Norfolk Stores and Retail and Resturants

[urbanlife]

we just banned smoking indoors here and it has been amazing.

[virginia pe]

we just banned smoking indoors here and it has been amazing.

How so? Good or bad? Can you share some of the impacts the smoking ban has had? Any cases of the law of unintended consequences? I would like to hear how it is working.

Just to help us understand your perspective, if you don't mind, would you also let us know if you are a smoker, or if you had strong personal opinions on the smoking ban, either pro or con?

[skylinefan]

We are into our second year of a smoking ban and all of the people who said that it would hurt business have all grown silent. As far as I know no business has gone out of business because of the ban on smoking. What tends to happen is that first some establishments will see their business drop off, but in time the smokers returned (smoking outside) and they get more of the non-smokers. Being a lifelong asthmatic I really enjoy going out to bars and restaurants now and not have to worry about escaping to the bathroom to take a hit from my inhaler. Of course another plus is I no longer have to air out my coats and clothes to get the nasty smoke smell out. This is a great and long overdue move by the state of Virginia and to think Norfolk was one of the first ciities in the Commonwealth to try to ban smoking.

[Weaver24]

Bill's Flea Market will go in the old bowling alley on Military Highway. This is close to the intersection of Military Highway and Norview Ave, and its across from the neighboorhood Tanners Creek and Meadowbrook I believe is behind it. This flea market used to be in Va Beach near the town center before the building was burned down. What you guys think about this? I wonder did they get it approved by the city, because the city council has to approve all new thrift stores and flea markets that comes into Norfolk... I don't mind flea markets but I think there are enough in that area of Norfolk. There is a flea market across the new Wawa on Little Creek Road, and there is one on Military Highway near the airport. There are numerous thrift stores on Little Creek Road and other parts of Norfolk. I go to flea markets from time to time, but I think too much of anything especially flea markets and thrift stores, will give Norfolk a tawdry, tacky and cheap impression.

[Norfolk4Life]

absolutely behind you on that. I'll keep my eye out for a request on the council docket. I would oppose that.

[jeffconn]

A new Bill's Flea Market? This is GREAT NEWS! I used to love going to the store in Va Beach. It was an afternoon well spent. I LOVE going to thrift stores and flea markets. BTW, the reason there are so many thrift stores and fleas in that part of Norfolk is because they are needed, and they are SUCCESSFUL, just like the 2 Wal-Mart's in that part of town. (Thanks for the economy, W!) So don't be a NIMBY when it comes to thrifty shopping.

[spiker3]

A new Bill's Flea Market? This is GREAT NEWS! I used to love going to the store in Va Beach. It was an afternoon well spent. I LOVE going to thrift stores and flea markets. BTW, the reason there are so many thrift stores and fleas in that part of Norfolk is because they are needed, and they are SUCCESSFUL, just like the 2 Wal-Mart's in that part of town. (Thanks for the economy, W!) So don't be a NIMBY when it comes to thrifty shopping.

I'm not a mod, but watch the political comments. It can and will offend some, myself included

It's be worth looking into to see if Norfolk approved it or not...i wasn't even aware the bowling alley was gone but i don't get out that way often

[jeffconn]

I'm not a mod, but watch the political comments. It can and will offend some, myself included

It's be worth looking into to see if Norfolk approved it or not...i wasn't even aware the bowling alley was gone but i don't get out that way often

Um, right. How many topics in UP have to deal with the local idiot governor/senator/mayor/manager/etc.? i'm willing to bet that there are more posts than not, that have political comments.

As for the bowling alley, for some reason, there have been a rash of them closing nationwide lately. i would have thought that folks would get cheap entertainment at the bowling alley in these hard times.

[vdogg]

Local political comments are ok as long they relate to urban development in the area, though i prefer local political issues be confined to the civics/government threads. National political issues belong in the main coffee house only. I generally overlook a random off the cuff remark but often those blow up into full scale political debates at which time I have to delete or move things.

[lil-bear]

My family owns the Military Lanes property. My grandfather and his parents used to farm that land. Harvey Lindsay leases it from my family and they sub-lease it out. In addition to the bowling alley building, there is also a Charlie Falks and another used car lot. I'm not too excited about a potential flea market, but it's better than an empty building.

[Glassoul]

I am very pleased to see that Virginia will apparently very soon become a place where smoking is no longer allowed in restaurants. While I am not interested in debating that, I am interested in what impact there will be on our Norfolk restaurants. I suspect that a few establsihments that cater to the heavy smoking and drinkers may have some troubles...perhaps serious troubles, but I think overall more restaurant business will result because people will no longer have to worry, wonder or perhaps avoid certain restaurants because of the concern with smoke.

Quebec banned smoking in bars, nightclubs, and restaurants in 2006. It didn't seem to affect the restaurants too badly, but a lot of bars and some nightclubs went out of business as a direct result of the change.

[skylinefan]

Quebec banned smoking in bars, nightclubs, and restaurants in 2006. It didn't seem to affect the restaurants too badly, but a lot of bars and some nightclubs went out of business as a direct result of the change.

Here in DC we had a a nightclub and bar or two go out of business but overall business weathered the storm. Now that everything has settled down it has actually helped business and the smokers that use to smoke freely in the bars have adapted and smoke outside. I really think that the bars on Granby, Waterside, Ocean View etc. will probably experience the same thing.

Get use to seeing groups of people outside of bars and restaurants socializing in a haze of smoke. The cigarette butts outside establishments may actually become a litter problem. Get ready to see bar and restaurant staff going outside to clean up the debris left over from smokers. One thing you might see are these strange looking genie lamp shaped things outside that are actually butt repositories. All in all this is great news for the Commonwealth and if the state follows the same path as other states that have banned smoking in bars and restaurants, more and more people may opt to quit smoking altogether.

[urbanlife]

Quebec banned smoking in bars, nightclubs, and restaurants in 2006. It didn't seem to affect the restaurants too badly, but a lot of bars and some nightclubs went out of business as a direct result of the change.

Cant smoke indoors on the entire west coast and cant smoke indoors in Ireland...we are all doing much better because of it.

Actually my family now lives in Spokane, Wa which is a small city, the night life use to kind of suck there when you could smoke in the bars, but since Washington banned it, it has become such a more active downtown. I have really become pro banning of smoking indoors.

[Weaver24]

A new Bill's Flea Market? This is GREAT NEWS! I used to love going to the store in Va Beach. It was an afternoon well spent. I LOVE going to thrift stores and flea markets. BTW, the reason there are so many thrift stores and fleas in that part of Norfolk is because they are needed, and they are SUCCESSFUL, just like the 2 Wal-Mart's in that part of town. (Thanks for the economy, W!) So don't be a NIMBY when it comes to thrifty shopping.

I think you misunderstood me. I go to thrift stores and flea markets from time to time myself. I don't have anything against them but sometimes too much of something (both upscale and low end retail) can cause some people to shun the area. Yes they are needed (and again I stop at some from time to time) but I think they should be spread out to other areas and other cities in the region. I also notice that while other cities in HR have thrift stores, but none have flea markets, even Portsmouth and Hampton, which both have similiar demographics to Norfolk. I'm not pretentious, elitist or snooty by any means, but I don't want Norfolk to have a tawdry, tacky and very low end image. I'm not being a NIMBY but just think that this area should be used up to its full potential. The neighboorhood behind it, Meadowbrook I believe, is very nice and Tanner's Creek is a fairly nice area as well. Again, there is NOTHING wrong about flea markets, but too much in one area could further damage Norfolk's reputation and make the city less appealing.

[Weaver24]

Charley's Grilled Subs will replace Steak Escape at MacArthur. I never tried this place but I think there is one at either Lynnhaven or Greenbrier. Authentic Fossil is also coming to MacArthur on the second floor.

[virginia pe]

Has anyone eaten at The 219 on Granby Street? I've never been there, but a group was planning on meeting there for brunch on Sunday. They called last night and told us not to come. They were closing as of Thursday and will not re-open.

Another one bites the dust.

[jeffconn]

I think you misunderstood me. I go to thrift stores and flea markets from time to time myself. I don't have anything against them but sometimes too much of something (both upscale and low end retail) can cause some people to shun the area. Yes they are needed (and again I stop at some from time to time) but I think they should be spread out to other areas and other cities in the region. I also notice that while other cities in HR have thrift stores, but none have flea markets, even Portsmouth and Hampton, which both have similiar demographics to Norfolk. I'm not pretentious, elitist or snooty by any means, but I don't want Norfolk to have a tawdry, tacky and very low end image. I'm not being a NIMBY but just think that this area should be used up to its full potential. The neighboorhood behind it, Meadowbrook I believe, is very nice and Tanner's Creek is a fairly nice area as well. Again, there is NOTHING wrong about flea markets, but too much in one area could further damage Norfolk's reputation and make the city less appealing.

I think you are looking at it in the wrong way. That part of Norfolk, (Little Creek Road and Military Highway) already has 2 used book stores, a Dollar General, 2 flea markets, a used videogame store, 4 thrift stores, a Big Lots, and 2 Dollar Tree's. It's a thrifty shopping paradise. My wife and I have spent quite a few afternoons down Little Creek bargain hunting. We hop from store to store, usually spend more than we intend to, and eat lunch at Megallon's or the Bel-Aire Pancake House. If Norfolk had any vision, they would market Little Creek/Military Hwy as a bargain hunter's destination. Do the other cities in Hampton Roads have an area with so much concentrated thrift? If not, then market it to the other cities. In other words, take the perceived lemons and make lemonade. In this "economic downturn", thrift stores and bargain stores can actually draw customers to an area, not turn them away.

Apologies for that rant. I tend to go on and on about thrift stores, flea markets and yard sales. God bless 'em!

[spiker3]

Has anyone eaten at The 219 on Granby Street? I've never been there, but a group was planning on meeting there for brunch on Sunday. They called last night and told us not to come. They were closing as of Thursday and will not re-open.

Another one bites the dust.

They were trying to sell, asking for $1.6 mil for the business, obviously it didn't work out.

[mikeas]

They were trying to sell, asking for $1.6 mil for the business, obviously it didn't work out.

Or maybe they did sell and the new owners want to make changes immediately? Highly unlikely but possible.

Sterlings has changed to Snappers and is more focused on Seafood now though they still offer steaks.

[mlsimons]

This is off topic...But

I really do not understand the retail mix and demand downtown. I understand that the options are limited, so I can see why the prices are so high. But I still find vacancies here and there, especially north of Brambleton.

Now I have been recently to smaller towns (Greensboro, Wilmington) and their downtowns are both bussling. All sorts of shops, local coffee, music/instrument stores, off beat/retro fasions, surf/skate, etc etc etc!

Now, it seems like Macarthur is right round the corner, which would drive people into the area initially, and the transition to more off the path shopping would lead people down Granby. The overall population of the region is greater than the before mentioned places...so I really don't understand the lag.

I'm sure we can all theorize on the problem. But I'm guessing that most theories are not the real reason (in other words, a lot of downtowns including vibrant ones, have the same problems we have) so why isn't Granby st/downtown really popping???

[mikeas]

This is off topic...But

I really do not understand the retail mix and demand downtown. I understand that the options are limited, so I can see why the prices are so high. But I still find vacancies here and there, especially north of Brambleton.

Now I have been recently to smaller towns (Greensboro, Wilmington) and their downtowns are both bussling. All sorts of shops, local coffee, music/instrument stores, off beat/retro fasions, surf/skate, etc etc etc!

Now, it seems like Macarthur is right round the corner, which would drive people into the area initially, and the transition to more off the path shopping would lead people down Granby. The overall population of the region is greater than the before mentioned places...so I really don't understand the lag.

I'm sure we can all theorize on the problem. But I'm guessing that most theories are not the real reason (in other words, a lot of downtowns including vibrant ones, have the same problems we have) so why isn't Granby st/downtown really popping???

7 cities are always fighting for the best retail which spreads the consumer thin. Either we need lots more population downtown or we need to slow down the suburban sprawl on other cities, which isn't going to happen...

I do think once all of the under construction apartments are finished it should help out quite a bit. Ghent is always bustling with activity due to the high number of people living in the area. There must be 100 apartment buildings in Ghent and a couple thousand single family homes all within a couple square miles.

[spiker3]

This is off topic...But

I really do not understand the retail mix and demand downtown. I understand that the options are limited, so I can see why the prices are so high. But I still find vacancies here and there, especially north of Brambleton.

Now I have been recently to smaller towns (Greensboro, Wilmington) and their downtowns are both bussling. All sorts of shops, local coffee, music/instrument stores, off beat/retro fasions, surf/skate, etc etc etc!

Now, it seems like Macarthur is right round the corner, which would drive people into the area initially, and the transition to more off the path shopping would lead people down Granby. The overall population of the region is greater than the before mentioned places...so I really don't understand the lag.

I'm sure we can all theorize on the problem. But I'm guessing that most theories are not the real reason (in other words, a lot of downtowns including vibrant ones, have the same problems we have) so why isn't Granby st/downtown really popping???

Part of the issue is that downtown Norfolk is still not yet a traditional, 24/7 downtown. Monday - Friday there's workers downtown, from 8/9 AM - 5/6 PM...then they leave, to go home to Chesapeake or Virginia Beach. Friday nights and Saturday nights there's late night traffic, but little else. Saturday and Sunday there's traffic to MacArthur, but that's an enclosed space, there's nothing enticing them to venture across the street. While Norfolk has made impressive strides in bringing residents to downtown, there's still miles to go before there's people downtown continuously throughout the day. There also needs to be paths and traffic driving to bring people from MacArthur and Town Point Park to Granby St, connecting all of downtown. Currently, that's not anywhere near happening.

[brikkman]

Part of the issue is that downtown Norfolk is still not yet a traditional, 24/7 downtown. Monday - Friday there's workers downtown, from 8/9 AM - 5/6 PM...then they leave, to go home to Chesapeake or Virginia Beach. Friday nights and Saturday nights there's late night traffic, but little else. Saturday and Sunday there's traffic to MacArthur, but that's an enclosed space, there's nothing enticing them to venture across the street. While Norfolk has made impressive strides in bringing residents to downtown, there's still miles to go before there's people downtown continuously throughout the day. There also needs to be paths and traffic driving to bring people from MacArthur and Town Point Park to Granby St, connecting all of downtown. Currently, that's not anywhere near happening.

+1

MacArthur center is a great benefit but also part of the problem. I do not know th rents inside the mall, but they have to be better than granby street leases. I can not see people paying 12 grand a month for a coffe shop and i suspect the yoga center on granby goes heads up soon. The greed is keeping Norfolk from being great, who wants to invest when it takes your life savings to do so. Also, a college, expensive food, quazi booklets, yoga, and bars is a crazy mix...no direction.

[urbanvb]

I was downtown this past weekend and noticed some work being done on the third anchor space at MacArthur. Anyone know what is going on?

[mlsimons]

+1

MacArthur center is a great benefit but also part of the problem. I do not know th rents inside the mall, but they have to be better than granby street leases. I can not see people paying 12 grand a month for a coffe shop and i suspect the yoga center on granby goes heads up soon. The greed is keeping Norfolk from being great, who wants to invest when it takes your life savings to do so. Also, a college, expensive food, quazi booklets, yoga, and bars is a crazy mix...no direction.

This makes the most sense to me...it seems there is no clear direction, but too many different market forces trying to provide the highest and best use. It ends up just providing several expensive businesses/restaurants but not one clear/consistent district for which the consumer can rely on. The only trend seems to be high end restaurants and clubs. Everything else suffers from the fact they are not conforming to the trend. They are given high rents because there is the possibility to attract a nice restaurant but the street is over crowded with restaurants, and the fact that its a downtown makes off-beat small business want the lease space instead.

Sorry to ramble, but to rap up I hope the retail at Wells Fargo frees up/mixes up some of the downtown retail and makes it possible for smaller businesses to lease again on Granby.

Edited February 17, 2009 by mlsimons