Winston-Salem Northern Beltway

[cityboi]

There are a few differences bewteen Greensboro and Winston-Salem. In the downtowns, Winston-Salem is more built up in terms of tall buildings. But within the outer edges of town along the freeways, Greensboro is more built up. If you drive through Winston-Salem along Highway 52 or I-40, you really dont see alot of development until you get to the downtown area. Its mainly woods until you get within 2 or 3 miles from downtown. For what ever reason, Winston-Salem doesnt have as much sprawl development as Greensboro does. I remember back in the 1980s If you drove from the downtown area of Greensboro to PTI airport there was no development at all between Wendover Ave and the airport. Now there is development between Wendover and the airport and I-40 has gone from 2 lanes in each direction to 4 and 5 lanes in each direction.

Do you all think the beltway proposed for W-S will open the flood gates for more suburban retail development. What intersection do you think would see the most development along the I-74 beltway?

[DCB]

I really hope not. The last thing this area needs is more sprawl.

[DigitalSky]

I think, though, in terms of sprawl Charlotte certainly has a lot more of the traditional cul-de-sac sprawl. Greensboro is a lot better at keeping sprawl down, and i don't know a lot obout Winston. The beltway will probably promote sprawl though.. and a new mall, walmart, etc...

[cityboi]

certainly we'll see more residential development along the beltway and Winston-Salem might be ready for another mall. Greensboro has 2 if you count Friendly Center. Even though its an open-air mall, it has all the same stores you'd find in an enclosed mall like Belk, Hechts, Sears, Foot Locker, The Limited, Lerner New York, ect. A new mall near the future eastern loop in Winston-Salem might be a possibilty. Winston-Salem is approaching 200,000 people. As Dell and its suppliers build east of W-S, that means more residential. When there is more residential, that means more retail, restaurants ect.

[twincity]

It probably will promote sprawl, but this is one of those rare cases where sprawl is needed. I-74 will bring badly needed retail and other commercial development to East Winston.

As for Dell, the plant and its suppliers so far, are inside the city limits. We did lose one supplier to North High Point though.

[cityboi]

Twin City you may be right. Winston-Salem is in need of those kind of retail services. The question is will the city let it get out of control and will the city implement some regualtions on architectural design?

[twincity]

I doubt there will be strict site regulations for this side of town. Of course developers would have to stay within in the big-box regulations adopted by the city, but other than that, i cant imagine residents on the east side getting too upset about a new strip mall invading their neighborhood. Actually, council member Vivian Burke is working to attract a Wal-Mart to East Winston.

[AnEverydayJo]

I think that some sprawl will come with the beltway, but it's very needed especially in the Western portions of the city. You mentioned building of new Walmart's and I can't see it possible to support many more than the county currently has. Winston-Salem/Forsyth county currently has 3 with a 4 coming off Peter's Creek Pkwy/Hwy 150. Walmart themselves expressed interest in building in East Winston which I think would truly help the image that side of town currently has and will make it the 5th Super-Walmart in a county of only 300K.

Sprawl is definitely going to happen, hopefully if one "good" thing comes out of the the rise in gas prices, it will be way we travel to work and how far we live from our place(s) of employment. Winston has many areas already within the city for infill development. This trend is beginning to take root in many areas but the beltway will almost ensure sprawling development in the future. But as I've previously said, the beltway is very much needed since our roadways are almost at their limit and with the projected growth of the Triad in the years to come.

[sax184]

The W-S beltway is not needed, and it will cause more sprawl. Most of Greensboro is nothing but sprawl, save a few older neighborhoods near downtown and UNCG.

It will be interesting to see how long gas prices stay up. If they stay high for a year or more, much of the housing stock in the most auto-dependent areas of the Triad may become close to worthless.

[twincity]

The W-S beltway is not needed, and it will cause more sprawl.

[sax184]

This project was proposed about 20 years ago so if it was needed then, its definitely a need now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NCDOT did not propose the beltway because it was needed 20 years ago. It was proposed because the legislature passed legislation to fund urban loops.

[cityboi]

I though it was in the 1960s when leaders in Winston-Salem proposed it. I know that was the case with Greensboro. It took them 30 plus years to begin construction on Greensboro's loop.

[suburban george3]

I hope more development is encouraged by the beltway in other areas of W-S. We currently have 2 main areas for retail in the city, Hanes Mall Blvd and N. University Parkway (Yes folks, I know there are many other retail areas in Winston, but these are the 2 big power blocks)

In many cities similar in size to Winston, there is a much higher level of development. I kinda think developers in this area look as Greensboro being the first conquest with Winston being WAY on the back burner. You have many more national chains that do not view Winston as a viable market. I really think they should look at demographics and the large, differing, regions that Winston and Greensboro pull from.

[cityboi]

Greensboro has retail along I-40 but off the freeway, there are about 5 big retail areas. Battleground Ave corridor, High Point Road corridor, West Market Street Corridor, Wendover Ave. Corridor and Friendly Center area. retail certainly has not ignored Greensboro but Winston-Salem needs more retail.

[DigitalSky]

certainly we'll see more residential development along the beltway and Winston-Salem might be ready for another mall. Greensboro has 2 if you count Friendly Center. Even though its an open-air mall, it has all the same stores you'd find in an enclosed mall like Belk, Hechts, Sears, Foot Locker, The Limited, Lerner New York, ect. A new mall near the future eastern loop in Winston-Salem might be a possibilty. Winston-Salem is approaching 200,000 people. As Dell and its suppliers build east of W-S, that means more residential. When there is more residential, that means more retail, restaurants ect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats true about Friendly Center. It's almost like today they're building hybrid malls, that Friendly was ahead of the curve

[Jerseyman4]

Beltways always promote sprawl, it has been proven allover the east coast! When completed, W/S will see the biggest boom primarly on the northeast side of town. Beltways fuel development primarly because it improves travel in and out around city, connecting the bedroom suburban communities outside the city limits.

[cityboi]

The Northeast will definately see alot of development as it will have closer access to PTI airport with the future toll freeway thats planned to parallel with I-40 north of Kernersville.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Yeah, sprawl is inevitable with beltways, but the opportunity for more progressive development is there too. I hope Winston gets a new urbanism development that offers some high end shopping and residential.

[orulz]

It would be nice to see some city develop a beltline highway with transit in mind (ie BRT in the median.) Here in Raleigh, you'd have the beginnings of a very effective transit system if you had a BRT stop at each major cross street on the beltline. Particularly important ones are Glenwood Ave with Crabtree Valley Mall, Six Forks Rd with North Hills, Atlantic Ave with Highwoods, the 40/440/1/64 interchange has Crossroads. Even lowly Western Blvd has a movie theater, a K-mart, and an 11 story apartment tower.

Unfortunately, as with so many things in NC, the highway comes first and the transit comes... never.

[sax184]

orulz- you are right, this would be a great idea. However, the land use planning would need to support those intersections as nodes as well. We are so far from this. The Triangle is far more progressive in the land use realm than the Triad, and look at who's running for office in the Triangle, and their platform:

http://www.debenedetto.org/message.htm

As a member of the Town Council, I will:

    * Work hard to attract commercial development and businesses that will provide control over the residential tax burden.

    * Monitor and support key artery road improvements that reduce bottle-necks and foster safe travel.

    * Maintain high levels of public safety.

    * Support zoning that decreases residential density.

    * Upgrade the town government to a more representative district structure.

    *  Support funding that allows adequate facility build-out for parks and recreation programs-especially for children.

    * Support growth consistent with required infrastructure and availability.

    *Maintain dialog with neighboring municipalities and take a regional approach to common issues.

    * Assume a fiscally conservative and strategically responsive view towards taxes and budgets.

    *Encourage effective utilization of county and town facilities.

The stuff in bold is in several ways, inherently contradictory. Decreasing residential density almost guarantees to increase bottlenecks and make the utilization of town and county facilities less effective.

We need better politicians than people like this.

[orulz]

Decreasing residential density almost guarantees to increase bottlenecks and make the utilization of town and county facilities less effective.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hm, I'm getting off subject here... but...

There is a place for higher density and a place for lower density. Ever driven on Glenwood away from downtown past the Raleigh Grand and the Target? Look to your right. Look at all the utterly treeless townhomes, apartments, and starter homes sandwiched together like sardines in dense, cul-de-sacrilicious goodness. It's not even served by a single bus route! The nearest TTA stop is a mile walk away, and the closest grocery store is a two mile drive. That's definitely somewhere that lower residential density (or better yet, no density at all) is in order. As built, it's probably four times as dense as any of the established neighborhoods inside the beltline! Packing so many people in an isolated location where driving is the only option for ANYTHING is not a good thing.

[sax184]

There is a place for higher density and a place for lower density. Ever driven on Glenwood away from downtown past the Raleigh Grand and the Target? Look to your right. Look at all the utterly treeless townhomes, apartments, and starter homes sandwiched together like sardines in dense, cul-de-sacrilicious goodness. It's not even served by a single bus route! The nearest TTA stop is a mile walk away, and the closest grocery store is a two mile drive. That's definitely somewhere that lower residential density (or better yet, no density at all) is in order. As built, it's probably four times as dense as any of the established neighborhoods inside the beltline! Packing so many people in an isolated location where driving is the only option for ANYTHING is not a good thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I largely agree with your sentiments. However, I think the situation you describe on Glenwood is due to most homebuilders in Wake County having no sense of urban design whatsoever, and instead they build, well, garbage like that which you describe. If this area had been laid out with a street grid and some decent local retail, even off of Glenwood, you would have a neighborhood of comparatively high quality for the Triangle with a high potential of trip capture by bike and foot within the development itself.

I suspect that the politician above doesn't believe high density belongs anywhere in his jurisdiction, even near rail stations.

[Tre 4]

We need our loop Now.

[Hotlanta]

We need our loop Now.

Not really, but 52 needs some relief immediately! I am glad Winston doesn't have a loop. They just produce Wal-Marts and cookie cutter homes.

[Tre 4]

Sprawl is good, and the new beltway will being it.

http://www.ncdot.org/projects/wsnb/