Virginia Beach off-topic

[BFG]

I think the problem is, HR gets these deals once in a blue moon, while other metros our size do this on a regular basis. An ADP-type deal needs to happen at least twice a year.

There was an article about how other regions have gained back the jobs they lost during the recession. HR has yet to get anywhere close to that.

Something's gotta give when it comes to the brain drain. It won't be Amazon, but something's got to give. Hopefully the tech and fiberoptic corridor is the start of something big, and has a ripple effect elsewhere.

[carolinaboy]

A possible plus for the region is that Amazon just built the largest (I think) wind turbine farm on the east coast just outside of Elizabeth City, NC. This wind farm powers an Amazon server farm somewhere out west I think. Maybe they would like their east coast HQ to be near and powered by their wind farm too.

[HRVT]

16 hours ago, BFG said:

I think the problem is, HR gets these deals once in a blue moon, while other metros our size do this on a regular basis. An ADP-type deal needs to happen at least twice a year.

There was an article about how other regions have gained back the jobs they lost during the recession. HR has yet to get anywhere close to that.

Something's gotta give when it comes to the brain drain. It won't be Amazon, but something's got to give. Hopefully the tech and fiberoptic corridor is the start of something big, and has a ripple effect elsewhere.

I don't know about twice a year,  but maybe more like once every year or two and definitely more than once a decade or so. But it is kind of disappointing to look at the news, see big news about an exciting new job development and then find out it's some company adding a couple dozen decently paid employees. Hampton Roads is definitely due for some kind of announcement of at least a few hundred jobs. I think it has been about two years since ADP at this point.

[Norfolk757Kid]

The expansion of Ferguson Enterprises, which is a plumbing wholesaler I believe but still a relatively huge company, got less attention than ADP but is still a big deal for the region. Probably because its in Newport News and not the Southside, but the expansion calls to retain 1000 jobs and create about 500 more.  

[Urbanlooker]

Hints of regionalism at least on Alexander/Norfolk's part. Maybe there can be a campus setting in VB with a tower or 2 in Downtown? 

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/why-should-amazon-look-at-virginia-beach-because-of-high/article_bd7163eb-45f1-5700-a784-a2191c9581a7.html

Edited September 20, 2017 by Urbanlooker

[BFG]

24 minutes ago, Urbanlooker said:

Hints of regionalism at least on Alexander/Norfolk's part. Maybe there can be a campus setting in VB with a tower or 2 in Downtown? 

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/why-should-amazon-look-at-virginia-beach-because-of-high/article_bd7163eb-45f1-5700-a784-a2191c9581a7.html

Honestly, Sessoms, Alexander, and at least one other mayor (esp. if it's one from the Peninsula) need to work together on this and future efforts to lure big businesses. Mayor Alexander said something I thought of when this first came out: no matter where the HQ would go, the regional economy still benefits. Even though we don't have as many features as a Boston, Portland or Denver, if Amazon saw the region working together, it could turn some heads. Furthermore, I think 50,000 jobs easily gets us to 2 million people by 2020, when you think of how many people would bring families here.

I really do hope this officially gets the ball rolling on a regionalism plan. There's been speculation for more than 30 years, but never a true effort. Any kind of major endeavor, whether it's this, a pro team, or public transportation needs to be a regional effort, not just one city.

[vdogg]

9 hours ago, Urbanlooker said:

Hints of regionalism at least on Alexander/Norfolk's part. Maybe there can be a campus setting in VB with a tower or 2 in Downtown? 

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/why-should-amazon-look-at-virginia-beach-because-of-high/article_bd7163eb-45f1-5700-a784-a2191c9581a7.html

Not happening, Va. Beach doesn't want transit. There is simply no way around this. The light rail system in Norfolk will not be enough to satisfy Amazon's needs, we need a regional network. We had a chance at that and lost it. This is a fools errand, and I honestly believe that money is better spent elsewhere. Maybe in 20 years when the younger generation grows up and starts voting in appreciable numbers we'll have another shot at this.

[baobabs727]

Mayor Alexander is an exceptionally poor facsimile of the real thing that we had in Mayor Paul Fraim.  I have not been impressed by any of the former's comments. Oh, and by the way, it's awfully easy for one to sound cooperative (regionally) when one has no land to offer, and no money to spend. 

 So we blew our chance to land Amazon because Virginia Beach rejected light rail?? Ridiculous. Even if we had extended the LR line from Newtown Road to the middle of the Atlantic Ocean, that would not have constituted a system of adequate  breadth, depth, complexity and ridership capacity to satisfy even 1/1000th of Besos' appetite for mass transit.  We are too small to even use the word "mass" in anything.

Edited September 20, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

I think it's a little early to compare Kenny Alexander to Paul Fraim, when the latter had 24 years experience. Anyone who replaced him was going to have an uphill battle. 

But what is he supposed to say? He admits Norfolk doesn't have the land but offers other benefits. I'm glad he didn't try to play "me too" the way Norfolk and VB always do. 

[baobabs727]

The first impression he gave was that he wasn't willing to spend City monies to lure the biggest whale in the history of mankind.  And let's be real, the State would ultimately pay the lion's share of any incentive package.  Any amount that Norfolk would reasonably be required to pay would pale in comparison to the  economic benefits.

The second impression he has now given us is that he doesn't know whether or not Norfolk will join in with anyone, doesn't know if they'll contribute to the region's cost-sharing for the State's consultant,  and doesn't think he has the land to offer up to Amazon.  

Wow, so positive, so inspirational, so forward-looking, so proactive, so aggressive!    

Some of you may joke Mayor Sessoms for his braggadocio re: Virginia Beach, but I'll take that kind of hubris, pride and cheerleading any day in a mayor over this bloodless technocrat-speak coming from Kenny. I'll tell you which mayor I would want fighting for me.  Pretty darned easy to pick. 

And you talk handicapping his experience? Kenny should be ready--day one. We were promised an experienced businessman as Mayor,  yet he has turned out to be nothing but another calculating politician.

Calling-out Cordish and publicly shaming them in the media over a   heretofore-unnoticed (at the time) representation of an actual statue in downtown located in the "F" of "Norfolk"  as beautifully emblazoned on the side of a new $40 million corporate investment?!  Are you kidding me? Doesn't he have better things to attend to? 

And you say he doesn't play games like the Mayors of yore? Oh, really? Last I checked, he played  "me too" with SCOPE.  He also played it with the Main St. monument ordeal.  

Grandstanding. Bandwagon politics. False narratives.  Misplaced priorities.  Feckless leadership.  

That's about how I would sum up his tenure thusfar.  Surely we can do better.

[urbanlife]

10 hours ago, vdogg said:

Not happening, Va. Beach doesn't want transit. There is simply no way around this. The light rail system in Norfolk will not be enough to satisfy Amazon's needs, we need a regional network. We had a chance at that and lost it. This is a fools errand, and I honestly believe that money is better spent elsewhere. Maybe in 20 years when the younger generation grows up and starts voting in appreciable numbers we'll have another shot at this.

Obviously there is a lot against VB and Norfolk for Amazon to pick either city, but it is smart for Norfolk at least to strive to meet those goals because these goals will make them more attractive to people and companies looking to relocate in the future. VB on the other hand, who knows when this whole anti transit mentality will go away. It seemed strong back in the 80s and 90s, and I am sure it is just as strong today.

[BFG]

6 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

The first impression he gave was that he wasn't willing to spend City monies to lure the biggest whale in the history of mankind.  And let's be real, the State would ultimately pay the lion's share of any incentive package.  Any amount that Norfolk would reasonably be required to pay would pale in comparison to the  economic benefits.

The second impression he has now given us is that he doesn't know whether or not Norfolk will join in with anyone, doesn't know if they'll contribute to the region's cost-sharing for the State's consultant,  and doesn't think he has the land to offer up to Amazon.  

Wow, so positive, so inspirational, so forward-looking, so proactive, so aggressive!    

Some of you may joke Mayor Sessoms for his braggadocio re: Virginia Beach, but I'll take that kind of hubris, pride and cheerleading any day in a mayor over this bloodless technocrat-speak coming from Kenny. I'll tell you which mayor I would want fighting for me.  Pretty darned easy to pick. 

And you talk handicapping his experience? Kenny should be ready--day one. We were promised an experienced businessman as Mayor,  yet he has turned out to be nothing but another calculating politician.

Calling-out Cordish and publicly shaming them in the media over a   heretofore-unnoticed (at the time) representation of an actual statue in downtown located in the "F" of "Norfolk"  as beautifully emblazoned on the side of a new $40 million corporate investment?!  Are you kidding me? Doesn't he have better things to attend to? 

And you say he doesn't play games like the Mayors of yore? Oh, really? Last I checked, he played  "me too" with SCOPE.  He also played it with the Main St. monument ordeal.  

Grandstanding. Bandwagon politics. False narratives.  Misplaced priorities.  Feckless leadership.  

That's about how I would sum up his tenure thusfar.  Surely we can do better.

Whoa. Sorry if I struck a nerve, but we clearly agree to disagree. I stand by my statement that I'm not comparing a man who's been there a year to a man who served nearly a quarter of a century. I'm not handicapping him, I just think it's really, really early. I was only a kid then, so don't know how Norfolk was in Fraim's first year, but I'm sure it didn't grow overnight. Again, we agree to disagree there. I have nothing against either mayor, for what it's worth, and I do wish they'd come together more, regardless of who's putting up what.

Also, I didn't say Kenny hasn't played games. I remember the controversy with Scope, but I said "I'm glad he didn't try to play 'me too' the way Norfolk and VB always do", which means I'm aware he's just as guilty as VB. My interpretation of his quote is that he wants to work together, but also wants more details. It is what it is there. Either way, I think the region will be just fine regardless of whether Amazon comes here.

We won't see eye to eye on this one, and that's perfectly fine with me.

Edited September 20, 2017 by BFG

[baobabs727]

Agreed. Cheers, mate. 

[baobabs727]

Lynnhaven Fishing Pier, the land on which the Pier Cafe and The Lynnhaven Fish House sit, SOLD to Westminster Canterbury retirement community for expansion purposes.

WC's response to Harbor's Edge.

A very sad day for those of us who have loved these two restaurants. 

https://pilotonline.com/business/real-estate/lynnhaven-fishing-pier-being-sold-to-retirement-community/article_ee69a8ec-117b-5f01-ae2a-48544bcf3b63.html

[urbanlife]

What's the news on the Town Center North, the office park that is suppose to be redeveloped?

[Virginia City]

There is so much wasted space in the Town Center area it's ridiculous. 

[HRVA]

Can we talk about the market for this forum's vision?  Is there anything indicating demand for a bunch of 40+ story buildings? Could it be that they can't get financing?  Or are they gun shy about public backlash over denser proposals?  I am just trying to understand the basis for the expectations of everyone on here. 

[baobabs727]

Market demand will always dictate. Speculative building is difficult to get financed,  especially in a smaller market like ours. Lenders consider us a secondary or even a tertiary market. Not good.  Just look at the problem with the Clark Nexsen building. In every conference call I have listened to since its construction  (especially before the reshuffling and before Divaris took up some of the vacant space there), the market sector analysts poke and prod the Armada Hoffler execs  on why they built the extra two floors, and re: why the absorption rate hasn't been what was predicted. They want to know if there has been "another newer area in the region that has eclipsed the Town Center as far as desirability for new office." I always have to laugh at that! They don't know any better though.  

And then you look at downtown Norfolk--nothing. Vacancy is still too high. We are close, but not quite there yet. That's why it sort of surprises me that this new building for Town Center is 500,000 ft.². I would suppose that they are hoping to land a major whale to take up a lot of space...or they already have one lined up.  Same with the former Gateway Tower.  If their site has been updated, it looks like they may already have quite a bit of that space spoken for.  So all of this is pure speculation at this point. I'm having a hard time buying that there's enough demand out there to fill both of those towers...or even one of them...anytime in the very near future.  Not without some people coming from outside of the region, that is.  We shall wait and see. 

[BFG]

I don't even know if the city knows what vision it has. They go back and forth between wanting to be a city of the future, but they keep approving suburban developments, like the Wegman's and Walmart on the other side of Independence. If it's not that, it's letting the small-town-minded folks keep them stuck in 1970. IMO, they should've built towers on those lots, with apartments and stores on the ground level. Deciding to keep City Hall in its current location and the light rail debacle is another reason I'm not so sure VB knows what it wants to be. Honestly, I think it's an oversized suburb with a rural mindset...I'm sorry if that's harsh, but I want this area to thrive, and I think VB and Norfolk hold themselves back at times.

Personally, I think the city should embrace its suburban and resort city status, and work closer with Norfolk, letting that be the urban core of Hampton Roads. Both cities could stay in their lane and complement each other. I'm a huge proponent of a merger between those two cities, along with Chesapeake, but I also know I have a better chance of dating a cover model before that happens lol...

Until we can get 2 of the 3 aforementioned cities to work together or merge, I don't see Town Center changing much of the status quo.

[HRVA]

21 minutes ago, BFG said:

I don't even know if the city knows what vision it has. They go back and forth between wanting to be a city of the future, but they keep approving suburban developments, like the Wegman's and Walmart on the other side of Independence. If it's not that, it's letting the small-town-minded folks keep them stuck in 1970. IMO, they should've built towers on those lots, with apartments and stores on the ground level. Deciding to keep City Hall in its current location and the light rail debacle is another reason I'm not so sure VB knows what it wants to be. Honestly, I think it's an oversized suburb with a rural mindset...I'm sorry if that's harsh, but I want this area to thrive, and I think VB and Norfolk hold themselves back at times.

Personally, I think the city should embrace its suburban and resort city status, and work closer with Norfolk, letting that be the urban core of Hampton Roads. Both cities could stay in their lane and complement each other. I'm a huge proponent of a merger between those two cities, along with Chesapeake, but I also know I have a better chance of dating a cover model before that happens lol...

Until we can get 2 of the 3 aforementioned cities to work together or merge, I don't see Town Center changing much of the status quo.

This touches on a lot of what I'm trying to talk about. The city (correct me if I'm wrong) had zero say so in the Walmart or Wegmans other than fine details with development and building codes.   Land owners are free to do as they please so long as they stay within zoning.

The city hall issue ultimately came down to who showed up.  There's not the same level of passion with people on our side of the issue and the opposition is incredibly passionate.  

The biggest mistake this region ever made was incorporating Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, and Suffolk. Norfolk should have been allowed to continue annexing. It divided this region and has held it back. It's irreversible now though. I don't ever see a merger happening and talks of regionalism disappear once property tax dollars are at stake. 

[Virginia City]

35 minutes ago, BFG said:

I don't even know if the city knows what vision it has. They go back and forth between wanting to be a city of the future, but they keep approving suburban developments, like the Wegman's and Walmart on the other side of Independence. If it's not that, it's letting the small-town-minded folks keep them stuck in 1970. IMO, they should've built towers on those lots, with apartments and stores on the ground level. Deciding to keep City Hall in its current location and the light rail debacle is another reason I'm not so sure VB knows what it wants to be. Honestly, I think it's an oversized suburb with a rural mindset...I'm sorry if that's harsh, but I want this area to thrive, and I think VB and Norfolk hold themselves back at times.

Personally, I think the city should embrace its suburban and resort city status, and work closer with Norfolk, letting that be the urban core of Hampton Roads. Both cities could stay in their lane and complement each other. I'm a huge proponent of a merger between those two cities, along with Chesapeake, but I also know I have a better chance of dating a cover model before that happens lol...

Until we can get 2 of the 3 aforementioned cities to work together or merge, I don't see Town Center changing much of the status quo.

I agree with everything in this post 100%.

[vdogg]

39 minutes ago, baobabs727 said:

Market demand will always dictate. Speculative building is difficult to get financed,  especially in a smaller market like ours. Lenders consider us a secondary or even a tertiary market. Not good.  Just look at the problem with the Clark Nexsen building. In every conference call I have listened to since its construction  (especially before the reshuffling and before Divaris took up some of the vacant space there), the market sector analysts poke and prod the Armada Hoffler execs  on why they built the extra two floors, and re: why the absorption rate hasn't been what was predicted. They want to know if there has been "another newer area in the region that has eclipsed the Town Center as far as desirability for new office." I always have to laugh at that! They don't know any better though.  

And then you look at downtown Norfolk--nothing. Vacancy is still too high. We are close, but not quite there yet. That's why it sort of surprises me that this new building for Town Center is 500,000 ft.². I would suppose that they are hoping to land a major whale to take up a lot of space...or they already have one lined up.  Same with the former Gateway Tower.  If their site has been updated, it looks like they may already have quite a bit of that space spoken for.  So all of this is pure speculation at this point. I'm having a hard time buying that there's enough demand out there to fill both of those towers...or even one of them...anytime in the very near future.  Not without some people coming from outside of the region, that is.  We shall wait and see. 

That 500,000 is total space, not just office. They are specifically marketing 100,000 sq ft of retail. You could reasonably expect hotel/ apartments to claim additional 300,000; which leaves 100,000 for office, which is average for that area.

[baobabs727]

OK, that makes more sense! 

[BFG]

4 hours ago, 23320 said:

The biggest mistake this region ever made was incorporating Virginia Beach, Chesapeake, and Suffolk. Norfolk should have been allowed to continue annexing. It divided this region and has held it back. It's irreversible now though. I don't ever see a merger happening and talks of regionalism disappear once property tax dollars are at stake. 

I agree 100%, esp. on the property tax rates. Norfolk's schools and crime issues (the latter of which I think is overblown at times) also hurt the possibility. But, more importantly, VB residents won't stand for raising property taxes by a penny, let alone to the level of Norfolk's.

IIRC, VB's tax is $0.99 per every $100 financed. Norfolk's is about 15 cents higher. If they could somehow get Norfolk's down to VB's level, there might be a shot. Until then, no way.

[HRVA]

3 hours ago, BFG said:

I agree 100%, esp. on the property tax rates. Norfolk's schools and crime issues (the latter of which I think is overblown at times) also hurt the possibility. But, more importantly, VB residents won't stand for raising property taxes by a penny, let alone to the level of Norfolk's.

IIRC, VB's tax is $0.99 per every $100 financed. Norfolk's is about 15 cents higher. If they could somehow get Norfolk's down to VB's level, there might be a shot. Until then, no way.

My mention of property taxes was specifically aimed at the outlet mall and the lack of cooperation on VB's side.

VB's tax rate went up slightly to $1.0025 per $100 assessed with premiums if you're in a special service district.  But ultimately the average property owner is going to pay more in property taxes in VB then say Chesapeake for a similar property because property values are higher in VB.   I do wish it was per $100 financed though - that would save a lot of people a TON of money.