Virginia Beach off-topic

[Virginia City]

This would not be the case if we didn't have every city as an independent city. This state would look completely different without that law or whatever it is. It stopped natural city growth and forced cities to create hard boundaries. Unfortunately, there is no way to get rid of it and the damage has already been done.

[baobabs727]

eandslee--Gosh, you Richmonders are just like people from Charlotte & Nashville.  Rah Rah, gung ho and territorially defensive. I kid. Sort of. LOL

Look, I wasn't trying to pick a fight with Richmond.  Wasn't even in the back of my mind.  I was simply stating the obvious. You are in single digit growth mode. Still faster than us, but like you said, still not nearly as fast as Raleigh or Charlotte.

In the same survey, Raleigh and Charlotte are in the top 10 for large City growth rate.  Virginia Beach is in the 50's. 

https://wallethub.com/edu/best-worst-large-cities-to-live-in/14358/#main-findings

But one bright spot for us in another survey by the same company (link, above) measuring Best City to Live in, Virginia Beach ranks number one (#1) among all large cities in America.  

Raleigh checks in at #20, Charlotte at #22. 

I agree, and we'll take it.

Edited November 16, 2017 by baobabs727

[eandslee]

No offense taken (it’s all good).  I just wanted the clarify that Richmond isn’t exactly lagging. It’s really catching up and also catching attention nationally as well. Granted, you all are doing better in that regard, but I think that Richmond is on the verge of an economic explosion (as long as the NIMBYs don’t screw it up for us).  We Richmonders feel your pain regarding the arena ordeal...we’ve seen crap like that happen all the time in Richmond and it’s very frustrating.  As you know, we are working on our own arena and I’m holding my breath that some NIMBY doesn’t rob us of the opportunity.  If so, we can cry on each other’s shoulders!

[BFG]

I'm going to be patient and give the area another couple years. I think Norfolk reaches its true potential by 2020 (or gets closer), and we see a few more moves made.

[urbanlife]

It is amazing how much Raleigh has grown and is growing, it use to be such a small city, as well as all the cities in that metro. Just the amount of development going on in their downtown is impressive.

[eandslee]

1 hour ago, urbanlife said:

It is amazing how much Raleigh has grown and is growing, it use to be such a small city, as well as all the cities in that metro. Just the amount of development going on in their downtown is impressive.

Yes...and I’m jealously sickened by it. 

[oduengineer]

You do realize that Virginia Beach had growth rates in the 80's and 90's that is similar to what Raleigh is experiencing now, right?   After the merger there were 172k people in 1970, 262k in 1980, and 393k in 1990.  For some reason, perhaps intentionally, we have slowed over the past 20 years. 50% growth rates for each of these decades.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Beach,_Virginia

[RVA-Is-The-Best]

Most of VB's population is just suburban sprawl. Kind of pointless to bother calling it a city. Reminds me of Loudoun County. Eventually it will run out of land and the gridlocked roads and lack of any meaningful public transportation will just choke it. I hope Norfolk powers ahead and leaves it behind. 

18 hours ago, oduengineer said:

You do realize that Virginia Beach had growth rates in the 80's and 90's that is similar to what Raleigh is experiencing now, right?   After the merger there were 172k people in 1970, 262k in 1980, and 393k in 1990.  For some reason, perhaps intentionally, we have slowed over the past 20 years. 50% growth rates for each of these decades.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Beach,_Virginia

Maybe growth is stagnating because VB is starting to run out of land to continue sprawling outward. Of course growth is going to slow down. Probably not intentional at all. Fairfax County growth would be stagnant now too if they hadn't been investing in the Silver Line and pushing smart growth, higher density transit oriented development in Reston, Herndon, Tysons, etc.

[BFG]

Pipe dream here, but why not?

Convert it to Virginia Beach County, and divide it into about seven or so towns (Pungo, Blackwater, Kempsville, Lynnhaven, Princess Anne, Pembroke, Bayside), and then the city/town of Virginia Beach, which would be the county seat. I could see Bayside actually merging into Norfolk. Basically go back to what it was prior to 1963.

It'll never happen, although I think the NIMBYs who hate the growth and progress would actually embrace the idea. It would give them independence, and allow the suburbs that wanna be suburbs to remain so. I do wish someone would challenge the old laws about how cities/counties are set up. It's flawed and outdated.

[oduengineer]

5 hours ago, RVA-Is-The-Best said:

Most of VB's population is just suburban sprawl. Kind of pointless to bother calling it a city. Reminds me of Loudoun County. Eventually it will run out of land and the gridlocked roads and lack of any meaningful public transportation will just choke it. I hope Norfolk powers ahead and leaves it behind. 

Maybe growth is stagnating because VB is starting to run out of land to continue sprawling outward. Of course growth is going to slow down. Probably not intentional at all. Fairfax County growth would be stagnant now too if they hadn't been investing in the Silver Line and pushing smart growth, higher density transit oriented development in Reston, Herndon, Tysons, etc.

Have you ever been to Virginia Beach???  Nearly half of the land is rural or undeveloped by design (national and state parks including First Landing SP, False Cape SP and Back Bay Natl Wildlife Refuge.  Density is increasing in several areas, however it will, thankfully, never be like Richmond.  VB is mostly suburban right now, but the availability of land IS NOT an issue.  Eventually, land below the green line will be developed more than it is now.

According to my rough calculations, these three parks alone are approximately 40% of the size of the entire city of Richmond.  

Edited November 18, 2017 by oduengineer

[wrldcoupe4]

I have no problems with VA Beach, but I’m curious what the point is re: parks compared to the size of the city? Va Beach is nearly 8x larger by land area (essentially the same size as Richmond and Chesterfield County combined). 

[baobabs727]

We also have quite a bit of water, way more than Richmond. And that is within our territory, not just the Alantic ocean. 

The parks, while truly significant environmentally and in size,  do not really fully explain the large land mass. What he was trying to tell you is that the Southern section is vast and extends all the way to the border with North Carolina. VB is a very large city in terms of land and water mass.  By most city standards, anyway.

Much (perhaps just over half) of it is still untouched--rural, undeveloped farm land.  Land that is likely never to be fully developed--by design. That's why the city stopped growing at the fastest rate in the nation once the 90s hit. City Council developed  "the greenline" south of which development could not occur except for that with special restrictions and severe limitations.  The city also initiatied an aggressive agricultural lease-back program ( agricultural reserve)  where it paid people not to develop for 20 years... even where they could have developed by right.

So love it or hate it, Virginia Beach has purposefully slowed regional growth over the past 25 years.  

And finally, just a quick question. A point of departure. Do you Richmond folks have some type of embed alert system here that ...when we type in the word "Richmond," you get a group message or an electric shock or something? I mean,  you guys are more than welcome to post here anytime you want to, and we would actually invite you to do so, but it's just that it seems like every time we mention Richmond... in any context... y'all come here on horseback carrying torches and singing your own praises (or torching VB haha). 

I don't know, I never even look at your Board. No offense, I just don't have the time.  But again, y'all come back soon now, ya heah?!  ;-)  Lol.  Seriously, do come back. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by baobabs727

[wrldcoupe4]

No embedded alert for me, I’m curious about development in other parts of Va as well, so I read about what’s going on in Hampton Roads. I want both regions prosper. I had just asked a question because, while I’m personally aware of the green space and green line in Va Beach, I didn’t understand what that had to do with Richmond. Not directed at you, but historically when someone from Richmond comments here, it’s generally not welcome, so I’ve decided just to stick to clarifying facts or asking for clarification on rare occasions.

Edited November 18, 2017 by wrldcoupe4

[eandslee]

On ‎11‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:35 PM, baobabs727 said:

And finally, just a quick question. A point of departure. Do you Richmond folks have some type of embed alert system here that ...when we type in the word "Richmond," you get a group message or an electric shock or something? I mean,  you guys are more than welcome to post here anytime you want to, and we would actually invite you to do so, but it's just that it seems like every time we mention Richmond... in any context... y'all come here on horseback carrying torches and singing your own praises (or torching VB haha). 

I don't know, I never even look at your Board. No offense, I just don't have the time.  But again, y'all come back soon now, ya heah?!  ;-)  Lol.  Seriously, do come back. 

Honestly, I just got bored over on the Richmond board because nothing was going on.  I do like to check out what's going on in other parts of Virginia though, so coming here from time to time is not out of the norm.  However, like wrldcoupe4 said, I too am noticing some animosity towards us Richmond folk on this board.  What gives?  What do you have against us anyway?

[baobabs727]

Guess what? I was on the Richmond Board late last night! I enjoyed it.  I, too, am interested in development all across Virginia. Seriously. In fact, I used to go there a lot more,  especially when Burt was alive, but I just don't have the time anymore. Heck,  I can barely keep up with our own board. I've been to RVA many times in my life, and I think that it's absolutely great. Now, mind you, I'm not moving there anytime soon, but I do think that it's swell. K?

As to the notion that we are hating on y'all....nah.  We love y'all. I'm not sure why you're getting that "other" vibe.  I think perhaps we're generally just making comparative statements. Not judgments. I think it's more fact-based with regard to comparing HR to other regions. Good and bad. Comparisons, that is. Not good or bad regions. Ha ha. 

I guess some here might've been a little taken aback at the description of Virginia Beach as some sort of wasteland,  when it's anything but. It's quite a beautiful place, actually. Yes, too many strip malls and sprawl, but VB also possesses important historical elements you probably don't know about, as well as great natural beauty… plus rural land that goes on and on for miles upon miles. You can easily get lost.  Not to mention our amazing state parks and our national wildlife refuge... and one of the nicest and longest boardwalks you'll find in America. Oh and Town Center ain't all that bad with the state's tallest tower and a concentration of high quality, dynamic neo-urban vertical development that would be the envy of any city her size.

Add to that an amazing conference center designed  by SOM, a  stunningly beautiful, state of the art performing arts center ...and a rapidly growing contemporary art museum and arts district... Great schools, tons of recreation…gorgeous waterfront neighborhoods… And friendly people. 

There's tons more say, but I'll end it there. So just wondering what you guys think of your own Short Pump?  I happen to admire the mall and its success.  But the rest might be compared to  something tantamount to developing a rural Virginia Beach into a series of strip malls and power centers with a myriad of shopping/dining options, plus suburban mcmansion development, a corporate hq or two... and a few stabs at new urbanism thrown in for good measure.  

Wait a minute. That kind of sounds like Virginia Beach from the 1960s thru the 1980s!  Well, minus the new urbanism thing. Lol.

Edited November 20, 2017 by baobabs727

[vdogg]

I was going to delete a lot of these comments, but I decided to just move them to off-topic with the reminder that we need to remain respectful of each other and our cities. City vs. City arguments are generally frowned upon on this site and can lead to threads being shut down. It's been a very long time since I've had to moderate or warn anybody about comments that they've made, please let's keep it that way. Thanks.

[vdogg]

In what is possibly the best news we've had this year, Kerry Dougherty is retiring!

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/columnist/kerry-dougherty/what-i-m-thankful-for-manson-s-death-college-football/article_3cb525d6-37f9-591a-a425-6db1b88c4cc2.html

It simply cannot be overstated how much her negative attitude towards anything resembling progress informed the public discourse. One less voice in the John Moss, John T. Atkinson, and Reid Greenmun faction of Va. Beach and perhaps a chance for a more moderate point of view. I'm not looking for a cheerleader, but I'm hoping that whoever the pilot chooses is a bit younger, and can perhaps look at our city's future with a fresh set of eyes. After so many disappointments this year, this feels like an opportunity to move forward.

[baobabs727]

Vdogg, I  agree with everything you said.  

Problem is we can't even count on  "younger" to be better...to have real vision for how to grow this city in order to retain our brains… to attract new brains ...to create world-class entertainment and lifestyle amenities...to bring high paying jobs and whole new (cutting edge) industries here...to grow our population base in both number and in wealth... to wisely but aggressively spend city dollars to fully transform Virginia Beach into the kind of place that it was always destined to become!

When I say we can't count on younger ones, I'm referring to someone who's already been tried and tested. Major fail.

That younger one? Her name?  

Jessica Abbott, a.k.a., John Moss' star pupil.

I watch almost every, single city council workshop and formal session in both major HR cities on my AppleTV via YouTube.  Yes, I'm so hip. Um, not! Er...anyway, so trust me when I tell you that Abbott looks at John Moss as her guru.  Her mentor.  Her teacher.  Her political brother in arms. She refers and defers to him all the time. She votes with John almost 100% of the time. You can argue with me all you want to about how she's misunderstood or she's open/receptive on FB or by email, or whatever, but the bottom line is...she is not on our team. Period. 

And just to point out one example of many which demonstrate her myopic and throwback views--those which belie her younger age--she once wasted our valuable time by repeatedly berating a developer and his development team for having the audacity to specifically market his Bonney Road project to millennials, claiming something along the lines of,  "millennials are deeply offended by this and would never approve of these types of corporate welfare giveaways using city tax dollars...."   Believe it or not, she basically went on to intimate that millennials were uniquely and so very aghast at corporate welfare in this instance that they would use it against the developer and never choose to live there.

Aww, well bless her lil' heart.

Now, where do we find younger folks to run for office who actually think like we think younger folks should think?  LOL

Edited November 22, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

3 hours ago, vdogg said:

In what is possibly the best news we've had this year, Kerry Dougherty is retiring!

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/columnist/kerry-dougherty/what-i-m-thankful-for-manson-s-death-college-football/article_3cb525d6-37f9-591a-a425-6db1b88c4cc2.html

It simply cannot be overstated how much her negative attitude towards anything resembling progress informed the public discourse. One less voice in the John Moss, John T. Atkinson, and Reid Greenmun faction of Va. Beach and perhaps a chance for a more moderate point of view. I'm not looking for a cheerleader, but I'm hoping that whoever the pilot chooses is a bit younger, and can perhaps look at our city's future with a fresh set of eyes. After so many disappointments this year, this feels like an opportunity to move forward.

I wish her the best in retirement, but will not miss her negative NIMBY attitude, most of which were ill-informed and poorly researched. She perfectly represents her city and is everything that bugs me about Virginia Beach. 

[vdogg]

1 hour ago, BFG said:

I wish her the best in retirement, but will not miss her negative NIMBY attitude, most of which were ill-informed and poorly researched. She perfectly represents her city and is everything that bugs me about Virginia Beach. 

Correction, she perfectly represents the most vocal portion of the city, but not necessarily the city at large. See this past election as an example, or even the light rail vote in 2012. High turnout elections tend to moderate the city's stance on a lot of issues, and go in a direction that is a bit more progressive towards our city's future. I think she represents a faction that is trying with all their might to cling to power in this city, and the latest protestations  are a direct result of them feeling that power is slipping away. Generational change is always hard, and the results tend to be uneven with a bunch of fits and starts. I think that, generally, we are moving in the right direction. It's just taking a lot longer than any of us had hoped.

[baobabs727]

2 hours ago, vdogg said:

Correction, she perfectly represents the most vocal portion of the city, but not necessarily the city at large. See this past election as an example, or even the light rail vote in 2012. High turnout elections tend to moderate the city's stance on a lot of issues, and go in a direction that is a bit more progressive towards our city's future. I think she represents a faction that is trying with all their might to cling to power in this city, and the latest protestations  are a direct result of them feeling that power is slipping away. Generational change is always hard, and the results tend to be uneven with a bunch of fits and starts. I think that, generally, we are moving in the right direction. It's just taking a lot longer than any of us had hoped.

Here, here!  Well said.

[Beb96]

So is this happening or has there been another delay?

Edited November 26, 2017 by Beb96

[urbanvb]

 

Edited December 8, 2017 by urbanvb

[BFG]

Mount Trashmore is getting a bit of a facelift, with a new stage and steps on the hill. There's also going to be an observation deck along the lake.

https://pilotonline.com/news/local/article_91526ae7-b9ca-5fbb-9b0d-3bd0c5637e55.html

[BFG]

A new Bitcoin mining data center is opening in VB, off Greenwich Road. I still don't quite understand what Bitcoin is, so I'm not sure if this is good news or just a flash-in-the-pan.

https://pilotonline.com/business/article_b410c493-1c2a-53fb-a83a-02ca4a41b940.html?spMailingID=12769536&spUserID=MTUzOTIwMTcwODkwS0&spJobID=1321632700&spReportId=MTMyMTYzMjcwMAS2#utm_source=pilotonline.com&utm_campaign=%2Fnewsletters%2Fpilot%2Fdaily%2F%3Fmailing%3Ddaily&utm_medium=email&utm_content=headline