The Question of Rebuilding New Orleans

[tombarnes]

Another grim assessment, this from the Vail Daily News....

http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20051006/NEWS/110060039

[sleepy]

I don't think there's a need to build a light rail system all the way to Baton Rouge, but either high speed rail or commuter rail should be a must. I'm not too familiar with metro New Orleans, but I do believe that a metro wide light rail system should become a part of the plan to rebuild the area.

What the hell, I start this off with some possible routes for a system.

I may be wrong, but it wouldn't hurt to run a light rail line, from the airport, down Veterans Blvd, then some way, connecting it to the Canal Street line, which could become part of the light rail system. Then extend the Canal line to Robert E. Lee Blvd (on the North side of town), and loop it back down Elysian Fields Avenue to connect with a line running parallel to the river. This line would start at Canal St, using Rampart St/St. Claude Ave/Franklin Ave and finally State Road 39E stretching into the eastern portions of town. The St Charles streetcar would stay, but would be expanded down Carrollton Ave, creating a loop back to Canal Street.

Frankly, I think a light rail system in the city itself would be a waste of money. New Orleans has an excellent bus system--I rode it for years--that's quick and runs about every 10 min. during rush hours.

The only stats I have for public transit in New Orleans are from 1997, but have the city ranking 5th nationally in percapita public transit use.

http://www.publicpurpose.com/ut-us97pc-sys.htm

Light rail from downtown to the airport, Slidell, and Covington, and perhaps New Orleans East, is a good idea. The problem with Covington, though, is getting the thing across Lake Pontchartrain.

[tombarnes]

The evacuation of Houston prior to Rita would suggest that bus systems and cars have their limitations, especially whenb employed as a means of mass evacuation. I am certain that a rail system would have limitations as well. This, however, is a chance to think outside the cell into which the oil and automobile industries have thrown all of us. Build a rail system and many will use it. Build a bus system and only those who must use it will do so. I am not saying that cars should be taken out of the equation, only that this is a unique chance to increase the options for everyone in the metropolitan area. Regional thinking is good. Without it, we will simply get more sprawl.

[sleepy]

Build a bus system and only those who must use it will do so.

That's not true in New Orleans, at least the city. Many people from all walks of life ride the buses. I always took the bus downtown for work and/or play.

But I think you're right for the suburbs.

[Aessotariq]

Light rail from downtown to the airport, Slidell, and Covington, and perhaps New Orleans East, is a good idea. The problem with Covington, though, is getting the thing across Lake Pontchartrain.

I'm picturing two ways that can be done:

(1) The trains could run in vehicular traffic. Run track in the right-hand lane of each bridge span. A mile or two before reaching land, they would shift to a dedicated lane and separate from traffic so as not to produce conflicts on land.

(2) The second way would be to build a single-span bridge, rather than two, and run the trains down the middle. You could apply the same method to the I-10 bridge and connect to Slidell as well. A similar idea has been proposed for the Baylink streetcar project in Miami, part of which will require two bridge crossings and a new right-of-way along a landbridge in Biscayne Bay.

[NCB]

I'm picturing two ways that can be done:

(1) The trains could run in vehicular traffic. Run track in the right-hand lane of each bridge span. A mile or two before reaching land, they would shift to a dedicated lane and separate from traffic so as not to produce conflicts on land.

(2) The second way would be to build a single-span bridge, rather than two, and run the trains down the middle. You could apply the same method to the I-10 bridge and connect to Slidell as well. A similar idea has been proposed for the Baylink streetcar project in Miami, part of which will require two bridge crossings and a new right-of-way along a landbridge in Biscayne Bay.

Well, the newest causeway idea floating around is to build another span, on the outside of the northbound bridge, the northbound bridge would become the middle bridge, and would be used for one lane traffic going north or south, depending on which rush hour is occuring. So the LRT would have its own lane on that bridge, I think that that would be a good scenario.

[NCB]

I have heard of a new plan, that would consist of a LRT connecting New Orleans to Slidell, and then running more of a heavy rail train from Slidell on to Covington.

I think this idea would work out well.

[tombarnes]

A report full of doom and gloom from CBS News....

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/18/...in1056304.shtml

Comments?

[NCB]

They did a story on this on 60 minutes. The Louisiana Governors Office sent a letter to CBS, asking them not to show it. The piece wasnt really that negative, though it was mostly shot in the Lower 9th Ward, which was one of the worst hit areas. It showed the opinion that many people have of New Orleans' future, and that was something I was expecting.

[TSmith]

I think it is outrageous to feature an interview with a scientist whose only solution to the city's problems is an "orderly withdrawl" of the city. We all know there are solutions to these problems. Dramatic predictions of 100 foot walls and Gulf waves crashing against the city from all directions is borderline insane.

How about restoring the coast? How about constructing real catergory 5 protection? How about at least TRYING to do these things? No efforts have been made to save the city. The efforts that have been made were wroght with imcompetence and faulty design. The report was ridiculous, and this scientist needs a good trip behind the woodshed.

[NCB]

I think it is outrageous to feature an interview with a scientist whose only solution to the city's problems is an "orderly withdrawl" of the city. We all know there are solutions to these problems. Dramatic predictions of 100 foot walls and Gulf waves crashing against the city from all directions is borderline insane.

How about restoring the coast? How about constructing real catergory 5 protection? How about at least TRYING to do these things? No efforts have been made to save the city. The efforts that have been made were wroght with imcompetence and faulty design. The report was ridiculous, and this scientist needs a good trip behind the woodshed.

I really liked what the city planning official said at the end of the story. If we really are this powerful and caring country that we say we are, then rebuilding New Orleans shouldn't even be thought about twice.

[tombarnes]

From Metropolis Magazine.....

http://www.metropolismag.com/cda/story.php?artid=1619

[Mith242]

It's sad that people are still questioning whether we should rebuild New Orleans or not. All I have to say is that if you're going to use the logic like this for New Orleans you have to use it elsewhere. Perhaps we shouldn't have rebuilt San Francisco after the earthquake. When a major earthquake strikes Los Angeles I guess we should just give up there too. For that matter I guess we should just give up anytime a tornado destroys a town in the Midwest. It can be our new motto, 'When mother nature strikes just give up'. But seriously I think the biggest problem is that the city was made to depend on a levee system that just wasn't made good enough for the task. Look at the Dutch, how much of their country is below sea level? Granted I guess they don't have to worry about hurricanes too much up there but I truely believe it is possible to build a levee system to protect the city. It just has to be done right this time.

[tombarnes]

I fully agree with you. I sincerely hope the new developments in New Orleans will maintain and respect the cultural and architectural traditions of the city. The question is, however, being asked. It is our job to refute the naysayers with viable ideas and reasons why the city must be rebuilt. As I have said elsewhere, I am gravely concerned that new developments in New Orleans may follow the path of expedience instead of the more proper course of rebuilding for the ages. While the local culture is very deep, it is still very fragile. It will take the efforts of everyone involved in the rebuilding to ensure that a rising tide of WalMarts and sheetrock palaces won't overtake the region.

[Mith242]

I fully agree with you. I sincerely hope the new developments in New Orleans will maintain and respect the cultural and architectural traditions of the city. The question is, however, being asked. It is our job to refute the naysayers with viable ideas and reasons why the city must be rebuilt. As I have said elsewhere, I am gravely concerned that new developments in New Orleans may follow the path of expedience instead of the more proper course of rebuilding for the ages. While the local culture is very deep, it is still very fragile. It will take the efforts of everyone involved in the rebuilding to ensure that a rising tide of WalMarts and sheetrock palaces won't overtake the region.

That certainly is a concern on how the rebuilding actually is done. It would be a shame to simply make it more like your average city and lose the unique culture there.

[NCB]

That certainly is a concern on how the rebuilding actually is done. It would be a shame to simply make it more like your average city and lose the unique culture there.

Most Definately.

I don't think that the culture and "feel" of New Orleans will be changed entirely, but there will be many changes.

First, the city is going to lose many if not most of it's poor residents. Many of these residents were a major part of the crime problem that has plaqued New Orleans for decades, and are simply better off gone, but many of these residents were also major contributors to the culture and heritage that make up New Orleans, and will be a sad loss. Replacing the poor residents may be rich people interested in owning a high rise condo on the river, on the lake, or in the middle of downtown.

That leads to what may be another major change, condos. Condos could be everywhere in the city, and that is where the major problem starts. A condo boom in New Orleans like the one that very well may start to occur in a few months, could make or break some of the city's culture and that wonderful feeling you get when you walk around New Orleans, that feeling that makes you think "this is no ordinary city."

But I dont see uptown, the French Quarter, Bywater, or any of the historic neighborhoods/areas of the city losing their culture, we simpy won't let that happen.

[Temeteron]

Just out of curiosity how many people are living in New Orleans right now? Have alot of people returned?

[NCB]

^There are an estimated 80,000 people living in the city, and an estimated 1.1 million people back in the metro area, down from 1.3 million.

[Mith242]

^There are an estimated 80,000 people living in the city, and an estimated 1.1 million people back in the metro area, down from 1.3 million.

I could be wrong on this but I've gotten the impression that areas just outside of New Orleans either weren't in too bad of shape or are getting back on their feet. I've also gotten the impression that the biggest problem is within New Orleans itself. Is this basically because the suburbs weren't as likly to be below sea level like some areas of New Orleans?

[NCB]

^That is mostly correct.

Many of the suburban parishes of New Orleans are getting back to normal much faster than the city.

This is why there are already 1.1 million people back in metro New Orleans, and why parish's like Saint Tammany, which I live in, have seen an extreme boom in population. Four months ago, the population of Saint Tammany Parish was 190,000, the population now is near 350,000. Here in Saint Tammany, cities north of I-12(Covington) are at or above sea level, and did not recieve much flooding. People are moving here simply because fo that reason. Even Slidell which was hit very hard with flooding, but is not in a bowl like New Orleans, has seen a major population gain. Jefferson Parish, the neighboring parish to Orleans, was very hard hit by flooding from Katrina, though the levees didn't break there, and the water receded very quickly. Jefferson Parish got power back many weeks before it even started to come on in parts of New Orleans, and many New Orleanians have temporarily or permanently relocated to Jeff. Parish.

However, Saint Bernard Parish, Plaquemines Parish, and many parts of Orleans Parish, to put it simply, are almost as dead as they were August 30th. Most of these residents are either in Houston, Jefferson Parish, or Saint Tammany Parish. Downtown, Uptown, Bywater, and the French Quarter in New Orleans are all coming back rapidly, but areas like Lakeview and New Orleans East are partially still without power, debris' are still everywhere, there are no jobs, schools etc..

Many people were not expecting metropolitan New Orleans to return so quickly. I remember listening to the radio the night after the hurricane, and hearing reports that everyone leaving Greater New Orleans could be the biggest outward migration in the U.S. since the Dust Bowl. I remember hearing population projections having the city of New Orleans with a population of 25K-50K and metro New Orleans having a population around 250K. These projections now have New Orleans with a population of 250K-350K and metro New Orleans with a population of 1.2+ million people. If Greater New Orleans and Greater Baton Rouge were to merge, we would most likely see a metropoitan area with a population of around 2.1 million people.

Mith, I am going to be making a thread specifically for Greater New Orleans. I will try my best to show what it is like here, whats going on in the cities, and how everything is coming together. I'll have maps to show exactly where people are headed, developments are occuring etc. Hopefully I will have a camera in the next few weeks, so I may be able to provide pictures of whats going on as well.

[tombarnes]

I suppose what scares me the most about the whole idea is the sneaking suspicion that such a merger would promote s p r a w l, not urban centers. Both New Orleans and Baton Rouge have good downtown cores which could be enhanced with greater density. The idea of combining the two cities suggests the promotion of endless subdivisions, parking lots and chain stores....all unsustainable development. Shouldn't rebuilding the urban cores of both cities be the priority? Connecting the two cities with a rapid rail project would help too.

[Mith242]

^That is mostly correct.

Many of the suburban parishes of New Orleans are getting back to normal much faster than the city.

This is why there are already 1.1 million people back in metro New Orleans, and why parish's like Saint Tammany, which I live in, have seen an extreme boom in population. Four months ago, the population of Saint Tammany Parish was 190,000, the population now is near 350,000. Here in Saint Tammany, cities north of I-12(Covington) are at or above sea level, and did not recieve much flooding. People are moving here simply because fo that reason. Even Slidell which was hit very hard with flooding, but is not in a bowl like New Orleans, has seen a major population gain. Jefferson Parish, the neighboring parish to Orleans, was very hard hit by flooding from Katrina, though the levees didn't break there, and the water receded very quickly. Jefferson Parish got power back many weeks before it even started to come on in parts of New Orleans, and many New Orleanians have temporarily or permanently relocated to Jeff. Parish.

However, Saint Bernard Parish, Plaquemines Parish, and many parts of Orleans Parish, to put it simply, are almost as dead as they were August 30th. Most of these residents are either in Houston, Jefferson Parish, or Saint Tammany Parish. Downtown, Uptown, Bywater, and the French Quarter in New Orleans are all coming back rapidly, but areas like Lakeview and New Orleans East are partially still without power, debris' are still everywhere, there are no jobs, schools etc..

Many people were not expecting metropolitan New Orleans to return so quickly. I remember listening to the radio the night after the hurricane, and hearing reports that everyone leaving Greater New Orleans could be the biggest outward migration in the U.S. since the Dust Bowl. I remember hearing population projections having the city of New Orleans with a population of 25K-50K and metro New Orleans having a population around 250K. These projections now have New Orleans with a population of 250K-350K and metro New Orleans with a population of 1.2+ million people. If Greater New Orleans and Greater Baton Rouge were to merge, we would most likely see a metropoitan area with a population of around 2.1 million people.

Mith, I am going to be making a thread specifically for Greater New Orleans. I will try my best to show what it is like here, whats going on in the cities, and how everything is coming together. I'll have maps to show exactly where people are headed, developments are occuring etc. Hopefully I will have a camera in the next few weeks, so I may be able to provide pictures of whats going on as well.

That sounds like a great idea NCB. Also feel free to ask anymore camera questions, I'm looking forward to seeing your pics.

[imaterry78247]

^That is mostly correct.

Many of the suburban parishes of New Orleans are getting back to normal much faster than the city.

This is why there are already 1.1 million people back in metro New Orleans, and why parish's like Saint Tammany, which I live in, have seen an extreme boom in population. Four months ago, the population of Saint Tammany Parish was 190,000, the population now is near 350,000. Here in Saint Tammany, cities north of I-12(Covington) are at or above sea level, and did not recieve much flooding. People are moving here simply because fo that reason. Even Slidell which was hit very hard with flooding, but is not in a bowl like New Orleans, has seen a major population gain. Jefferson Parish, the neighboring parish to Orleans, was very hard hit by flooding from Katrina, though the levees didn't break there, and the water receded very quickly. Jefferson Parish got power back many weeks before it even started to come on in parts of New Orleans, and many New Orleanians have temporarily or permanently relocated to Jeff. Parish.

However, Saint Bernard Parish, Plaquemines Parish, and many parts of Orleans Parish, to put it simply, are almost as dead as they were August 30th. Most of these residents are either in Houston, Jefferson Parish, or Saint Tammany Parish. Downtown, Uptown, Bywater, and the French Quarter in New Orleans are all coming back rapidly, but areas like Lakeview and New Orleans East are partially still without power, debris' are still everywhere, there are no jobs, schools etc..

Many people were not expecting metropolitan New Orleans to return so quickly. I remember listening to the radio the night after the hurricane, and hearing reports that everyone leaving Greater New Orleans could be the biggest outward migration in the U.S. since the Dust Bowl. I remember hearing population projections having the city of New Orleans with a population of 25K-50K and metro New Orleans having a population around 250K. These projections now have New Orleans with a population of 250K-350K and metro New Orleans with a population of 1.2+ million people. If Greater New Orleans and Greater Baton Rouge were to merge, we would most likely see a metropoitan area with a population of around 2.1 million people.

Mith, I am going to be making a thread specifically for Greater New Orleans. I will try my best to show what it is like here, whats going on in the cities, and how everything is coming together. I'll have maps to show exactly where people are headed, developments are occuring etc. Hopefully I will have a camera in the next few weeks, so I may be able to provide pictures of whats going on as well.

Lets merge the N.O. and B.R.. I doubt that the area would become urban sprawl but a unique metro area. Get the train runnings. This area cannot continue to have backward thinking

[NCB]

Lets merge the N.O. and B.R.. I doubt that the area would become urban sprawl but a unique metro area.

With the right leadership, BR and NOLA could definately become a great metro area. But it could just as easily go downhill with the wrong leadership.

[NCB]

I suppose what scares me the most about the whole idea is the sneaking suspicion that such a merger would promote s p r a w l, not urban centers. Both New Orleans and Baton Rouge have good downtown cores which could be enhanced with greater density. The idea of combining the two cities suggests the promotion of endless subdivisionst, parking lots and chain stores....all unsustainable development. Shouldn't rebuilding the urban cores of both cities be the priority? Connecting the two cities with a rapid rail project would help too.

This is very true. But I still believe that if the two metro's were to merge, New Orleans and Baton Rouge would be the urban centers, with definated urbanism inbetween, not just endless sprawl and what now seems to be a popular term, "architrash."