Next city to get a pro sports franchise?

[Sundodger]

The Hornets wont be staying in OKC, you can count on that.

There's a better chance they will remain in OKC than them being in New Orleans five years from now. The Hornets will end up in Las Vegas or OKC when it is all said and done.

[NCB]

There's a better chance they will remain in OKC than them being in New Orleans five years from now.

And this is based on...?

If the New Orleans situation is handled properly, and the city returns to normal, the Hornets will be back.

[Sundodger]

And this is based on...?

If the New Orleans situation is handled properly, and the city returns to normal, the Hornets will be back.

Moving the Hornets to New Orleans was a mistake in the first place. It is a small city (in NBA terms), relatively poor, small corporate base, not growing, & had another major sports team to compete with to boot. Attendance was poor & the hurricane certainly hasn't helped the situation any. They are gone. My bet is Las Vegas or OKC. OKC already has the arena.

[NCB]

Well, I dont want to turn this into another "what will happen to New Orleans" thread, so ill just continue with the sports.

I think that the next city to get a pro franchise will be Las Vegas, but it will not be from the N.O. Hornets moving to L.V. The Hornets will end up back in New Orleans, and Las Vegas will end up with a new expantion team.

There will ben an NFL team in Mexico City, its just a matter of time...

[habitat67]

I have heard and read a lot about the NFL expanding into Mexico City -- the recent 49ers game held in Mexico DF sold out -- something like 103,000 fans at te game.

[Sundodger]

^ I don't think the NFL is expanding anytime soon & if they do, it would be to put a team in Los Angeles.

[MadVlad]

Regarding the media markets, and the DMA's, they may or may not reflect the area's interest in a particular city's sports team.

TV media markets are determined by some forumla--not sure precisely--that takes into account how many of the broadcast network majors, NBC, CBS, ABC, and Fox, have an affiliate in a particular town, or whether that town gets the stations from the larger city.

I believe--again not sure precisely--if the town has 2 or more local affiliates of the majors, it is then counted as a separate TV market from the larger city down the road. Of course, having 1 affiliate or 3 affiliates doesn't mean that the locals in that town are necessarily interested or disinterested in the city's sports franchise.

The sales market for a team, in terms of ticket sales, marketing, etc., may well be different from the TV market.

The only impact I could see would be TV deals, yet if the interest is there in the smaller town, the town's affiliates would cover the city's teams anyway.

In the case of Hartford, we actually have other markets that are close (Springfield, Mass) that WOULD cover a team in Hartford, it's only 20 minutes away. So, by saying Hartford is the largest media market without a pro team doesn't even count Springfield (again, 20 minutes away), which, if added to the Hartford numbers would bring it up to #21, right near St. Louis....

[Viper]

Springfield is covered in the Hartford media market already. This isn't MSA figures, these are tabulated differently. Media markets cover the range at which the area can recieve the local broadcasting from TV, radio, newspaper, etc... If Springfield can get Hartford TV stations, it's already covered.

[superNOVA]

A Michigan forumer might could enlighten me on the situation, but I doubt GR could support one.

Grand Rapids is economically the second largest area in the nation without a pro team. Grand Rapids has a larger economy that Jacksonville and is close to the old New Orleans and Nashville. Even Vegas is still behind - for now...

When the Sporting News put together a spreadsheet showing viability of markets in terms of new teams or exapnsions the top three were Las Vegas, Grand Rapids, and I forget the third. The point is, there is a lot of money here, no competition from college sports (on any major level as the city is home to a lot of smaller colleges), and there are well over 2 million people within the magic one hour drive time window.

Other than being close to Detroit and Chicago (which I think would have less of an effect than expected) the market would be ideal.

[Sundodger]

Grand Rapids is economically the second largest area in the nation without a pro team. Grand Rapids has a larger economy that Jacksonville and is close to the old New Orleans and Nashville. Even Vegas is still behind - for now...

In 2003 LV had a greater Gross Metro Product than GR & doubt things have reversed. Using 2003 #s, the largest economic areas without pro-sports are:

1). New Haven, CT

2). Hartford, CT

3). Norfolk-Virginia Beach, VA

4). Las Vegas, NV

5). Austin, TX

6). Greensboro--Winston-Salem, NC

7). Richmond, VA

8). Rochester, NY

9). Albany, NY

10). Grand Rapids, MI

11). Louisville, KY-IN

12). Providence, RI

13). Wilmington, DE-MD

14). Oklahoma City, OK

15). Honolulu, HI

16). Birmingham, AL

17). Dayton-Springfield, OH

18). Syracuse, NY

19). Greenville-Spartanburg, SC

20). Fresno, CA

[samsonyuen]

I think Las Vegas is the largest market with no pro sports. But I don't know if the betting that takes place in the city will thwart that. Birmingham also has no teams of its own. I think Portland could handle a second team in the city, so could San Antonio/Austin.

[MadVlad]

In 2003 LV had a greater Gross Metro Product than GR & doubt things have reversed. Using 2003 #s, the largest economic areas without pro-sports are:

1). New Haven, CT

2). Hartford, CT

3). Norfolk-Virginia Beach, VA

4). Las Vegas, NV

5). Austin, TX

6). Greensboro--Winston-Salem, NC

7). Richmond, VA

8). Rochester, NY

9). Albany, NY

10). Grand Rapids, MI

11). Louisville, KY-IN

12). Providence, RI

13). Wilmington, DE-MD

14). Oklahoma City, OK

15). Honolulu, HI

16). Birmingham, AL

17). Dayton-Springfield, OH

18). Syracuse, NY

19). Greenville-Spartanburg, SC

20). Fresno, CA

Sundodger, can I get a link to where you fouund those numbers? I was looking like crazy one day for a recent GMR list and couldn't find one...

[MadVlad]

Springfield is covered in the Hartford media market already. This isn't MSA figures, these are tabulated differently. Media markets cover the range at which the area can recieve the local broadcasting from TV, radio, newspaper, etc... If Springfield can get Hartford TV stations, it's already covered.

Nope, it's not...

http://www.nielsenmedia.com/DMAs.html

Springfield is number 108.

That link is for you too, Samsonyuen, notice, Hartford #28, Las Vegas.... #48

[Viper]

Wow, that listing is farther from expectations that I, well, expected.

26 San Diego 1,026,160

27 Charlotte 1,020,130

28 Hartford & New Haven 1,013,350

29 Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 985,200

30 Nashville 927,500

42 Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 704,810

52 Jacksonville 624,220

53 Austin 589,360

Some of that is laughable. Nashville with over 200k more TV homes than Hampton Roads? 300k more than Jax and Austin? How do they draw these boundaries?

[Sundodger]

Sundodger, can I get a link to where you fouund those numbers? I was looking like crazy one day for a recent GMR list and couldn't find one...

Excel file:

www.usmayors.org/metroeconomies/1004/metroeconomiestables_1004.xls

[MadVlad]

Nice, thanks. It's funny, Hartford and New Haven are pretty close, yet separate on the list. If they were merged, it'd be number 10 or 11....

[superNOVA]

The catch is that sports leagues typically (all except baseball) do not use normal metro numbers - they use the magic one hour drive time. Within one hour of Grand Rapids you have the 1.3 million of the CSA, 500,000 in Kzoo, 500,000 in Lansing, and probably another 500,000 from the North lands and scattered in between.

In terms of sports audiences, Grand Rapids is effectively a 2.8 million person zone. Not bad, and clearly near the top of those without teams and much more than enough to economically support multiple teams.

[TennBear]

The catch is that sports leagues typically (all except baseball) do not use normal metro numbers - they use the magic one hour drive time. Within one hour of Grand Rapids you have the 1.3 million of the CSA, 500,000 in Kzoo, 500,000 in Lansing, and probably another 500,000 from the North lands and scattered in between.

In terms of sports audiences, Grand Rapids is effectively a 2.8 million person zone. Not bad, and clearly near the top of those without teams and much more than enough to economically support multiple teams.

One problem that Grand Rapids would run into is that Detroit would consider all of those people to be in it's area of interest and would ask for compensation. Look at the way that they draw up the maps for who views what team. I do not disagree with your numbers or the fact that Grand Rapids could support a team, but I can't imagine that Grand Rapids could get anything without compensation to Detroit.

I'm not certain that you were really pushing that Grand Rapids would be in the running, but just making a comparison in terms of numbers and ability to support such a team. IMHO, the areas that are most likely to get a team are those that effectively add new fans. Those areas that are outside of the television fan base for any other teams in whatever league. My exception is Las Vegas because the gambling issue and the fact that league don't want to be tied to gambling even if it drives interest in their sport.

[MadVlad]

The catch is that sports leagues typically (all except baseball) do not use normal metro numbers - they use the magic one hour drive time. Within one hour of Grand Rapids you have the 1.3 million of the CSA, 500,000 in Kzoo, 500,000 in Lansing, and probably another 500,000 from the North lands and scattered in between.

In terms of sports audiences, Grand Rapids is effectively a 2.8 million person zone. Not bad, and clearly near the top of those without teams and much more than enough to economically support multiple teams.

Those aren't Metro numbers that I posted, they are Media Market numbers. Besides, if you go by how many people are within an hour, Hartford would have over 5 Million, go to within 2 hours, up that to above 25 million (hello NY, Boston, and North Jersey....)

[Captain59]

If Springfield can get Hartford TV stations, it's already covered.

WFSB out of Hartford is Springfield's CBS affiliate.

Although I think Las Vegas will probably be the first city on the list to get a major league franchise (Hornets next year), I think Hartford will be the first on the list to get an NHL frahchise...probably within five years.

[mcheiss]

Las Vegas is a booming city inways, they seem like the best contendor.

[broysox]

WFSB out of Hartford is Springfield's CBS affiliate.

Wrong, Springfield has CBS TV 3 out of Springfield. It's a brand new station in a growing market. Although Springfield gets CBS-4 Boston and Agawam (the city below Springfield) gets Hartford stations, Springfield is still its own market with WWLP (Ch. 22 NBC) WGGB (Ch. 40 ABC) and WSHM (Ch. 3 CBS). Full set of radio stations and big daily paper (The Springfield Republican)

[broysox]

In the case of Hartford, we actually have other markets that are close (Springfield, Mass) that WOULD cover a team in Hartford, it's only 20 minutes away. So, by saying Hartford is the largest media market without a pro team doesn't even count Springfield (again, 20 minutes away), which, if added to the Hartford numbers would bring it up to #21, right near St. Louis....

You're absolutely right. Springfield would be the most underrated part of a pro team coming to Hartford. We share an airport, it would be ideal to share a pro team. I can see them building a stadium in Windsor Locks for us.

By the way, Hartford's numbers don't include Springfield.

[SOCOM]

Looks like Oklahoma City has jumped to first or second on the list after hosting some overly successful Hornets games. According to many NBA insiders, the league was very impressed with OKC's support.

[franko]

1st choice for a next NFL (international) team i would considered Monterey,Mexico 1st because its closer to the U.S and a bit safer than Mexico City Mexico

2nd choice would be Los Angeles,California only because they've been wanting one for a long time but that state has like 3 Pro teams already.

3rd Choice would be Toronto,Canada if NHL can substain going back and forth from canada to U.S why cant an NFL Team survive there Plus Football nationally is popular there they have the CFL.