Virginia Beach Stores, Retail, and Restaurants

[hoobo]

So a place like Mon Ami Gabi wouldn't work in VB? I think based on the proposed description of Zinc, that Mon Ami is the closest chain I can think of. If the price point is $25 for a flatiron steak, then I'd think the price point can work. It's not much more than say Outback. If Zinc went run-of-the-mill instead of pulling off the brasserie concept, then how would it be distinguished from Outback, though?

[burt]

scm, have you checked out this site?

http://www.opentable.com/

It takes a bit of navigating, but is quite interesting from a state-wide/nation-wide perspective.

[scm]

scm, have you checked out this site?

http://www.opentable.com/

Yep, use it all the time when I go to DC to make reservations -- you can see the inventory without spending an hour on the phone calling every place you want to go.

The problem isn't knowing about the places to go, the problem is the places to go. I think it is all wrapped up in many issues here in VB. There is just an enormous resistance to change here, in so many areas. Just look at the comments already today in the VP on the proposed oceanfront master plan.

Hoobo, Zinc isn't proposed -- it has come and gone. After Todd left, and Joe Hoggard (former Ship's Cabin) was the "creative" force, it just went run of the mill -- like you said, Outback with better decor. Actually, it became a bar, with a restaurant attached. Main hang out for the Beach over fifty single crowd -- more fake hair (and fake other body parts) than you have ever seen in one place.

Edited June 3, 2008 by scm

[vdogg]

Just look at the comments already today in the VP on the proposed oceanfront master plan.

Those comments are hardly representative of the area though. Just look at the recent, scientific, survey done of transportation in Hampton roads by CNU. Light rail ranked second in priority and had 61% public support. I would be interested in seeing a similar survey done on retail/resturant needs in the area. You've got to take the pilot comments with a grain of salt.

Voters show regional thinking on transportation, but HRBT, mass transit including light rail, and Third Crossing top list of projects

Asked to rate the importance of eight separate transportation projects, voters appeared to show a sense of regional thinking with all but one project (expanding U.S. Highway 460) rated as “important” by at least a plurality of voters. Five of the eight projects were rated as “important” by at least half of voters.

[RJWGMU]

Then I guess a Golden Corral should do just fine there, huh?

No, what I was trying to get across was that for the price you paid to eat there, the quantity and size wasn't there. I ate at Zinc many times, and was disattisfied each time. I have no problem dropping a good deal of money on a great meal, but it has to be just that. Zinc had decent prices for what you would expect to get out of eating there, but the food just didn't deliver.

[scm]

Those comments are hardly representative of the area though.

Vdogg, a comparison to the receptivity to a traffic calamity is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison. The issue was the oceanfront (and in the broad context of HR, I will choose to include east of Great Neck as "the oceanfront") and the resistance to change in the population in that area -- their receptivity to change.

From the 2005 Oceanfront Resort Area Plan -- much of which was the background for today's announcement:

With a few notable exceptions, there is a significant shortage of quality hotel rooms, quality retail,

quality restaurants

, and quality entertainment opportunities

For a variety of reasons, there appears to be a strong affinity for the status quo among many of the business leaders in the Resort Area.

Those are germane observations -- apples to apples -- resort area to resort area, amenity to amenity. Since we have a ten week tourist season, it is the locals, mostly living east of Great Neck, that will make those "quality restaurants" successful. For some other reason, they haven't opened. I'd love to hear a better rationale.

[vdogg]

Vdogg, a comparison to the receptivity to a traffic calamity is a bit of an apples to oranges comparison.

I know quite well that you can't compare the two directly. I was simply challenging your insistance on using posts on the pilotonline as an indication of general public attitude.

There is just an enormous resistance to change here, in so many areas. Just look at the comments already today in the VP on the proposed oceanfront master plan.

I share your frustrations with the idiots on the pilot, It is something which I have ranted about incessantly. I used to feel as you do about the attitudes of people in this area with regards to change, but my personal experiences with people I meet everyday indicate otherwise. I no longer believe the people that post on the pilot represent the area as a whole. I simply used the traffic survey as an example why.

Also:

For a variety of reasons, there appears to be a strong affinity for the status quo among many of the business leaders in the Resort Area.

Business leaders wanting to maintain the status quo does not necessarily equate into locals wanting to. The quote from the article is simply a polite way of indicating that business leaders at the resort area are cheap. That's why all the hotels are of such poor architectural quality. That's why the beach has to provide incentives (read subsides) to even begin to talk about convention quality hotels, or quality urban development at the oceanfront ala South Beach. The status quo for business leaders at the oceanfront means maximum amount of profit for minimal amount of effort. I'm sure there are many people in the area that wish for more.

Now that i've digressed far enough off-topic, let me return with this. I actually agree with your assesment of the quality of resturants in this area, I just don't necessarily agree with why.

[scm]

I used to feel as you do about the attitudes of people in this area with regards to change, but my personal experiences with people I meet everyday indicate otherwise. I no longer believe the people that post on the pilot represent the area as a whole.

I think you know I am intrigued by the writings of Dr. Richard Florida, the author of several books, including "The Rise of the Creative Class". His latest is "Who's Your City" -- bought it in March, mainly to see where in the country my wife and I might relocate to, if the right opportunity came along. Well, I guess I missed the part in the middle that Jim Bacon is talking about today:

Where does all this leave Virginia? Well, the Old Dominion is situated at the edge of a major culture cluster found mainly in the Southeastern U.S. and the Midwestern states. Most of Virginia is dominated by two personality traits: agreeableness and conscientiousness.

While it's important to have conscientious people on any team, says Florida, conscientiousness as a dominant personality type does not stimulate regional innovation. "Conscientious individuals tend to be rule-followers," he says. Give them a clearly defined task and they will develop the most efficient procedure for completing it. But when the task is not clearly defined and requires creative thought, conscientious individuals may struggle.

Could that conscientiousness thing be a factor?

[erdogs]

I wouldn't put much stock in what people are saying on pilotonline. If you go to the local paper website here in Austin you will see the same types of negative comments on developement. Some people just will never understand how economic developements help them, even if they don't directly benefit. If a city stops growing, it stagnates and dies.

[scm]

here in Austin you will see the same types of negative comments on developement.

Erdogs, as a former Austin landowner, and regular AAS online reader (mostly for Longhorn sports, though!), I would concur. But the opposition is for completely different reasons. There isn't the tree hugger community here that is so dominant, and so anti-developer in Austin. No SOS organization, that will fight at the drop of a hat. I am sure that some of the SOS crowd shares the same antipathy to change that characterizes some in the VP commenting community. They mark the closing of AWHQ as the end of time. But here, the "chain myself to every threatened cedar" crowd just doesn't exist. What we get instead, is "any penny of development is a penny of higher taxes". Both don't see, that just as you have pointed out, you are going forward, or you are going backwards. They just see it for different reasons.

[Sky06]

What we get instead, is "any penny of development is a penny of higher taxes". Both don't see, that just as you have pointed out, you are going forward, or you are going backwards.

Have to agree with you there.

[scm]

If that is true, then it is a large jump from where they are now...

http://www.burtonsgrill.com/locations.html

I was at Hilltop yesterday, and took a look at Burton's Grill new spot. Demo dumpster was full out front, and a front elevation was in the window (looks great) with a note -- "Opening Fall 2008". Promising.

[HarryVB]

Where at hilltop. Hilltop is a large area?... Is it near Blockbuster? North Carolina Company? or Near Borders Books?

[urbanvb]

Hilltop is a not really a large area. It extends north of Laskin and First Colonial from where Borders is to about as far north as the Japanese steakhouse on the left.

[Telmnstr]

Have to agree with you there.

I think the issue people take is when their taxes go to enrich some developer, who is buddies with council.

What is good for the developer and city council, isn't always good for the people. It's quite possible for people's standards of living to go down. These creations don't bring good jobs, and the tax money they generate may just get wasted on more free rides for the developers.

[Sky06]

Surprised no one commented on this from the Pilot:

The Brooks Brothers 346 store in Town Center will become a full retail Brooks Brothers store on Sept. 13, according to the store's selling supervisor, Christina Ivens. . . .

The store is seeing more executives. "Customers are not finding what they expect to find," she said.

They soon will. Look for a greater variety of suits, a better grade of casual wear and an in-house tailor.

Edited June 24, 2008 by Sky06

[vtfan18]

Chipotle is my favorite and the new location near Town Center seems to be doing very well. I've eaten there a number of times already and they are always busy with long lines. I hope this location does well and they open up more locations across the region.

[occasio]

Senor Iguana's on Witchduck & Princess Anne is under new ownership. He's opening this weekend under the name Ultra Lounge. I haven't looked to see what changes he made to the building yet.

[Weaver24]

Lynnhaven Mall will be getting even more new stores by next year. Coach, Forever 21 and White House/Black Market will be coming next year. Burberry and ALDO shoe store may be in the works as well. Lynnhaven is doing very well considering the economy and has stepped the mall up. So far its doing better than MacArthur and it may be the most upscale mall in the area in the future.

[spiker3]

Lynnhaven Mall will be getting even more new stores by next year. Coach, Forever 21 and White House/Black Market will be coming next year. Burberry and ALDO shoe store may be in the works as well. Lynnhaven is doing very well considering the economy and has stepped the mall up. So far its doing better than MacArthur and it may be the most upscale mall in the area in the future.

The fact that White House/Black Market is coming back to the area (?) and not reopening a store in MacArthur Center speaks volumes as well. Their MacArthur location was very successful, but pulled out due to exorbinant rent and costs. While MacArthur may be a upscale mall, sooner or later Taubman may have to adjust their leasing policies to prevent instances like this from continuing.

[scm]

Latest rumor at the Oceanfront is that the sale of the Fishing Pier, including Ocean Eddie's, has fallen through. Purchaser was unable to obtain the needed financing.....

[metalman]

I don't know if anyone knows or cares, but on google searches I came across the info that a Books-a-Million is opening a new store this very weekend in Landstown Commons.

I don't know that company first hand. Are they like a B&N and Borders?

[urbanvb]

I breezed through Books a Million a couple of weeks ago. I thought it was a very nice store and wished I had more time to browse. All in all I think Landstown is nice but could use a few more restaurants imo.

[urbanvb]

Trader Joes is coming to VB.

[metalman]

Finally, we can all breathe a sigh of relief that this mystery is over!!!

Very cool.