not even in Danville...sad)

heck we can't even get a Kohl's in Roanoke for some odd reason...Roanoke's average income is well above Kohl's standards but I heard that Kohl's is going to Lynchburg though, which I won't mind the 45 minute drive...I have family there too so that helps!

Is it me or when I mention Kohl's to people, they go crazy??? I personally love going to Kohl's out there in Greensboro on West Wendover Rd.

One place that I would like to get would a Lord and Taylor, but unfortunately Federated is not going to keep the company. If they aren't to sell off the stores within the year then all Lord and Taylor stores will close. It truly is a shame, but what are we to do.

One store that I haven't heard mentioned on this site is a Sephora. The last time I was in Raleigh I talked to a women about the company, and she said that Sephora has opened or has plans to open 50 new stores nationwide. I told her about Roanoke, and she said she had heard not too long ago of a Sephora possibly hitting our area. Personally, I think it would be an amazing choice!

[StevenRocks]

One store that I haven't heard mentioned on this site is a Sephora. The last time I was in Raleigh I talked to a women about the company, and she said that Sephora has opened or has plans to open 50 new stores nationwide. I told her about Roanoke, and she said she had heard not too long ago of a Sephora possibly hitting our area. Personally, I think it would be an amazing choice!

If Roanoke does get a Sephora, it'll probably be inside one or both of the JCPenney stores. The two retailers signed an agreement to place Sephora stores inside JCPenney locations.

[designerjunkie48]

If Roanoke does get a Sephora, it'll probably be inside one or both of the JCPenney stores. The two retailers signed an agreement to place Sephora stores inside JCPenney locations.

So wait...they are actually putting a Sephora inside of the JCPenney Stores. Will it be similar to the boutiques that are located in Raleigh. Places that certainly aren't as big as the Sephora stores in NYC or Washington, but still enough selection to offer for those lines that aren't currently carried in the area?

I have never heard about this. Do you have a link to a story on it?

[designerjunkie48]

Nevermind. I did my research, and from what every article that I have read about the Sephora and JCPenneys initiative, it seems as if they have plans to open a "store-within-a-store" in every JCPenney's nationwide. Sounds exciting. I would love to be able to talk to management over at either one of the Penney's stores to see when they expect to have the counter built. In the articles it says as early as Fall 2006. But we all no how timelines in retail go....

[StevenRocks]

Nevermind. I did my research, and from what every article that I have read about the Sephora and JCPenneys initiative, it seems as if they have plans to open a "store-within-a-store" in every JCPenney's nationwide. Sounds exciting. I would love to be able to talk to management over at either one of the Penney's stores to see when they expect to have the counter built. In the articles it says as early as Fall 2006. But we all no how timelines in retail go....

Roanoke has a good chance of getting some of the first Sephora mini-stores because both JCPenney stores are remodeling right now. No timeline for that inititve or the remodelings in general to report.

[bmedguy]

Anyone like me think Roanoke City would benefit from ditching incentives for the suburban type malls for further development and throw efforts into encouraging developers to think big (e.g. Slate Hill type big) on puting something together to encourage new retailers to see downtown as the FIRST option? Other places have done it. Why not us?

[mclawsdrive]

I agree, as long as culturally valuable places arent destroyed in the process. The area where the old YMCA building is would be perfect for a major development. Tear that building down and you've got almost an entire square block to develop (most of the rest of the block is a parking lot. And as always, Coca Cola plant would make a great mixed use retail area. Its got plenty of space for a large scale development.

[StevenRocks]

Valley View's incentive package came from the fact that is an existing, popular mall that's within the city limits. Roanoke in general is a little leery of large-scale downtown retail, so even if you build it, it's questionable if anybody would come, development incentives or not.

[bmedguy]

Valley View's incentive package came from the fact that is an existing, popular mall that's within the city limits. Roanoke in general is a little leery of large-scale downtown retail, so even if you build it, it's questionable if anybody would come, development incentives or not.

Not disputed. Valley View is well established and I am not saying it does not have benefit. It definitely does. However, it is well established and as such needs little help to keep it going. What I'm proposing is completely different and a missing shopping experience for Roanoke. One wher storefronts are outdoors and shopping is based on foot traffic as opposed to a place you drive from one spot to another. Downtown could offer condensed retail with publicly inviting areas where you go there and park in one spot for the whole day. Roanoke has nothing like this currently and if done well, I believe folks would come in droves. I avoid malls like the plague. To me they are sterile and uninviting. I go there now because I must. I have talked with many like minded people. There are many that long for downtown to become a primary shopping destination. People said Fresh Market would fail. It's done anything but, reviving the upper part of crossroads. Ukrops will do great. A shop here and there won't do it for downtown, but if say pottery barn or restoration hardware or other places of that nature were attracted to a large pedestrian friendly downtown development, I bet you anything people would come.

[bmedguy]

I agree, as long as culturally valuable places arent destroyed in the process. The area where the old YMCA building is would be perfect for a major development. Tear that building down and you've got almost an entire square block to develop (most of the rest of the block is a parking lot. And as always, Coca Cola plant would make a great mixed use retail area. Its got plenty of space for a large scale development.

Agreed. I would say that incorporating historical and culturally significant buildings into any project should be required. The old Heironimous building for instance has great potential and could be part of a larger scale development to establish Jefferson Street as a first class retail area. Why not think big while restoring what is already in place and gives Roanoke terrific character. I'm not proposing any destruction (except maybe Jefferson Lodge) but there are plenty of parking lots for new construction as well as empty store fronts for rehabilitation that would only add to, not take away the character of what already exists.

[mclawsdrive]

I think a jefferson st. retail corridor would be a lot more feasible if the proposed trolley line along jefferson st is built. That way, people could park in areas farther from the stores they plan to visit. The problem right now is that most national chain stores have formulas for parking and they won't touch a downtown unless they have plenty of parking very close by. And usually that means bulldozing huge areas to put in a parking lot (suburbanizing the city). The way to avoid that is to prove to retailers that there will be plenty of access to their stores without the huge parking lots. Ie. try to replicate as closely as possible the environment of manhattan.

[14gameshows]

In my opinion, I think it's feasible for shopping to come back to the downtown area, however the City needs to re-invent Downtown Roanoke. I like the City's idea of allowing dining facilities to have tables and whatnots on the outside of the City Market building (which is a great idea) they need to do more of that....now if you add some sort of high-class (or even middle class) retailer, that should draw in the crowds...however Roanoke's problem with downtown is that the traffic is bad first of all, plus the lack of parking availible. Don't get me wrong, there's parking but you have to walk quite a bit.

I wonder how they did things back in the 60s and 70s??? Back in those days, you have HEIRONIMUS on Jefferson; Leggett, Woolworth, and Miller and Rhodes on Campbell Avenue? How did they manage then?

and for a 5 point bonus...how many floors were in the Miller and Rhodes store? I don't have the answer to that but I would like to know though.

[bmedguy]

I think a jefferson st. retail corridor would be a lot more feasible if the proposed trolley line along jefferson st is built. That way, people could park in areas farther from the stores they plan to visit. The problem right now is that most national chain stores have formulas for parking and they won't touch a downtown unless they have plenty of parking very close by. And usually that means bulldozing huge areas to put in a parking lot (suburbanizing the city). The way to avoid that is to prove to retailers that there will be plenty of access to their stores without the huge parking lots. Ie. try to replicate as closely as possible the environment of manhattan.

Streetcars would go a long way. I hope they do it. Another way to get around the parking issue without suburbanizing is parking garages where the first floor is all storefront. Surface lots are not necessary to increase parking. Orvis is a good example of this in downtown Roanoke. There is a large parking garage there but from street level you hardly notice it save the entrance where cars come and go. Ideally, a substantial amount of parking could be below ground so that all above street level is inhabited. NY and Chicago (as well as other cities) have plenty of this so that the suburbanites have a place to park. The drawback is it is pricey and people would have to adjust to the idea of paying for parking. However, it keeps the continuity and walkability of the downtown district intact, thus giving downtown something unique to offer.

[BGW]

however Roanoke's problem with downtown is that the traffic is bad first of all

Downtown Roanoke's traffic may be many things, but "bad" is not one of them.

[wrldcoupe4]

spend one day in northern Virginia... that's bad traffic!

[StevenRocks]

I agree with a lot of things that you guys are saying. I would love to see major retail back downtown, because I have lot of things that I like that i can't get locally, and I really am not a fan of Valley View Mall.

But saying all that, there is a very limited market for new retail, period, in Roanoke, much less the nice boutiques that would work in the spaces downtown. There is money here, but a lot of it goes into cars and entertainment, not into upscale shopping. The high-paying job growth that would support new retail is lacking as well.

I wonder how they did things back in the 60s and 70s??? Back in those days, you have HEIRONIMUS on Jefferson; Leggett, Woolworth, and Miller and Rhodes on Campbell Avenue? How did they manage then?

and for a 5 point bonus...how many floors were in the Miller and Rhodes store? I don't have the answer to that but I would like to know though.

Back then, there were very few shopping options outside downtown, and not a lot of stores of that caliber in neighboring towns. People in Roanoke had fewer cars and lived closer to downtown as well.

The out-of-town business died off when shopping centers popped up outside downtown. Having free parking and longer hours in the suburbs pushed a lot of business their way. The neighborhoods around downtown turned into poor ones as well, so the shoppers that were nearby didn't have the dough to keep Heironimus, Legget or Miller & Rhoads in business. All of them began cutting back on floor space in the '70s and kept on until they were little more than small stores.

Miller & Rhoads had six or seven floors: five were full-sized, the sixth was the tea room, and there may have been a basement sales level.

[bmedguy]

All good points. Job growth with higher paying jobs is really needed to make the things I vision for this place to thrive. However, I do believe some of the forces you speak of that killed downtown years ago are starting to reverse. Colonial Arms building is sold out with condos in the half million dollar price range. The new garage lofts are going between 200 & 300 grand. In Old Southwest, there are houses going for well over 300 grand now (there is one down the street from me that is asking 360). This all indicates that there are people with money who are desiring to live downtown again. Of courese South Roanoke is a very wealthy neighborhood already clos to downtown. If we can make downtown a place that has something to offer that the car oriented areas can't, then I only see this trend getting stronger. I'm a big believer in if you build it they will come. As long as the trend indicates some momentum in that direction, then what you build will likely be successful. Indications are strong that downtown is revitalizing. My assertion is we should be bold in that push. I know I'm a bit of a dreamer, but how many people do you know personally who have made the drive to Charlotte or Raleigh or waited for the trip to DC, NY, CHI etc. to do major shopping. I have met several. There is a market here that is spending money in other places because it has to. Additionally, if Roanoke got higher end stores we would be a magnet for people from Lynchburg and NRV because they don't have this stuff either. We are in the right location to make it work. People in southwest VA and northern WVA have to drive too far to experience big city shopping currently. Roanoke could be a place to make it more accessible.

That being said, I know you have a good grasp on demographics and what stores are looking for to locate here and respect your expertise. I know they don't think it would work just looking at historical numbers. Someone needs to pitch this place beyond current stats though.

[StevenRocks]

I know I'm a bit of a dreamer, but how many people do you know personally who have made the drive to Charlotte or Raleigh or waited for the trip to DC, NY, CHI etc. to do major shopping. I have met several. There is a market here that is spending money in other places because it has to. Additionally, if Roanoke got higher end stores we would be a magnet for people from Lynchburg and NRV because they don't have this stuff either. We are in the right location to make it work. People in southwest VA and northern WVA have to drive too far to experience big city shopping currently. Roanoke could be a place to make it more accessible.

That being said, I know you have a good grasp on demographics and what stores are looking for to locate here and respect your expertise. I know they don't think it would work just looking at historical numbers. Someone needs to pitch this place beyond current stats though.

I am one of these people, though I'm not really that wealthy.

Strangely enough, before things started evening out income-wise in the region, Roanoke was the high-end mecca that you're mentioning. In Downtown Roanoke's heyday, it was about the only place you could get nice things west of Richmond. Even now, a lot of people come from southern West Virginia, Martinsville and Lynchburg to shop in Roanoke.

Your point is well taken about the potential to pull these folks back in, because some of them are coming to the area for cultural things anyway. Downtown has a pretty compelling retail package in the market area, in fact. But it drops off considerably to a lot of junky stores and nondescript businesses that shouldn't have storefront locations once you leave the Market/Jefferson corridor. That needs to be fixed, but it's going to take some work to reestablish the anchor stores and complimentary retail that's been lost over the past 40 years.