Gas prices approaching $4

[paletexan]

It's not certain gas prices will reach $4 per gallon, but the current trend cannot be denied. It seems like the Triangle and similar car-dependent metro areas throughout the United States would become crippled by excessive gas prices.

What changes would you expect in growth, transit and real estate prices in the future with gas prices inching upwards?

It seems to me that mostly commuter towns like Apex, Holly Springs, Fuquary Varina, etc will become less desirable, and real estate closer to employment will rise steadily. Development in and near RTP and downtown Raleigh/Durham will likely pickup as well.

Regarding transit, I would predict an increase in bus ridership in the medium run, and better route coverage to accomodate those newly found passengers.

[ericurbanite]

It would be terrible on the economy here. Its less money in consumers hands and retailers and other businesses are fighting for every dollar they can get out of consumers. I think thats one factor of many why more and more cities are looking for live, work, play urban communities. I do not even want to think about 4 bucks a gallon though, its tough enough driving by a gas station today and seeing 2.82 / gallon. I know I have cut back on my driving alot and carpool with people when I can.

[NcSc74]

Well gas has already hit the 3 dollar mark here in Vegas and it hasn't really sunk in yet. I imagine the people who can afford to spend the extra cash on petro it will not affect very much. But others such as myself can't afford to drive my vehicle and then help my wife with hers as she searches for a job. I have already began to throttle back on spending. I didn't have that much disposable income as it is. Vegas is an expensive town so the rise in gas is hitting me pretty hard. I would hope this is temporary. However I don't forsee the prices going under 2 dollars out here anytime soon. This could be the final wake up call for the US. Either drill away or build sustainable mass transit lines for the mass public. Hint to the big three automakers HYBRID. If I could take my full size V8 powered Durango back without penalty I would. I was never a truck guy anyway.

[IBruton]

Gas was $3.01 in South Raleigh today, near Garner. The Raceway (closer to the beltline) was selling for $2.55, but had run out of regular. All they had when I arrived was premium, for $2.75 (so I put in $26.00 worth).

This is getting ridiculous. I imagine that the people who live in Johnston County will have the hardest time.

[orulz]

In the short term, I expect a lot more people to ride the bus. TTA buses might actually be full for once. I work in RTP, and a rather unexpectedly large number of friends and co-workers have come to me asking about how to commute on the bus.

Some people were surprised or gave me the "I'm so sorry" look when I say I commute on my bike, but now I hear "Wow, must be nice..."

I try not to gloat (okay, well, sometimes...) but I went pretty far out of my way to plan my life so I don't need a car at all - and it's paying off big time. The people who planned their lives so they are completely dependent on their cars are sure to be hurting right about now.

[paletexan]

In the short term, I expect a lot more people to ride the bus. TTA buses might actually be full for once. I work in RTP, and a rather unexpectedly large number of friends and co-workers have come to me asking about how to commute on the bus.

Some people were surprised or gave me the "I'm so sorry" look when I say I commute on my bike, but now I hear "Wow, must be nice..."

I try not to gloat (okay, well, sometimes...) but I went pretty far out of my way to plan my life so I don't need a car at all - and it's paying off big time. The people who planned their lives so they are completely dependent on their cars are sure to be hurting right about now.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad your foresight is paying off now, and your gloating is probably shared similarly by other cities that planned ahead as well.

You bring up a great point about biking. The triangle might (and should) invest in more bike lanes throughout the area since we've already established through poor planning that walking is just not an option. I know they've built them on some newer roads (like the Edwards Mill ext in West Raleigh). My boss has successfully biked from Ebenezer Church Rd area to Airport Blvd in Morrisville (approx 35 minutes). I might have to give it a try since the gas stations in West Raleigh are out of everything except 93 octane for tonight.

[urbanesq]

It's $2.999 in my neighborhood this evening, and will be over $3 tomorrow. I'm guessing that it hits $4.00 by mid-September.

In the short term, not being one of those people who have arranged my life such that I need no car (despite very much wanting to do so-- long story, tell you later), in the short term I plan to start working from home at least once per week. Thankfully I have the flexibility to do that.

Sadly, there's nobody in my area with whom I can carpool, and my hours aren't conducive for that at any rate. TTA isn't time competitive for me; can't wait until the train gets running so it will be!

Hopefully the rising gas prices will mean an influx of riders on the buses for those who can work that into their commutes. Hope it focuses public attention on the Triangle's need for mobility options and increases demand for transit. PERFECT opportunity for TTA to launch one of those public relations campaigns we keep advocating on the board...

[orulz]

TTA isn't time competitive for me

Buses generally aren't. Well, express buses are, but that's another story.

The point is, though, if it just turns a 30 minute trip into a 45 minute trip, the fact that you save money by not paying for gas, and that you get to do more or less whatever you want on the bus (work, read, sleep) makes it worthwhile for some. Of course when a 20 minute car trip takes 60 minutes by bus it's hard to justify, but when the difference is less severe, other factors beyond simply time competitiveness come into play.

But, in my opinion, the full benefit of public transit and buses can't be realized unless you get rid of your car. You avoid all the direct AND indirect expenses associated with owning a car - the insurance, the lease payments, the maintenance, as well as the gas; you become more physically active because you walk or bike a lot more; and most of all, you have a greater degree of immunity to spikes in gas prices like this.

[JunktionFET]

I saw two gas stations in RTP wednesday afternoon with $3.09 proudly displayed, and people were going for it! It's weird since the day started with the prices much lower.

Unfortunately, stupid TTA doesn't run buses out of RTP late enough for me and my 10-7 work schedule. There is a perfect bus route though which goes from Waverly Place (very near my home) to the Davis Dr transfer point. From there I could ride one of the frequent shuttles onto my campus. Morning commute isn't a problem, but the last afternoon bus leaves Davis Dr at 6:20PM. ARGH!! Maybe I can shift my schedule around or something.

Gas prices aside, I'm tired of driving (I know I keep saying that). I'd much rather drive my car 2 miles on lower volume suburban roads, park at Waverly Place, then just take the bus to RTP and zone out.

Oh yeah, and where's my regional rail system???

[orulz]

Unfortunately, stupid TTA doesn't run buses out of RTP late enough for me and my 10-7 work schedule. There is a perfect bus route though which goes from Waverly Place (very near my home) to the Davis Dr transfer point. From there I could ride one of the frequent shuttles onto my campus. Morning commute isn't a problem, but the last afternoon bus leaves Davis Dr at 6:20PM. ARGH!! Maybe I can shift my schedule around or something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aha! another potential 302 customer who doesn't ride it because the schedule is too constraining. Are you listening, TTA?

TTA is considering canceling route 302 in November because of poor ridership. Replaced with a Raleigh-Apex direct route. But I say the ridership on the 302 sucks because the hours of service suck. I'd rather see the 302 run through the day (midday) and finish at 7:30pm, but I guess funding is the problem.

[ericurbanite]

This makes me want to live downtown for the convenience factor of not having to use my car for everything. The only thing I would need my car for is going to work, and maybe a few other things. Other than that I could walk everywhere. Only if there was some affordable living in those condos then I would be moving. You are right though orulz a car does bring on alot of money (add to that list - yearly inspections, tag renewal, drivers liscence fees, property tax on your car, parking fines/tickets, speeding tickets etc.)

Maybe if America did transport with bikes we wouldnt have the obesity problem we do now ha. Interesting if you think about it.

[dmccall]

Have y'all seen this Carfree Cities site? Interesting idea of a daisy-wheel rail system with everyone living within 10min of a train.

http://www.carfree.com/

Maybe they could rebuild New Orleans in this way as an experiment.

[MR-2]

It's impossible to make an American city car-free with the current infastructure. The best you can do is have huge suburban parking lots and quick train service to a few hubs, and lots of small hubs without parking lots in the city center. (Washington DC for instance) Stuff like Crabtree, North Hills, Glenwood South, NCSU, Pleasant Valley/Cary Town Center in Cary, then several sites in a grid downtown would be ideal. (Obviously Durham would have its own central grid and branching suburban sites).

[waynehead]

The stores along 54 in RTP today had prices set at 3.29 or 3.39...but I think we'll top out there, for now, if the news about the pipelines opening back up is true. We'll probably settle back down to ~2.75 through the fall, but after that, who knows? Can anyone intelligently speculate, or point to a website/person who has? How long before we have $5/gallon?

[NCMike1981]

I want .88 cents again like we had back around 1999...

[dmccall]

uuuhhhhh...are you SURE about that price you recall?

Check out this:

http://home.nc.rr.com/hoopla/gasprices.gif

for a historical perspective. It's not THAT BAD y'all.

Did you also want to go back to the wage you had when gas was $0.88??

I want .88 cents again like we had back around 1999...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[MR-2]

uuuhhhhh...are you SURE about that price you recall?

Check out this:

http://home.nc.rr.com/hoopla/gasprices.gif

for a historical perspective. It's not THAT BAD y'all.

Did you also want to go back to the wage you had when gas was $0.88?? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a can of worms you'd do well to not open.

[urbanesq]

It's not THAT BAD y'all.

Did you also want to go back to the wage you had when gas was $0.88?? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My 1999 wages weren't all that much lower than my 2005 wages.

I dunno-- IMO it seems pretty bad: the prices we're seeing at the pumps today, if those inflation-adjusted numbers in the chart are accurate, set a new record high.

Anybody have achart that shows inflation-adjusted numbers from the 70's shortage years? i have not-so-fond memories of waiting in those lines with my mom FOR HOURS, and can't believe we've let ourselves get back to that.

[NCMike1981]

There was a little local gas station in Hillsborough off of Old NC 10 across from the Chandler Concrete Plant that had a 5 cents off gas day on, I believe Friday. So essentially gas was regularly .93/gallon but that day it was .88/gallon. I was a senior in HS, so yes I'm making more money then I did back then....But I remember all over Wilmington when I moved there later in '99 gas was under $1/gallon. Then it seemed so high when gas went up to $1.50.

[orulz]

Seriously, when I first started driving (1998) gas was in the $.80's per gallon. I had a car then (A hand-me-down 20 year old toyota that backfired and had a front fender made out of unpainted bondo) and I could get to school and back (30 mile round trip) with the change in my pocket.

Heh. Those days are no more.

[JunktionFET]

I finally had to stop for some fuel on thursday evening... I was expecting to pay an enormous amount per gallon (and really I did), but it was a lot less than I expected. I filled up with B20 Biodiesel of course. The station was sold out of everything except the B20 Biodiesel and some 87 octane gasoline. They were selling the gasoline for like $3.31 a gallon, but the B20 was only $2.86 a gallon. I admit it was a pleasant surprise, which is sad in itself. I assume that the sharp difference in price might be due to the fact that B20 contains 20 percent less petroleum than normal petroleum Diesel.

Speaking of such things, the cubicles at work were buzzing about this:

TTA free rides on express service

Also Triangle area transit systems (including TTA) have been using B20 Biodiesel for quite a while now (since 2003? maybe earlier), and they are really going out of their way to support groups that promote use of the fuel:

SmartCommute and Biodiesel

Now if they could only expand their schedules (ahem, route 302) and give me my damn rail system, they would be perfect. Err, sort of.

[ralncdude]

I finally had to stop for some fuel on thursday evening... I was expecting to pay an enormous amount per gallon (and really I did), but it was a lot less than I expected. I filled up with B20 Biodiesel of course. The station was sold out of everything except the B20 Biodiesel and some 87 octane gasoline. They were selling the gasoline for like $3.31 a gallon, but the B20 was only $2.86 a gallon. I admit it was a pleasant surprise, which is sad in itself. I assume that the sharp difference in price might be due to the fact that B20 contains 20 percent less petroleum than normal petroleum Diesel.

Speaking of such things, the cubicles at work were buzzing about this:

TTA free rides on express service

Also Triangle area transit systems (including TTA) have been using B20 Biodiesel for quite a while now (since 2003? maybe earlier), and they are really going out of their way to support groups that promote use of the fuel:

SmartCommute and Biodiesel

Now if they could only expand their schedules (ahem, route 302) and give me my damn rail system, they would be perfect. Err, sort of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took the SmartcCommute challenge. The green wristband gives you discounts and promotions. You get free bus rides on both TTA and Cat from Sept 19 - 23, and Sept. 22 only on DATA.

www.smartcommute.org

[Jones_]

Ahhh...nothing like a little ol' 6 mile bike ride to start the day at the office off right...

[ChiefJoJo]

... or a 1/2 mile walk to the office B)

[JunktionFET]

I got my green armband! YAY

I ventured up to the Davis Dr TTA station at around 3pm today. BTW orulz, I saw someone that I actually thought might've been you (had the bike with the crate and all)... but I decided against introducing myself for fear of sounding like an idiot (in case it wasn't you).