Virginia Beach off-topic

[BFG]

Hotel stays are increasing at the strip, and the city plans to step up its marketing.

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/virginia-beach-has-doubled-its-spending-to-lure-more-tourists/article_81f863b3-862d-563d-8a01-f3c64a8b31db.html

Hopefully the proposed developments at the beach, along with the arena, will help bring in even larger numbers.

[baobabs727]

Yes!!

 

New 18,000 seat Arena

New Athletic Fieldhouse

Old Cavalier on the Hill Marriott Autograph Collection and gated residences redevelopment

"New Cavalier" Marriott Hotel plus Embassy Suites Hotel plus Timeshares oceanfront parcel redevelopment

New 15th St. Pier/Hotel/Timeshare cultural entertainment project,

New 19th St. "Dome Site" entertainment, retail, restaurants, theatre, residential project

Rudy Loop's 10+ Oceanfront acres with high-end hotel(s), restaurants, residential, entertainment resort project

A truly impressive $$ list which could very likely be completed by the the early to mid 2020s. 

 

[urbanlife]

The sky was doing something awesome when the Google car drove around Pembroke in 2015.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8452677,-76.131076,3a,75y,185.28h,103.22t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1szyQeFuHRNYKD1AZnJV6jzQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[vdogg]

Just got done watching the informal briefing. Was watching to see the information about City View. Bobby Dyer actually came out and railed against density and urban development. Both him and John Moss complained about density and John Moss in particular brought it all back to light rail. This is what we are up against. The truth is finally out. They care nothing about fiscal responsibility, it's all about keeping Virginia Beach the way it was. They do not like change and they do not like urbanization and Dyer in particular stated that he doesn't think the residents of Virginia Beach want it either. We have got to get those dinosaurs off of council. I take back what I said about Abbott though. She actually asked a really good question and had a valid point about the parking as they're considering it not being enough for the project. She wasn't necessarily against it she just wanted to see the parking situation addressed. She made no mention of wanting to see a surface lot.

This is why I like to watch the briefings myself. The news media tends to leave a lot of stuff out and often gives the wrong impression.

[BFG]

I kinda figured that to be the case when they decided to keep City Hall in its current location. It's frustrating to see the Commonwealth's largest city act this way. 

[Norva757]

Norfolk should use this as a reason to make all new projects urban and dense so it gives people an option for city life.

[carolinaboy]

4 hours ago, vdogg said:

Just got done watching the informal briefing. Was watching to see the information about City View. Bobby Dyer actually came out and railed against density and urban development. Both him and John Moss complained about density and John Moss in particular brought it all back to light rail. This is what we are up against. The truth is finally out. They care nothing about fiscal responsibility, it's all about keeping Virginia Beach the way it was. They do not like change and they do not like urbanization and Dyer in particular stated that he doesn't think the residents of Virginia Beach want it either. We have got to get those dinosaurs off of council. I take back what I said about Abbott though. She actually asked a really good question and had a valid point about the parking as they're considering it not being enough for the project. She wasn't necessarily against it she just wanted to see the parking situation addressed. She made no mention of wanting to see a surface lot.

This is why I like to watch the briefings myself. The news media tends to leave a lot of stuff out and often gives the wrong impression.

Impossible. Dyer couldn't have "railed" against anything. "Railing" isn't allowed in VB.

[baobabs727]

Virginia Beach ranked as the greatest large city in United States of America by WalletHub.

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/virginia-beach-is-the-greatest-city-in-the-country-says/article_f5b7ff6e-c1e1-5b36-a6fd-f87bf420219a.html

 

[BFG]

I cringe anytime I hear Mayor Sessoms say "the greatest city in the world". Sounds like he was on to something lol...

VB and Norfolk have been getting a lotta good publicity lately. 

[vdogg]

Don't get me wrong, I love this city, but these ratings can be a bit dubious at times. We're making great progress, but we've got a looong way to go before we're the greatest large city in America. 

[baobabs727]

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-large-cities-to-live-in/14358/#methodology

Yes. Haha! I get that. But hey, I'll take it. For at least by their measurements, we are #1. And pretty significant measurements are they...if you read the categories. 

Besides, we need a little swagger around here. Our collective shoulders are absolutely aching from the giant chip perennially  planted thereupon!  

Somehow I have a feeling that our development wonk brethren in Raleigh, Charlotte, Nawlins, Atlanta or Seattle would accept this little bit of recognition and then spike the football. 

I wanna..., no,...I needsta spike the football, too! Dammit!  LOL

Edited July 25, 2017 by baobabs727

[HRVT]

4 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-large-cities-to-live-in/14358/#methodology

Yes. Haha! I get that. But hey, I'll take it. For at least by their measurements, we are #1. And pretty significant measurements are they...if you read the categories. 

Besides, we need a little swagger around here. Our collective shoulders are absolutely aching from the giant chip perennially  planted thereupon!  

Somehow I have a feeling that our development wonk brethren in Raleigh, Charlotte, Nawlins, Atlanta or Seattle would accept this little bit of recognition and then spike the football. 

I wanna..., no,...I needsta spike the football, too! Dammit!  LOL

Hmmm, Virginia Beach at #3 in affordability? Not sure I'm buying what they're selling there. Taxes are low and home ownership rates are high. But cost of living isn't exactly cheap in VB. I'd like to see the numbers that they're using to make their rankings. Everything else looks about right though.

[baobabs727]

1 hour ago, HRVT said:

Hmmm, Virginia Beach at #3 in affordability? Not sure I'm buying what they're selling there. Taxes are low and home ownership rates are high. But cost of living isn't exactly cheap in VB. I'd like to see the numbers that they're using to make their rankings. Everything else looks about right though.

Yeah, I'm not sure how they obtained the raw numbers or what those are, but here's the methodology.  There are a multitude of factors weighted in here.

Affordability – Total Points: 20

• Housing Costs: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
  Note: This composite metric comprises the following calculations: Median Home Price / Median Annual Household Income and Median Rent Price / Median Annual Household Income
• Median Annual Property Taxes: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
  Note: This metric was calculated as follows: Median Real Estate Tax / Median House Price
• Cost of Living: Triple Weight (~8.57 Points)
• Median Annual Household Income: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
• Homeownership Rate: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)

Edited July 25, 2017 by baobabs727

[HRVT]

7 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure how they obtained the raw numbers or what those are, but here's the methodology.  There are a multitude of factors weighted in here.

Affordability – Total Points: 20

• Housing Costs: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
  Note: This composite metric comprises the following calculations: Median Home Price / Median Annual Household Income and Median Rent Price / Median Annual Household Income
• Median Annual Property Taxes: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
  Note: This metric was calculated as follows: Median Real Estate Tax / Median House Price
• Cost of Living: Triple Weight (~8.57 Points)
• Median Annual Household Income: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)
• Homeownership Rate: Full Weight (~2.86 Points)

Yeah, I had seen the methodology, but like you said, I really want to see what raw numbers they're using. I certainly see where VB would be favorable in some of these. I'm not sure what their methodology for determining cost of living is however and given that COL accounts for 3/8 of the Affordability score, I would assume that they would have to score VB at least somewhat favorably to come in 3rd in the Affordability measure as a whole. I can't imagine housing costs helped much (I would guess VB would be somewhere around the middle of the pack in the list).

Virginia Beach is certainly a good place to live. However, ironically I left in large part BECAUSE it is a difficult place to afford to live (among other reasons). Granted, where I live now (Greensboro area) is not rated on the list at all.

 

And on an unrelated note to the original post....

On 7/20/2017 at 11:01 AM, vdogg said:

This is what we are up against. The truth is finally out. They care nothing about fiscal responsibility, it's all about keeping Virginia Beach the way it was.

Bingo! If they cared about fiscal responsibility, they would be IN FAVOR of developments such as light rail. They would be IN FAVOR of measures that increase density in certain parts of the city. Suburbia is not sustainable over the very long haul.

Edited July 26, 2017 by HRVT

[Virginia City]

For a city this size having really nothing going on is deafening. This forum is really good at updating info and quality info at that but the fact that weeks can go by with no commenting is sad. The Virginia Beach that we know from about 10 years ago is dead and has been replaced once again by the suburb that the head-in-the-sand city council wants. I've given up on this city being anything other than a really large suburb for an alpha city that is too small to ever be considered "major". 

[BFG]

VB has a bit of an identity crisis. They (or at least Mayor Sessoms) wants to be considered as a city on the move, a power player, but like you said, they keep their heads in the sand and drag their feet. The Dome site has been vacant for almost 25 years, with some grand promises, but it remains a parking lot. The arena is not dead, but nobody knows any concrete info other than they need an extension every three months. Town Center wants to be a downtown, but they won't even move City Hall there. Don't even get me started on light rail or that Maglev idea they're considering. As much as Mayors Sessoms and Oberndorf did to move VB forward, people like John "Millennials need to go to Norfolk" Atkinson did a lot to push them back 40 years. They're in the minority, yet they have the loudest voices.

Those aren't deals you keep delaying. Either make something happen or don't. If you don't wanna be a big city, fine, but step out the way and let Norfolk make progress happen. Stop trying to one-up each other (Norfolk is guilty too, I admit) and work together. Let Norfolk be "the city", let VB be the resort suburb. I promise the two of you can work together, the same way Raleigh-Durham and Minneapolis-St. Paul do.

My only question is, can VB put its pride aside, knowing it's the larger city by population and land?

Edited September 3, 2017 by BFG

[urbanlife]

5 hours ago, Virginia City said:

For a city this size having really nothing going on is deafening. This forum is really good at updating info and quality info at that but the fact that weeks can go by with no commenting is sad. The Virginia Beach that we know from about 10 years ago is dead and has been replaced once again by the suburb that the head-in-the-sand city council wants. I've given up on this city being anything other than a really large suburb for an alpha city that is too small to ever be considered "major". 

I know how you feel, it is night and day compared to where I live now to Virginia Beach, and even Norfolk to some degree. Here in Portland, we have so many new buildings going up in every neighborhood. We have some areas that are basically building brand new neighborhoods that look foreign to me because they didn't exist a few years ago. With the size of that metro and that VB and Norfolk should be the top cities of that region, it seems to be really missing out on this urban revitalization that is happening in full swing in other cities in the US.

I hope the area figures itself out and progresses to a more urban environment, but seeing that not much has changed there since I left in 2001 besides some road alignments, a few new high schools, and a handful of new buildings, I am not holding my breath with any major changes happening any time soon.

[BFG]

I think you're seeing apartment buildings pop up, but in pockets. Buddy Gadams is building up downtown, although a lot of it is older renovations. Hopefully SPQ gets started soon. 

As for VB, it's so developed with suburbs, I think the only urban development you'll see is at Town Center and down near the oceanfront. 

[baobabs727]

8 hours ago, Virginia City said:

For a city this size having really nothing going on is deafening. This forum is really good at updating info and quality info at that but the fact that weeks can go by with no commenting is sad. The Virginia Beach that we know from about 10 years ago is dead and has been replaced once again by the suburb that the head-in-the-sand city council wants. I've given up on this city being anything other than a really large suburb for an alpha city that is too small to ever be considered "major". 

Ouch. From the standpoint of the silence on this board, it is reflective of a lack of news.  But there are some other factors at play, including fewer active posters here than 10 years ago, and a general bias toward Norfolk. And of course the latter makes sense given this place is called *urban*planet.

But I disagree with you that there is "nothing going on."  I also disagree that things are slower than they were 10 years ago. After all, Town Center has continued to grow and flourish, the resort strip has been transformed with new hotels and timeshares. Lynnhaven Mall has been re-made into something vibrant and attractive. Same with Pembroke Mall. The Southern part of the city is expanding in residential and with the biotech corridor. Additionally, we will be the epicenter for the landing of potentially 4 new international fiber cables coming from all parts of the globe. Mega players like Google, Microsoft and Facebook are involved. Data centers are proposed for Corporate Landing into the Billions of $$. 

AND....the following projects are  in various stages of being. From proposal to near completion:

New 18,000 seat Arena

New Athletic Fieldhouse

Old Cavalier on the Hill brought back to life as a boutique Marriott Autograph Collection Hotel and gated residences redevelopment

"New Cavalier" Marriott Hotel Oceanfront across the street, plus an Embassy Suites Hotel , condos and timeshares

Block 9 Town Center with a new theater, restaurants, retail + a 10 story upscale apartment building 

Expansion of Town Center to the East at Columbus Shopping with new residential, movies, shopping.

New 15th St. Pier/Hotel/Timeshare cultural & entertainment project

New 19th St. "Dome Site" entertainment, retail, restaurants, theatre, residential project

Rudy Loop's 10+ Oceanfront acres with high-end hotel(s), restaurants, residential, entertainment resort project

A truly impressive list--by any measure--most of which could very likely be completed by the the mid 2020s.  Far from "nothing going on," IMHO &  with all due respect.

Now, light rail was killed. Yes. And I agree, that was a bad move. But other than that, modernity just keeps on marching forward in Virginia Beach. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by baobabs727

[HRVA]

What's the status of the Town Center expansion anyways?  The relocation of City Hall seemed critical and it without the land swap the order of development is altered. 

[baobabs727]

5 hours ago, Brennen said:

What's the status of the Town Center expansion anyways?  The relocation of City Hall seemed critical and it without the land swap the order of development is altered. 

It was all about the $$ garage that the city employees were going to use.  I don't know for sure, but I think they'll go-ahead and relocate BB&B to the old Circuit City lot and start there. They've indicated that not moving City Hall to TC will not deter them from developing the parcels that they now own outright East of TC.  I assume they're waiting 'til block 9 is complete. Who knows, but maybe the "gateway tower" (they'll have to find another name) will come next?  Depends on demand for Class A... from a multitude or from one big player. I still say that it would be interesting if Sentara were to consolidate their non-provider folks (of which there are thousands)  into one skyscraper. Currently, they are spread out in offfice complexes all over every city around here. 

Edited September 4, 2017 by baobabs727

[urbanlife]

On 9/3/2017 at 6:41 PM, baobabs727 said:

Ouch. From the standpoint of the silence on this board, it is reflective of a lack of news.  But there are some other factors at play, including fewer active posters here than 10 years ago, and a general bias toward Norfolk. And of course the latter makes sense given this place is called *urban*planet.

But I disagree with you that there is "nothing going on."  I also disagree that things are slower than they were 10 years ago. After all, Town Center has continued to grow and flourish, the resort strip has been transformed with new hotels and timeshares. Lynnhaven Mall has been re-made into something vibrant and attractive. Same with Pembroke Mall. The Southern part of the city is expanding in residential and with the biotech corridor. Additionally, we will be the epicenter for the landing of potentially 4 new international fiber cables coming from all parts of the globe. Mega players like Google, Microsoft and Facebook are involved. Data centers are proposed for Corporate Landing into the Billions of $$. 

AND....the following projects are  in various stages of being. From proposal to near completion:

New 18,000 seat Arena

New Athletic Fieldhouse

Old Cavalier on the Hill brought back to life as a boutique Marriott Autograph Collection Hotel and gated residences redevelopment

"New Cavalier" Marriott Hotel Oceanfront across the street, plus an Embassy Suites Hotel , condos and timeshares

Block 9 Town Center with a new theater, restaurants, retail + a 10 story upscale apartment building 

Expansion of Town Center to the East at Columbus Shopping with new residential, movies, shopping.

New 15th St. Pier/Hotel/Timeshare cultural & entertainment project

New 19th St. "Dome Site" entertainment, retail, restaurants, theatre, residential project

Rudy Loop's 10+ Oceanfront acres with high-end hotel(s), restaurants, residential, entertainment resort project

A truly impressive list--by any measure--most of which could very likely be completed by the the mid 2020s.  Far from "nothing going on," IMHO &  with all due respect.

Now, light rail was killed. Yes. And I agree, that was a bad move. But other than that, modernity just keeps on marching forward in Virginia Beach. 

How many of these things will actually happen? In my life there has been numerous proposals that have never turned into anything. I am happy that they at least built a downtown, even if it is a small area surrounded by suburbia.

[baobabs727]

40 minutes ago, urbanlife said:

How many of these things will actually happen? In my life there has been numerous proposals that have never turned into anything. I am happy that they at least built a downtown, even if it is a small area surrounded by suburbia.

Aren't most downtowns surrounded by suburbia? You have downtown, then you have suburbia and the exurbs...and then you have rural America.  However you label it, Norfolk and Virginia Beach are fairly densely populated beyond their respective downtowns. 

As far as "what will ever get done?" Well I don't have a crystal ball, but I can tell you that everything in my original second paragraph (you quoted) has been completed or is getting done.

Additionally, we know that Bruce Thompson's Cavalier projects 1 & 2 will get done.  I don't know the exact total, but I think we're talking easily north of $350-400 million in total. The Old Cavalier is almost finished. The gated community surrounding the Old Cavalier is beyond 60% completed. Nearly sold out. He nearly always succeeds, so the big project #2 on the oceanfront will get done. He did just finish the $170M Hilton Norfolk The Main & Conference Ctr. to universal acclaim.

The arena is one extension away from getting started. There's a very good chance that it will actually happen because of the funding mechanism (private $$).  

Block 9 at Town Center is half finished. It will get done.  Armada Hoffler now owns all of the property adjacent and east of Town Center, and so eventually that will get done. They didn't buy those parcels to operate a strip mall. Believe me.

As for the 15th St., Dome and Rudee Loop projects, those are, indeed, up in the air. That is where we would need the crystal ball. The largest among them would be Rudee.  Bruce Thompson is involved in the 15th St. project, but nothing has been approved as of yet. The Dome site project is moving forward conceptually, once again, with RFP's supposedly coming in to the City Mgr. right now. Per Council request. And Council will choose a developer this Fall/Winter and move forward with the planning stages. 

Hope that helps to allay your concerns.

Edited September 6, 2017 by baobabs727

[urbanlife]

7 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

Aren't most downtowns surrounded by suburbia? You have downtown, then you have suburbia and the exurbs...and then you have rural America.  However you label it, Norfolk and Virginia Beach are fairly densely populated beyond their respective downtowns. 

As far as "what will ever get done?" Well I don't have a crystal ball, but I can tell you that everything in my original second paragraph (you quoted) has been completed or is getting done.

Additionally, we know that Bruce Thompson's Cavalier projects 1 & 2 will get done.  I don't know the exact total, but I think we're talking easily north of $350-400 million in total. The Old Cavalier is almost finished. The gated community surrounding the Old Cavalier is beyond 60% completed. Nearly sold out. He nearly always succeeds, so the big project #2 on the oceanfront will get done. He did just finish the $170M Hilton Norfolk The Main & Conference Ctr. to universal acclaim.

The arena is one extension away from getting started. There's a very good chance that it will actually happen because of the funding mechanism (private $$).  

Block 9 at Town Center is half finished. It will get done.  Armada Hoffler now owns all of the property adjacent and east of Town Center, and so eventually that will get done. They didn't buy those parcels to operate a strip mall. Believe me.

As for the 15th St., Dome and Rudee Loop projects, those are, indeed, up in the air. That is where we would need the crystal ball. The largest among them would be Rudee.  Bruce Thompson is involved in the 15th St. project, but nothing has been approved as of yet. The Dome site project is moving forward conceptually, once again, with RFP's supposedly coming in to the City Mgr. right now. Per Council request. And Council will choose a developer this Fall/Winter and move forward with the planning stages. 

Hope that helps to allay your concerns.

Fair point, though in the US, thanks to urban renewal, most downtowns are surrounded by parking lots, freeways, and then suburbia. I was more referring to the small footprint of VB's young downtown. Which I do understand that it is still a young downtown, I just don't see it expanding too much further than its current footprint when you look at those that own property around it. (I am looking at you Pembroke Mall and old HQ site.) I am not discrediting the second paragraph, that is all amazing the all that has been done. I was referring more to the list below that paragraph because many things on that list I have heard in various forms over the past 30 years. So I have earned my skepticism. 

The Cavalier renovation and expansion on their proper is a no brainer, I am happy that is being done, but I am not surprised. Also I am happy the Hilton in downtown Norfolk finally happened, Norfolk deserved that building, from what I have seen of it, it looks fantastic.

The arena may be one extension away from getting started, but that one I will believe it when I see the construction. I have heard about this arena in various forms, just like I have heard about a pro team. Neither of which I am holding my breath for because I would be dead if I did. I hope an arena does get built, but you can understand why I might be skeptical.

I am happy about Block 9 as well, overall the Town Center is turning out more dense than I ever imagined it would get. It is also good to start seeing a variety of architecture happening. I was originally worried that one architecture firm would get to design the whole area.

The Dome site, I wish they would have left the Dome in place. That way it would have still been a quirky place to see concerts at the beach. I hope that whole area gets redeveloped one day, but I doubt it will look anything like what I expect it to look like.

I am happy you guys have been going strong with keeping this site updated with all that is going on. At this point, you guys are my only connection left to Hampton Roads besides a couple of friends that I still keep in touch with.

[Virginia City]

Town Centers footprint is only limited by the neighborhoods and high school that surrounds it. Personally I would like to see the BB&T and the Smokey Bones across the street moved into the tower that will go onto Block 2 or the Taco Bell lot and then a developer buy the land for another tower in the former BB&T spot to move Downtown across the street as well.